Political Crossfire Forums

Bill Brasky · Joined: 04 Oct 2006 Posts: 37

CNN just made mention of a legislative proposal to arm school employees as a deterrent to school shottings. It has been asuccessful tool at preventing terrorism in Israel, But will it be a detterent against brutal murder/suicides in the schools???? What are your thoughts?

lilwolf · Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 12491 Location: idaho

If the person is legally qualified to carry then I have no problem with it.
Every school should have metal detectors in the entries and scanners if nothnig else.

Get the teacher good training and leave the option to them. I don't think it should be forced on the teacher though.

You got some people that are scared sh***** of guns and think that the gun is going to magically come alive and start shooting people.

I support it ...by choice of the person.

micfranklin · Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:05 pm Post subject:

I only voted "No" because it shouldn't be forced on teachers or principals. Don't get me wrong, an armed teacher could fight off armed intruders, but they shouldn't be forced to have weapons just as much as we shouldn't force other people to give up their weapons. If they do want one, then let them have one.

Plus, also, any person already in the school could also take said weapon and use it against everyone and cause another school shooting.

Bill Brasky · Joined: 04 Oct 2006 Posts: 37

micfranklin wrote: I only voted "No" because it shouldn't be forced on teachers or principals. Don't get me wrong, an armed teacher could fight off armed intruders, but they shouldn't be forced to have weapons just as much as we shouldn't force other people to give up their weapons. If they do want one, then let them have one.

Plus, also, any person already in the school could also take said weapon and use it against everyone and cause another school shooting.

I agree forcing is wrong, But the legislation only calls for the issuance of permits, and the policies to allow these weapons in school. There has been no suggestion of making it mandatory.

micfranklin · Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:15 pm Post subject:

Bill Brasky wrote: micfranklin wrote: I only voted "No" because it shouldn't be forced on teachers or principals. Don't get me wrong, an armed teacher could fight off armed intruders, but they shouldn't be forced to have weapons just as much as we shouldn't force other people to give up their weapons. If they do want one, then let them have one.

Plus, also, any person already in the school could also take said weapon and use it against everyone and cause another school shooting.

I agree forcing is wrong, But the legislation only calls for the issuance of permits, and the policies to allow these weapons in school. There has been no suggestion of making it mandatory.

Maybe they should have shooting ranges on school grounds. No joke, I'm being serious.

Bill Brasky · Joined: 04 Oct 2006 Posts: 37

micfranklin wrote: Bill Brasky wrote: micfranklin wrote: I only voted "No" because it shouldn't be forced on teachers or principals. Don't get me wrong, an armed teacher could fight off armed intruders, but they shouldn't be forced to have weapons just as much as we shouldn't force other people to give up their weapons. If they do want one, then let them have one.

Plus, also, any person already in the school could also take said weapon and use it against everyone and cause another school shooting.

I agree forcing is wrong, But the legislation only calls for the issuance of permits, and the policies to allow these weapons in school. There has been no suggestion of making it mandatory.

Maybe they should have shooting ranges on school grounds. No joke, I'm being serious.

Some schools do. I went to a high school that had one in the basement, used for JROTC training. I deffinitely think that if teacher's are allowed this option, some serious training infrastucture needs to be in place. Not only do they need to be trained in the usage of the weapon, but also in target identification(Due to the large numer of bystanders) as well as Use of force/shoot or no shoot scenarios.

MoscowMatt · Joined: 16 Sep 2005 Posts: 1566 Location: UK / Hungary

I voted no. A much safer option would simply be to install metal detectors on all schools.

Bill Brasky · Joined: 04 Oct 2006 Posts: 37

MoscowMatt wrote: I voted no. A much safer option would simply be to install metal detectors on all schools.

Metal detectors act as a definite psychological detterent, However, the high volume of students in most american schools precludes their functionality in most cases(for obvious logistical reasons).

superskippy · Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 8245 Location: Petah Tikva

I think it is tricky, the situation is very different in Israel than in America. We have a clear defined enemy and numerous attempts every year, and almost every teacher that is armed has served for 3 years in the armed forces. However it has worked before and if it could be succesfully implimented in America without great error than perhaps it could be useful. For example we have had terrorists or gunman make advances on schools only to be killed by the teachers inside or had them flee after attempting to enter the schools and being repelled with gunfire.

micfranklin · Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:57 pm Post subject:

MoscowMatt wrote: I voted no. A much safer option would simply be to install metal detectors on all schools.

Nah, that'd mean it'd take forever for anybody to get into school, even the staff. And plus, there's other ways people can get into or out of a school, like through the windows or the vents or even the sewers.

And would you really want a school that looks like airport security?

MoscowMatt · Joined: 16 Sep 2005 Posts: 1566 Location: UK / Hungary

micfranklin wrote: MoscowMatt wrote: I voted no. A much safer option would simply be to install metal detectors on all schools.

Nah, that'd mean it'd take forever for anybody to get into school, even the staff. And plus, there's other ways people can get into or out of a school, like through the windows or the vents or even the sewers.

And would you really want a school that looks like airport security?

Better that than one that looks like a morgue after another killing spree!

