Political Crossfire Forums

[Richard Owl Mirror]

'Monster' fossil find in Arctic
Quote: Norwegian scientists have discovered a "treasure trove" of fossils belonging to giant sea reptiles that roamed the seas at the time of the dinosaurs.

The 150 million-year-old fossils were uncovered on the Arctic island chain of Svalbard - about halfway between Norway and the North Pole.

The finds belong to two groups of extinct marine reptiles - the plesiosaurs and the ichthyosaurs.

One skeleton has been nicknamed The Monster because of its enormous size.

~snip~

~@~

I've always been interested in how Religions explain the vast difference between their 'Word of God' and the evidence to the contrary regarding life on earth and the time-line of such life.

In my opinion, you can't have a spontaneous creation alongside evolution.

Did GOD create life with evolution in mind ?
Are the '6 days' in reality a day equals one hundred million years?

[cap'n queasy]

I wonder how come whenever fossils are found there are thousands of dead animals is one place, buried in mud?

The conditions needed for fossilization are exceedly rare. How many times do large masses of animals die in the same place and immediately get completely covered with sediment before they completely decompose?

The funny thing is nearly all fossils are found in mass deposits like this, which exist all over the world.

How do you explain that?

[THEXRATED]

cap'n queasy wrote: I wonder how come whenever fossils are found there are thousands of dead animals is one place, buried in mud?

The conditions needed for fossilization are exceedly rare. How many times do large masses of animals die in the same place and immediately get completely covered with sediment before they completely decompose?

The funny thing is nearly all fossils are found in mass deposits like this, which exist all over the world.

How do you explain that?

No offense, but that pretty basic stuff that is explained by paleontologists quite well. One important factor is mass extinction events - there are 5 major events that can be identified easily albeit the actual cause for some events is still under a scientific debate.

But then again, you believe that earth is only 6000,or so years old, right? So kinda pointless to argue this, as it has been before.

[cap'n queasy]

Mass extinctions did not cause piles of tens of thousands of dead animals to die all in the same spot at the same time and instantly buried all in the same spot.

They supposedly happened over hundreds of thousands of years, which is considered a short period time period, geologically.

All I know is there is a whole heck of a lot of animal skeletons buried in what used to be mud at the bottom of the ocean.

Looks like the results of a global flood to me.

But it is pointless to argue. :-D I agree with that.

[cap'n queasy]

There are many problems with the uniformitarian worldview.

I think catastrophism is a much better explanation for the evidence.

[Wizard From Oz]

Quote: Mass extinctions did not cause piles of tens of thousands of dead animals to die all in the same spot at the same time and instantly buried all in the same spot.

They supposedly happened over hundreds of thousands of years, which is considered a short period time period, geologically.


Umm coughs gently - Burgess Shale, considered to be the second richest fossil bed found on the planet was created in about 3 minutes :)

[cap'n queasy]

MG1962 wrote: Quote: Mass extinctions did not cause piles of tens of thousands of dead animals to die all in the same spot at the same time and instantly buried all in the same spot.

They supposedly happened over hundreds of thousands of years, which is considered a short period time period, geologically.


Umm coughs gently - Burgess Shale, considered to be the second richest fossil bed found on the planet was created in about 3 minutes :)

Sounds like a catastrophe, not a mass die-off because of environmental changes to me.

[THEXRATED]

cap'n queasy wrote: MG1962 wrote: Quote: Mass extinctions did not cause piles of tens of thousands of dead animals to die all in the same spot at the same time and instantly buried all in the same spot.

They supposedly happened over hundreds of thousands of years, which is considered a short period time period, geologically.


Umm coughs gently - Burgess Shale, considered to be the second richest fossil bed found on the planet was created in about 3 minutes :)

Sounds like a catastrophe, not a mass die-off because of environmental changes to me.

And catastrophes are not mass extinction event? Like when a huge meteor crashes the earth?

[Wizard From Oz]

Quote: Sounds like a catastrophe, not a mass die-off because of environmental changes to me.

Exactly - the point being you dont need mass extinctions and such to create large bone beds - Even today large numbers of animals can be trapped around drying water holes - and die en mass

[feederband]

Whatever happen to the creation and evolution forum anyway...?

[feederband]

cap'n queasy wrote: I wonder how come whenever fossils are found there are thousands of dead animals is one place, buried in mud?



