Political Crossfire Forums

Rankor and Pissing · Joined: 04 Mar 2006 Posts: 9491

http://www.mapsofwar.com/ind/imperial-history.html

Quite a nice little flash representation of 5 thousand years of history condensed into about 2 minutes. It shows that Baghdad and Israel have literally been conquored by almost everyone - or should I say - the major powers of the times.

It seems that this part of the world has seen war on a semi-constant basis for 5 thousand years (give or take). That's quite a bit of time for people to be dying over the same plot of sand. Why would it change today? I don't think it does, nor will it in the future.

The one thing that does come to mind however, is historically, the conquored only recently had any sort of borders or independence. Could it be that they just don't know what to do with freedom if they had it?

bigstick61 · Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:52 am Post subject:

Heck, even in the Bible it says that there will be war there until the end of times. Peace in the ME will always elude those who seek it, even if the ME was left to its own devices. It's their culture.

Deus · Joined: 21 Sep 2005 Posts: 2492 Location: Aalesund

bigstick61 wrote: Heck, even in the Bible it says that there will be war there until the end of times. Peace in the ME will always elude those who seek it, even if the ME was left to its own devices. It's their culture.

no its not

bigstick61 · Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:42 am Post subject:

That's why they've been constantly fighting each other over the last few millenia. Because it has nothing at all to do with their culture. [/sarcasm]

Deus · Joined: 21 Sep 2005 Posts: 2492 Location: Aalesund

bigstick61 wrote: That's why they've been constantly fighting each other over the last few millenia. Because it has nothing at all to do with their culture. [/sarcasm]

What im going to say may shock you, so you should sit down.

are you ready? good.

Culture withing a region as large as the middle east, is not homogenus, even if its the same.

There are actually ....hold on to yer buts.....many more factors the culture.

Got that?

bigstick61 · Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:41 pm Post subject:

There is a general culture in the ME. It is a tribal one, and that has been the source of much of the conflict there, the warring between tribes. There are many cultures, but they all bear certain similarities.

datura · Joined: 06 Oct 2006 Posts: 14

The world needs wars, b unbalanced without.

David Kelly · Joined: 14 Jun 2006 Posts: 451 Location: Kissimmee, FL

datura wrote: The world needs wars, b unbalanced without.

Not really, one day some unfortunate alien race will come across us and we'll all stop fighting each other and slaughter them.
On the other hand, if that race didn't have any records of other races we'd start fighting each other once more, but we'd have a short peace. :lol:

Deus · Joined: 21 Sep 2005 Posts: 2492 Location: Aalesund

bigstick61 wrote: There is a general culture in the ME. It is a tribal one, and that has been the source of much of the conflict there, the warring between tribes. There are many cultures, but they all bear certain similarities.

Tell me how warring tribes got anything todo with todays conflicts in me.

DSwain · Joined: 09 Jun 2006 Posts: 3552

Great site, thanks

NAB · Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:22 pm Post subject:

Good link. Btw, Mongols ftw. They got to use the most amount of color.

bigstick61 · Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:26 pm Post subject:

Because most of today's conflicts in the ME are a result of tribal differences, many rooted hundreds or even thousands of years back. The conflicts between Sunnis and Shiites has been ongoing for hundreds of years. Many people are more loyal to their tribal identity than to their country, or other group, and many have a hatred for other tribes.

The_Truth · Joined: 06 Oct 2006 Posts: 11 Location: Orlando

You can argue that any modern country has had at least 5 previous "owners", but you don't see the tribes of Germania fighting each other today. The problem in the Middle East is pride, the Arab world is too proud to bend for anyone. The Arabs say that Palestine is all theirs because it was theirs for centuries, however, who owned it before them? The Romans. Can the Italians claim Palestine then? Of course not. Palestine was part of the Ottoman Empire which collapsed after WWI and England was given control over the area. When the U.N. divided the aread into modern day borders the Arabs couldn't accept that the Jews received a piece of land the size or Vermont. They cannot accept the fact that Jews now reside there. Rather, they blow up buses full of children going to school.

So who has claim? If we want to accept the code of war and conquest then the borders that were drawn by the U.N. should be accepted. If we are not to accept the code of war and conquest then the Arabs who conquered this land centuries ago also have no claim.

johnshotme · Joined: 04 Sep 2006 Posts: 783 Location: Leesburg, Florida

Deus wrote: bigstick61 wrote: Heck, even in the Bible it says that there will be war there until the end of times. Peace in the ME will always elude those who seek it, even if the ME was left to its own devices. It's their culture.

no its not

Yeah they kill for fun for thousands of years, it has nothing to do with the culture of that region :roll:

Good one! :roll:

johnshotme · Joined: 04 Sep 2006 Posts: 783 Location: Leesburg, Florida

bigstick61 wrote: Because most of today's conflicts in the ME are a result of tribal differences, many rooted hundreds or even thousands of years back. The conflicts between Sunnis and Shiites has been ongoing for hundreds of years. Many people are more loyal to their tribal identity than to their country, or other group, and many have a hatred for other tribes.

Sad but true and there are no signs of this changing. This is a leading cause of all the violence there.

NovaPacifica · Joined: 04 Oct 2006 Posts: 48 Location: United States

My 4 Main Reasons Why Wars Start:

A. Political Power
B. Religious Conflict (Racism would be included)
C. Culture Conflict (Hint, to the constant Genocide [Also part of Religious Conflict)
D. Domination (Who doesnt want to dominate the world?)

foadi · Joined: 09 Nov 2005 Posts: 13640 Location: bangkok thailand

Rankor and Pissing wrote: The one thing that does come to mind however, is historically, the conquored only recently had any sort of borders or independence. Could it be that they just don't know what to do with freedom if they had it?
Maybe, but you have to remember that the borders that exist today are mostly artificial and aren't based on anything. If the middle east is to have true borders then it needs to be broken up into several thousand city-states.

NAB · Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 2:45 pm Post subject:

NovaPacifica wrote: My 4 Main Reasons Why Wars Start:

A. Political Power
B. Religious Conflict (Racism would be included)
C. Culture Conflict (Hint, to the constant Genocide [Also part of Religious Conflict)
D. Domination (Who doesnt want to dominate the world?)

I'd add a fifth to that, that might find it's way into Domination category.

E.Control of a Resource/Land (ie waterways, minerals, natural topography, etc.)

NovaPacifica · Joined: 04 Oct 2006 Posts: 48 Location: United States

NAB wrote: NovaPacifica wrote: My 4 Main Reasons Why Wars Start:

A. Political Power
B. Religious Conflict (Racism would be included)
C. Culture Conflict (Hint, to the constant Genocide [Also part of Religious Conflict)
D. Domination (Who doesnt want to dominate the world?)

I'd add a fifth to that, that might find it's way into Domination category.

E.Control of a Resource/Land (ie waterways, minerals, natural topography, etc.)

True, I guess it can go into Domination ... its a broad word since minerals is one of the most fought after resources. (aka oil)

Ragnar Danneskjold · Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 2628 Location: Mulligan's Valley

Neat Map!