Arming teachers will not work as the kids greatly outnumber them so it would be impossible to protect them unless you confine them to the class room all day.

micfranklin · Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:08 pm Post subject:

MoscowMatt wrote: micfranklin wrote: MoscowMatt wrote: I voted no. A much safer option would simply be to install metal detectors on all schools.

Nah, that'd mean it'd take forever for anybody to get into school, even the staff. And plus, there's other ways people can get into or out of a school, like through the windows or the vents or even the sewers.

And would you really want a school that looks like airport security?

Better that than one that looks like a morgue after another killing spree!

Arming teachers will not work as the kids greatly outnumber them so it would be impossible to protect them unless you confine them to the class room all day.

Or every teacher who owns a gun could shoot an armed intruder down. Think about it: a teacher is teaching class and an armed intruder breaks down the door and prepares to attack. Before he or she can, the teacher shoots him and thus a classroom of kids is saved.

Let's not forget that some kids also happen to bring weapons of their own to school.

perdidochas · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 15326 Location: Florida

MoscowMatt wrote: I voted no. A much safer option would simply be to install metal detectors on all schools.

So how do you want to do it? A metal detector at each door or just each entrance (i.e not on exit doors)? Who's going to man each detector? What about schools (like my wife's) that has 15 portable classrooms (i.e. trailers out back)? Should each portable have it's own metal detector, or should they put them in a barbed wire perimeter (including fenced in roof) with a single detector?

All said, it's not a big deal. Not many kids are killed in school. The drive to and from school is much more dangerous.

micfranklin · Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:51 pm Post subject:

perdidochas wrote: MoscowMatt wrote: I voted no. A much safer option would simply be to install metal detectors on all schools.

So how do you want to do it? A metal detector at each door or just each entrance (i.e not on exit doors)? Who's going to man each detector? What about schools (like my wife's) that has 15 portable classrooms (i.e. trailers out back)? Should each portable have it's own metal detector, or should they put them in a barbed wire perimeter (including fenced in roof) with a single detector?

All said, it's not a big deal. Not many kids are killed in school. The drive to and from school is much more dangerous.

Also, as I've said earlier there are other ways to get into a school besides the doors i.e. windows. And plus, metal detectors can malfunction and go haywire just like any other machine.

CraziiLib2010 · Joined: 05 Oct 2006 Posts: 10

The only is "HELL NO ARE YOU CRAZY?!??!" I know I was afraid of some of my teachers to begin with but add a handgun and I wouldn't show up. There is a reason they invented metel dectors and school cops. There is no reason what so ever for anyone except for lawenforcement to haave a firearm anywhere near a school.

What would happen if a student went for a teachers gun? Keep them somewhere else? where? and if somewhere else what if a student finds/steals it?

We need to keep guns out of the hands of our youth and one more place where even the temptation was to take it would be one to many.

Ragnar Danneskjold · Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 2628 Location: Mulligan's Valley

add a link, or this will be Locked.

NovaPacifica · Joined: 04 Oct 2006 Posts: 48 Location: United States

No, this is why we have resource officers at our school (we have about 2 cops always on patrol and 2 near by for backup or something). Also who insures us that a teacher does not go insane and start shooting everyone or even worse that a student somehow steals the firearm.

Yeah, Ill take my chances with the no firearms...

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Ragnar Danneskjöld wrote: add a link, or this will be Locked.

I believe he is talking about this Article.

~~~~~

Bill Brasky wrote: MoscowMatt wrote: I voted no. A much safer option would simply be to install metal detectors on all schools.

Metal detectors act as a definite psychological detterent, However, the high volume of students in most american schools precludes their functionality in most cases(for obvious logistical reasons).

Very true with the idea of metal detectors, our high school itself has over 1500 students and about 100 different doors someone can enter. It is a very open campus layout and it would cost lots of money to place the metal detectors. Also .. i mean it be a pain to get into school. Watch .. BEEB!, Metal Ring Binder ... BEEB! ... etc.

Alyssa M. · Joined: 05 Oct 2006 Posts: 57 Location: Montana

I would say no, because of the reason it's probably really stressful being a teacher and sometimes people do dumb things when aggravated. Not saying anyone would do this I'm just saying it could happen. Also there's the fact of a student getting a hold of it. That would probably lead to even more school shootings for being able to get access to such weapons could be endangering the student body even more.

CountryGuy · Joined: 04 Feb 2006 Posts: 1018 Location: Pennsylvania

While I'm a proponent of gun ownership rights, I think the concept of giving teachers guns is asinine. Has anyone considered the miniscule # of school shooting events nationwide, vs. the risk that having a weapon in each classroom (the only way such a plan MIGHT be effective) would entail?

I'm not saying the author of this bill doesn't have his heart in the right place but... Can we think things out a bit first?

NovaPacifica · Joined: 04 Oct 2006 Posts: 48 Location: United States

CountryGuy wrote: While I'm a proponent of gun ownership rights, I think the concept of giving teachers guns is asinine. Has anyone considered the miniscule # of school shooting events nationwide, vs. the risk that having a weapon in each classroom (the only way such a plan MIGHT be effective) would entail?

I'm not saying the author of this bill doesn't have his heart in the right place but... Can we think things out a bit first?

School Shootings vs Non-School Shootings
[It just seems like their has been alot due to the latest events and how they all happened in a short period of time]

is like...

Plane Crash vs How Many Planes Are In The Air Daily