One thing for sure there is never any human fossils along with them...And that can only mean one thing...We weren't around yet...

[toddytodd]

cap'n queasy wrote: I wonder how come whenever fossils are found there are thousands of dead animals is one place, buried in mud?

The conditions needed for fossilization are exceedly rare. How many times do large masses of animals die in the same place and immediately get completely covered with sediment before they completely decompose?

The funny thing is nearly all fossils are found in mass deposits like this, which exist all over the world.

How do you explain that?

Fossils found in what used to be a river bed can be a result of a flash flood (which happens all the time). Animals also travel to instinctual areas in a last ditch effort for water. These areas should hold water in the dry season which, at times, are dry. The animals die out of exhaustion. Later, rains come and flash floods cover the remains. Sometimes, the area holds water and noxious gas, which suffocate or affixiate the animals. The possibilities are almost endless. Many animals lived near water or wet areas. Rains cause floods, which many times, drowned the animals, creating fossils. Obviously this process has happened a lot, as is evidence rather large, localized areas of fossils. Many animals are killed by predation at water holes. Many more are drowned in water while trying to migrate. Anyone who has ever seen any African documentary can tell you this.
If this were a huge, worldly flood, firstly the water would be so supersaturated, that any air breathing creature left alive would drown. Secondly, there would be fossils of animals, small and large, preserved everywhere (like many are in what paleontologists consider dried water beds), as every place would be considered a 'mud hole' or 'dried water bed'. That is, obviously, not the case. Lastly, we all know the continents move and have been moving for million (for the scientifically minded) or thousand (for the religiously minded) years. This means that were water isn't now, there once was water, regardless if it was a sea, ocean, lake, river, stream, etc. These are only a couple of examples that are commonly know. The professionals who study this I am sure would have more examples you could choose from.

[toddytodd]

Richard Owl Mirror wrote: 'Monster' fossil find in Arctic
Quote: Norwegian scientists have discovered a "treasure trove" of fossils belonging to giant sea reptiles that roamed the seas at the time of the dinosaurs.

The 150 million-year-old fossils were uncovered on the Arctic island chain of Svalbard - about halfway between Norway and the North Pole.

The finds belong to two groups of extinct marine reptiles - the plesiosaurs and the ichthyosaurs.

One skeleton has been nicknamed The Monster because of its enormous size.

~snip~

~@~

I've always been interested in how Religions explain the vast difference between their 'Word of God' and the evidence to the contrary regarding life on earth and the time-line of such life.

In my opinion, you can't have a spontaneous creation alongside evolution.

Did GOD create life with evolution in mind ?
Are the '6 days' in reality a day equals one hundred million years?

As a christian, I would even consider the Biblical story of creation one of two ways: 1) God told the writer how it happened, but he couldn't understand it fully, so wrote it down the best he could considering his lack of education or understanding, or 2) it was a (feeble) attempt to make sense of something the writer didn't understand (which was, the natural world). This might explain why dinosaurs were never mentioned (or added into or later translated into) the modern bible.
The bible ins't a science book. When one looks for science in the bible, the available options are few and far between. I wouldn't expect to see much (if anything at all) that is scientifically sound (at least in the area of plate tectonics, biology or evolution) because it wasn't known of at the time the Bible was written.

[Enoch]

Richard Owl Mirror wrote: 'Monster' fossil find in Arctic
Quote: Norwegian scientists have discovered a "treasure trove" of fossils belonging to giant sea reptiles that roamed the seas at the time of the dinosaurs.

The 150 million-year-old fossils were uncovered on the Arctic island chain of Svalbard - about halfway between Norway and the North Pole.

The finds belong to two groups of extinct marine reptiles - the plesiosaurs and the ichthyosaurs.

One skeleton has been nicknamed The Monster because of its enormous size.

~snip~

~@~

I've always been interested in how Religions explain the vast difference between their 'Word of God' and the evidence to the contrary regarding life on earth and the time-line of such life.

In my opinion, you can't have a spontaneous creation alongside evolution.

Did GOD create life with evolution in mind ?
Are the '6 days' in reality a day equals one hundred million years? I think the problem comes from those who are unable to believe that creation and evolution can work together. Just because a diety created the world does not mean he/she/it created the world as we know it.

Speaking from my own religious viewpoint, the God and Goddess created the world, and then allowed evolution to take its course.

