Political Crossfire Forums

[lovebush]

:rotf: ok so this guy claims to be a Christian, so before anyone jumps on the "see Christians are just as dangerous as muslims, bandwagon" lets note that this guy didnt slit any ones throat, fly the plane into a building and he apologized. but Im sure the moral equivalence crowd will still say it was just as evil.

[ersoy]

These are the recent polls about Turkish peoples' reaction about Pope's last speech regarding Islam and Mohamed:

CNN-Turk poll, total participants; 1045

Q: Do Pope's words about islam reflect his personal views or the common view of islam in the west?

Common view: 973 votes (85%)

His personal views: 172 votes (15%)

Q:What do you think about Pope's recent words about Islam:

65,87 % 83 Exaggerated, he acts like a bigot
22,22 % 28 He has spoken like a politician rather than a religious person
8,73 % 11 He was right
3,17 % 4 I do not care/have no idea (%5,45)

Q:How do you feel about Popes recent words about Islam

An unfortunate speech : (5.45)
An exaggeration : (%77.82)
A useless speech : (%8,56)
It is a normal speech : (%8.17)

What's interesting here is almost 10 % of Turkish population think that he was actually right!

[lovebush]

ersoy wrote:

What's interesting here is almost 10 % of Turkish population think that he was actually right!

So only 10% read history and watch the news? that isnt just interesting, thats amazing! How did Constantinople, become Istanbul? Is not forced conversion by the sword , evil? How many nations that are now Muslim, became Muslim by peaceful means? perhaps our idea of what is evil is different than yours. but when the Pope calls for peaceful dialog about the issue, the Muslim world erupts in violence in response to the accusation that they are violent. Muslims have violently rioted over cartoons, beauty queens, things people have said and written, yet they are silent about the genocide in Darfur, silent when bombs blow up hotels in Bali, silent when school children are slaughtered in Beslan and the only shouting in the streets when Muslims fly planes into buildings, are shouts of joy and jubilation at the deaths of thousands of innocents. these to most in the west are evil things. perhaps if we could agree on what evil is, we( Muslims and Christians and thous of all faiths and no faith) could work together to stop it.

[ersoy]

OK. Not again. Keep up the good work for starting Armageddon. You do not have anything but stereotypes.

[elephas]

lovebush wrote:
So only 10% read history and watch the news? that isnt just interesting, thats amazing! How did Constantinople, become Istanbul?
ah, here we go. Shall we start with more recent events such as the fate of American Indians (a.k.a. native Americans), smallpox, booze and such? Shall we throw the slavery issue into this discussion too? gez.

[ersoy]

Not me. I'm tired of those useless garbage. We should seek for better understanding between cultures and try not to make generalizations. Each person is another person and has his/her own story. No word on smallpox blankets promise...Actually I do not care , I spent some time in the US (before 9/11) and I like American people. They are honest and not hypocrites at all .It is not good to see how things have changed b/o a few terrorists and some oil suckers.

[lovebush]

ersoy wrote: OK. Not again. Keep up the good work for starting Armageddon. You do not have anything but stereotypes.

Quote: there you go, rather than agree that these things are evil, you blame me/us for Armageddon.

ster‧e‧o‧type  /ˈstɛriəˌtaɪp, ˈstɪər-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ster-ee-uh-tahyp, steer-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, -typed, -typ‧ing.


4. Sociology. a simplified and standardized conception or image invested with special meaning and held in common by members of a group: The cowboy and Indian are American stereotypes.
–verb (used with object) 5. to make a stereotype of.
6. to characterize or regard as a stereotype: The actor has been stereotyped as a villain.
7. to give a fixed form to.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: 1790–1800; stereo- + -type]

—Related forms
ster‧e‧o‧typ‧er, ster‧e‧o‧typ‧ist, noun
ster‧e‧o‧typ‧ic /ˌstɛriəˈtɪpɪk, ˌstɪər-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ster-ee-uh-tip-ik, steer-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation, ster‧e‧o‧typ‧i‧cal, adjective


—Synonyms 6. categorize, type, identify.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

please note it dosnt say untrue.

[ersoy]

Samples for some stereotypic attitudes:
Talking about Constantinople whenever getting angry with a Turk,

Samples for biased attitudes: Thinking they did not care about the innocent children in Beslan (was the most disgusting event I have ever heard and seen). Thinking they were not sorry for 9!11 .Thinking christians are the only ones who suffer from islamic fundamentalism etc...

Sorry I was not born in the U.S.A.

[lovebush]

ersoy wrote: Samples for some stereotypic attitudes:
Talking about Constantinople whenever getting angry with a Turk,

Samples for biased attitudes: Thinking they did not care about the innocent children in Beslan (was the most disgusting event I have ever heard and seen). Thinking they were not sorry for 9!11 .Thinking christians are the only ones who suffer from islamic fundamentalism etc...

