Political Crossfire Forums

[logic-rules]

I think the argument could be made that it is not islam that is not compatible to the west, it is the west that is not compatible to religion. be it christianity or anything else.

[toddytodd]

logic-rules wrote: I think the argument could be made that it is not islam that is not compatible to the west, it is the west that is not compatible to religion. be it christianity or anything else.

Hm...not sure if the west isn't capable of any religion, but perhaps the 'main stream' religions. Maybe this idea of 'freedom' isn't allowing the fundamentals of religion to take hold...?
Or maybe you are right 100%.
Interesting thought though regardless....

[Carlin]

The west primarily runs secular.

[Todd D.]

Other.

The West as we know it today is born out of the classical liberal tradition of individualism, especially as it pertains to spiritual matters. Rhetoric aside, nowhere in the west is it mainstream accepted to forcefully convert one to ANY faith, even the faith of the majority of citizens in the country.

However, it would be just as ignorant to say that the West was not born (and, indeed prospered) because of the religious background that were present in both Western Europe as well as North America at the time of their great expansion. Whether you agree with Christianity or not, it's fairly undeniable that the "Protestant Work Ethic" was a MAJOR contribution to the development of western society, and in turn western society's position of dominance that it is currently sitting on.

So I'd say that it is a combination of both. The West remains a primarily Christian population, though that doesn't necessarily mean that others are not welcome nor encouraged to be a part of that society. Our governments are mostly "secular" in that they require no religious test in order to qualify for office, but it would be silly to assume that you can not see the influence of Judeo-Christian ideals and faith in our legal structure as well

[Carlin]

Todd D. wrote: Other.

The West as we know it today is born out of the classical liberal tradition of individualism, especially as it pertains to spiritual matters. Rhetoric aside, nowhere in the west is it mainstream accepted to forcefully convert one to ANY faith, even the faith of the majority of citizens in the country.

However, it would be just as ignorant to say that the West was not born (and, indeed prospered) because of the religious background that were present in both Western Europe as well as North America at the time of their great expansion. Whether you agree with Christianity or not, it's fairly undeniable that the "Protestant Work Ethic" was a MAJOR contribution to the development of western society, and in turn western society's position of dominance that it is currently sitting on.

So I'd say that it is a combination of both. The West remains a primarily Christian population, though that doesn't necessarily mean that others are not welcome nor encouraged to be a part of that society. Our governments are mostly "secular" in that they require no religious test in order to qualify for office, but it would be silly to assume that you can not see the influence of Judeo-Christian ideals and faith in our legal structure as well

Damn you! I already voted. There should be polls that don't allow us to vote until an X amount of posts are made.

But yes, the fact that it will be a long time before America elects an open atheist, speaks volumes (though I'm sure we've had a couple closet cases, just my guess).

[eynon]

Todd D. wrote: Other.

The West as we know it today is born out of the classical liberal tradition of individualism, especially as it pertains to spiritual matters. Rhetoric aside, nowhere in the west is it mainstream accepted to forcefully convert one to ANY faith, even the faith of the majority of citizens in the country.

However, it would be just as ignorant to say that the West was not born (and, indeed prospered) because of the religious background that were present in both Western Europe as well as North America at the time of their great expansion. Whether you agree with Christianity or not, it's fairly undeniable that the "Protestant Work Ethic" was a MAJOR contribution to the development of western society, and in turn western society's position of dominance that it is currently sitting on.

So I'd say that it is a combination of both. The West remains a primarily Christian population, though that doesn't necessarily mean that others are not welcome nor encouraged to be a part of that society. Our governments are mostly "secular" in that they require no religious test in order to qualify for office, but it would be silly to assume that you can not see the influence of Judeo-Christian ideals and faith in our legal structure as well

nice post........oh and my vote is both. The west is both secular and christian.

[logic-rules]

Quote: Other.

The West as we know it today is born out of the classical liberal tradition of individualism, especially as it pertains to spiritual matters. Rhetoric aside, nowhere in the west is it mainstream accepted to forcefully convert one to ANY faith, even the faith of the majority of citizens in the country.

However, it would be just as ignorant to say that the West was not born (and, indeed prospered) because of the religious background that were present in both Western Europe as well as North America at the time of their great expansion. Whether you agree with Christianity or not, it's fairly undeniable that the �Protestant Work Ethic� was a MAJOR contribution to the development of western society, and in turn western society's position of dominance that it is currently sitting on.

So I'd say that it is a combination of both. The West remains a primarily Christian population, though that doesn't necessarily mean that others are not welcome nor encouraged to be a part of that society. Our governments are mostly �secular� in that they require no religious test in order to qualify for office, but it would be silly to assume that you can not see the influence of Judeo-Christian ideals and faith in our legal structure as well


examples of the ideals in our legal structure. their is always the argument for thou shall not kill and thou shall not steal but i don't buy it. those are laws pertaining to property rights. one could reason we left the state of nature to charge the government to protect our property from others. their is some influence on laws but i am sure the examples you have are hotly contested and are not uniform throughout the west, gay marriage? drug use? prostitution?


i would say that the west was neither born nor prospered because of its religious background. i would say that religion has had a small role in the emergence of the west and was more of an antagonist than protagonist. let me dig up an old passage and i will post it.

[Random Evil Guy]

Todd D. wrote:
However, it would be just as ignorant to say that the West was not born (and, indeed prospered) because of the religious background that were present in both Western Europe as well as North America at the time of their great expansion. Whether you agree with Christianity or not, it's fairly undeniable that the "Protestant Work Ethic" was a MAJOR contribution to the development of western society, and in turn western society's position of dominance that it is currently sitting on.

'western' values, ideas and rights have become an integral part of western society just as much in spite of christianity as it is because of it. christianity have always dragges it's feets when there was talk of personal freedom or rights... just look at the discussion surrounding gays and their rights today.

Todd D. wrote:
The West remains a primarily Christian population

bollocks. the 'west', is primarly secular. in western europe, the majority of the population are atheists and agnostics.

the us, which you seem to be focusing on exclusively, are in many ways not on the same page as the rest of the western world.

[mendosan]

I does ammuse me that we in the west diregard, our Christian heratige almost of hand, but even rationalist thought which attacks Christianity devives from it, this is a good quote

Quote: A European, even if he is an, atheist, is still the prisoner of an ethic and a mentality which are deeply rooted in the Christian tradition. He remains, one might say, 'of Christian desent', in the same way that Montherlant used to say he was 'of Catholic decent' although he had lost his faith.
A History of Civilizations, Fernand Braudel

I don't think we can completly disregard parts of our past, which were involved in our development, and people are wrong in generalizing all Christianity, you only have to look at the attempts to ordain women and gay Bishops in the Church of England.