[toddytodd]

Enoch wrote: Richard Owl Mirror wrote: 'Monster' fossil find in Arctic
Quote: Norwegian scientists have discovered a "treasure trove" of fossils belonging to giant sea reptiles that roamed the seas at the time of the dinosaurs.

The 150 million-year-old fossils were uncovered on the Arctic island chain of Svalbard - about halfway between Norway and the North Pole.

The finds belong to two groups of extinct marine reptiles - the plesiosaurs and the ichthyosaurs.

One skeleton has been nicknamed The Monster because of its enormous size.

~snip~

~@~

I've always been interested in how Religions explain the vast difference between their 'Word of God' and the evidence to the contrary regarding life on earth and the time-line of such life.

In my opinion, you can't have a spontaneous creation alongside evolution.

Did GOD create life with evolution in mind ?
Are the '6 days' in reality a day equals one hundred million years? I think the problem comes from those who are unable to believe that creation and evolution can work together. Just because a diety created the world does not mean he/she/it created the world as we know it.

Speaking from my own religious viewpoint, the God and Goddess created the world, and then allowed evolution to take its course.

I always wondered why, if people believe in a being so powerful that it can create all that is, why then would they not believe this same being (supposedly all powerful) would have the ability to use evolution to change its own creation? Would seem that people are limiting this beings ability by their own understanding of things....

[Wizard From Oz]

Quote: I always wondered why, if people believe in a being so powerful that it can create all that is, why then would they not believe this same being (supposedly all powerful) would have the ability to use evolution to change its own creation? Would seem that people are limiting this beings ability by their own understanding of things....

Yeah I agree - one of the reasons I have no trouble balancing my faith with what I learn from science

[toddytodd]

MG1962 wrote: Quote: I always wondered why, if people believe in a being so powerful that it can create all that is, why then would they not believe this same being (supposedly all powerful) would have the ability to use evolution to change its own creation? Would seem that people are limiting this beings ability by their own understanding of things....

Yeah I agree - one of the reasons I have no trouble balancing my faith with what I learn from science

I had that problem for a while as well, then just decided not to think about it so much. I know what I know from science, I learn new things from science. I believe what I believe from my understanding of science plus God so that's all I need.

[cap'n queasy]

MG1962 wrote: Quote: Sounds like a catastrophe, not a mass die-off because of environmental changes to me.

Exactly - the point being you dont need mass extinctions and such to create large bone beds - Even today large numbers of animals can be trapped around drying water holes - and die en mass

Not in anywhere near the numbers that are in some of these deposits are found in. Some of them cover hundreds of square miles and contain millions upon millions of individuals.

[feederband]

cap'n queasy wrote: MG1962 wrote: Quote: Sounds like a catastrophe, not a mass die-off because of environmental changes to me.

Exactly - the point being you dont need mass extinctions and such to create large bone beds - Even today large numbers of animals can be trapped around drying water holes - and die en mass

Not in anywhere near the numbers that are in some of these deposits are found in. Some of them cover hundreds of square miles and contain millions upon millions of individuals.

There were alot more creatures and more concentrated than now..No humans to control populations...

Cap'n How come no human fossils found with dino fossils?

[perdidochas]

Richard Owl Mirror wrote: 'Monster' fossil find in Arctic
Quote: Norwegian scientists have discovered a "treasure trove" of fossils belonging to giant sea reptiles that roamed the seas at the time of the dinosaurs.

The 150 million-year-old fossils were uncovered on the Arctic island chain of Svalbard - about halfway between Norway and the North Pole.

The finds belong to two groups of extinct marine reptiles - the plesiosaurs and the ichthyosaurs.

One skeleton has been nicknamed The Monster because of its enormous size.

~snip~

~@~

I've always been interested in how Religions explain the vast difference between their 'Word of God' and the evidence to the contrary regarding life on earth and the time-line of such life.

In my opinion, you can't have a spontaneous creation alongside evolution.

Did GOD create life with evolution in mind ?
Are the '6 days' in reality a day equals one hundred million years?

Only God knows the truth. Personally, I believe that God created the universe and it's physical laws. The rest was inevitable due to that. Evolution is one of God's methods of creation.

Genesis, IMHO, is a good explanation of the creation of the universe for barbaric nomads. It's a pretty good explanation for kids, also. It's just not (and never was meant as) a scientific explanation.