Sorry I was not born in the U.S.A.

If I seem angry, let me assure you Im not. I am biased against some Muslims for the way many have reacted to the events I listed, but let me be clear. What bothers me most is how Muslim violence effects Muslims! Muslims are killing more Muslims than anyone else! the only reason I bring up Constantinople, was to demonstrate that Islam was spread predominantly by force. that is probably something you know. but many others in the west dont realise.

[ersoy]

They grew up their children in religious schools teaching them the only book they wi,ll ever need for the rest of their lives is Koran. Those children are naturally destined to live in misery, grew anger against western civilization, or simply civilization. I think instead of grewing more anger and hate we should do something for that. There most be a logical alternative for that vicious circle which is secularism and reformation in Islam. Turkey is t6he best sample for it. Instead of talking about Constantinople, we should work on that. But if the aim is having more reasons to invade more oil fields go ahead. It is a perfect opportunity, as well as the beginning of an age of horror and murder.

[lovebush]

ersoy wrote: They grew up their children in religious schools teaching them the only book they wi,ll ever need for the rest of their lives is Koran. Those children are naturally destined to live in misery, grew anger against western civilization, or simply civilization. I think instead of grewing more anger and hate we should do something for that. There most be a logical alternative for that vicious circle which is secularism and reformation in Islam. Turkey is t6he best sample for it. Instead of talking about Constantinople, we should work on that. But if the aim is having more reasons to invade more oil fields go ahead. It is a perfect opportunity, as well as the beginning of an age of horror and murder.


We should do nothing when we are attacted? Our ships are bommbed? Our embacys? Diplomats murdered? We have tried kindness, Afganistan was the #1 recipiant of our forign aid$ the year befor 911. We stopped the genocide against muslims in Kosovo. Our navy saved counless thousands of muslims after the sunami. there is a video of an American helocopter handing a box of food to a man whering a shirt with osama bin ladens face on it.

[ersoy]

You are absolutely right, it is not easy to be the strongest nation on the planet, just do not mix terrorism with a whole religion. Just aim terrorists not all muslims. We have been subjected to several Al Queda attacks and lost our people. Read the history of Turkish Republic, it is a story of continuous struggle with fundemantalist Islam. Our army is fighting along with yours in Afghanistan. Although we did not openly helped for Iraq it was because of our internal Kurdish problem. We have protected West during cold war, and suddenly we are terrorist muslims nothing else! It is not fair.

Was really the war in Iraq aimed to beat Al Queda? Probably ity was not even existed there and they have strong support now. Because 650 000 people have died since the war have begun including your own sons and daughters. That war was not against terrorism, just for invading oil fields. Majority of your people becoming aware of that. Think again.

[lovebush]

[quote="ersoy"] Quote: You are absolutely right, it is not easy to be the strongest nation on the planet, just do not mix terrorism with a whole religion. Just aim terrorists not all muslims. We have been subjected to several Al Queda attacks and lost our people. Read the history of Turkish Republic, it is a story of continuous struggle with fundemantalist Islam. Our army is fighting along with yours in Afghanistan. Although we did not openly helped for Iraq it was because of our internal Kurdish problem. We have protected West during cold war, and suddenly we are terrorist muslims nothing else! It is not fair.

I will concede that it is not fair to paint all muslims with the terrorist brush. But I would hope you can see why it is so easy for us nonmuslims to do. I did a google search "muslim violence" I got 22,200,000 hits. I watch news stories every day about muslim violence. I see video of imams preaching hate, and the spreading of islam by whatever means necessary , even biological, chemical and nuclear weapons. Poles of muslims in England say 50% view terrorist acts as justified. Stories of kidnappings, stonings, Honor killings, be-headings,rapes ect. ect. how often do we see anything that seems to contradict these things? rarely ever. It was a muslim that foiled the plot to bomb those planes. many terrorist have been arrested by other muslims. these things give some hope that there are those who might redeem the islamic faith.

Quote: Was really the war in Iraq aimed to beat Al Queda? Probably ity was not even existed there and they have strong support now. Because 650 000 people have died since the war have begun including your own sons and daughters. That war was not against terrorism, just for invading oil fields. Majority of your people becoming aware of that. Think again.

650,000 is a ridiculous figure and very few Americans think it is about oil. If it was about oil, it was a very bad investment, it will cost far more than we will ever get. Sadam chose war He could have avoided it. Most of the deaths are not from the war they are from the insurgents.

[Snake]

Shoot down teh focking plane, that'll learn 'em :lol:

[The Comrade]

Kamel wrote: Shoot down teh focking plane, that'll learn 'em :lol:


aren't we a regular george carlin.


so shooting down a plane and killing hundreds of people to stop a hijacker who was going to land the plane in the first place is a good idea?


is the sky orange in your universe?

[Snake]

it was a joke, that's why I put the :lol: at the end and typed it like a drunken fVcktard