Political Crossfire Forums

[JoeBen81]

Plato & Socrates wrote: lilwolf wrote: perdidochas wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: Probobly just another perfectly normal kid, that got his hands on Grand Theft Auto, then turned into..... ..... oh, nm.

Nothing in that report indicated that it was a kid (or not).


Either way ...kid or adult, I know adults that play that game. Very violent in its nature and could influence a weak minded person. If that is what caused it. Unknown at this point

So how did you withstand the influence lilwolf? :lol: Anyway this is just another case of an America wacko, with easy access to guns. When will you Yanks put 2+2 together and realise the correlation between, everybody having the right to have firearms, and with such easy accessability to these guns, the opportunity to blast people to death.

I just dont get it with you Americans. I would say that in the U.K we have just as many wacko's proportionally compared to the U.S. But because access to guns are so difficult, we have had only one instance like your school shootings and that was Dunblain. Why do people choose to take out there anger in a school is just beyond me?
Why is it in America, you have wacko snipers, killing their fellow civilians?

And why is it that invariably, 99% of these wacko's are white? I believe any white male near a school, should be stopped and searched. There should be profiling of us white guys. If it was blacks or hispanics killing kids so often, we would be calling for profiling and the stopping and searching of these groups, and the G.O.P would support it. America needs to set limitations on gun ownership. I would start with anybody convicted of a fire-arm offence, loses the right to bear arms. Bang bang.
Cause we have as many extremeist idiots here as there are everywhere else. I know it's cliche but, guns don't kill people. Sure less guns means less opportunity, but not at the expense of taking them away from lawful citizens.

[perdidochas]

bigstick61 wrote: The shooter wasa 32 year-old milkman. He ordered all of the boys out and locked himself in with the hostages, killing at least five and wounding three, and killing himself. 10 shots were fired by him.

Sounds like he was a semi-copy cat.

[Alizard]

Plato & Socrates wrote: America needs to set limitations on gun ownership. I would start with anybody convicted of a fire-arm offence, loses the right to bear arms. Bang bang.

Amazing. It is already illegal for anyone convicted of a crime to own or buy a gun. Now explain to us how passing even more laws will keep law breakers from ignoring those laws just like they ignore the gun control laws already on the books....

Gun control advocates just don't realize a simple truth: laws only affect the people who OBEY them.....

[perdidochas]

Plato & Socrates wrote: America needs to set limitations on gun ownership. I would start with anybody convicted of a fire-arm offence, loses the right to bear arms. Bang bang.

The following already have lost their right to bear arms (according to the BATF):

BATF wrote: B5) Are there certain persons who cannot legally receive or possess firearms and/or ammunition? [Back]


Yes, a person who –

(1) Has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year;

(2) Is a fugitive from justice;

(3) Is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance;

(4) Has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to a mental institution;

(5) Is an alien illegally or unlawfully in the United States or an alien admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa;

(6) Has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;

(7) Having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his or her citizenship;

(8) Is subject to a court order that restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner; or

(9) Has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence

(10) Cannot lawfully receive, possess, ship, or transport a firearm.

A person who is under indictment or information for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year cannot lawfully receive a firearm.

Such person may continue to lawfully possess firearms obtained prior to the indictment or information.

www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b5

[puffin]

Perd,
The Amish gunner had no record so he could buy any legal gun he wanted. If the gun and KY Jelly had not been invented he would have used an axe and bear fat.
I think people are missing a point here. With close to 300 million people in the US you can find a handfull of wackos doing anything you can think of everyday. Imagine how many insane people in India or China are doing 'their thing' at this moment..
At this very moment there are thirty people somewhere on the planet eating dog sh*t for whatever reason. What do we do, eliminate all the dogs?

[Di]

There were three school shootings this week? Cripes, where was I? Can someone list where they were and what happened? The only other one I know about was the same day as the Amish school shooting, where some kid in Las Vegas was reported to have a gun... wasn't on school property, that I know of, though.

As for reforming gun laws, I'm all for gun controls... and we have quite a few gun controls as it is. But I'd like to remind folks that it wasn't too long ago that a wild-eyed Canuck ran into a Canadian school, guns blazing, and killed a few of our northern cousins. Also, there was at least one school shooting in Europe last year, so please. Shootings, and violence in general, is not just an American phenomena.

Anyway, as y'all no doubt know by now, the murdering milkman was a closet psychopath, who'd apparently molested little girls when he was a child and recently had dreams of repeating the experience. According to the equipment he brought with him, i.e. intimate lubricant, that's apparently what he was planning to do until he got rattled and tried to execute all of his victims instead. Little girls, from 6 to 12. What a sick tragedy. :(

[Wizard From Oz]

Quote: There were three school shootings this week? Cripes, where was I? Can someone list where they were and what happened? The only other one I know about was the same day as the Amish school shooting, where some kid in Las Vegas was reported to have a gun... wasn't on school property, that I know of, though.


Yeah there was the Amish thing (God bless their souls)

The guy in Colorado.

And a 16 year old girl shot her principle at school - not sure where that was exactly.

Quote: As for reforming gun laws, I'm all for gun controls... and we have quite a few gun controls as it is. But I'd like to remind folks that it wasn't too long ago that a wild-eyed Canuck ran into a Canadian school, guns blazing, and killed a few of our northern cousins. Also, there was at least one school shooting in Europe last year, so please. Shootings, and violence in general, is not just an American phenomena.


And without trying to drag this into a gun debate - You have to admit America has turned it into an artform

[moody]

JoeBen81 wrote: Plato & Socrates wrote: lilwolf wrote: perdidochas wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: Probobly just another perfectly normal kid, that got his hands on Grand Theft Auto, then turned into..... ..... oh, nm.

Nothing in that report indicated that it was a kid (or not).


Either way ...kid or adult, I know adults that play that game. Very violent in its nature and could influence a weak minded person. If that is what caused it. Unknown at this point

So how did you withstand the influence lilwolf? :lol: Anyway this is just another case of an America wacko, with easy access to guns. When will you Yanks put 2+2 together and realise the correlation between, everybody having the right to have firearms, and with such easy accessability to these guns, the opportunity to blast people to death.

I just dont get it with you Americans. I would say that in the U.K we have just as many wacko's proportionally compared to the U.S. But because access to guns are so difficult, we have had only one instance like your school shootings and that was Dunblain. Why do people choose to take out there anger in a school is just beyond me?
Why is it in America, you have wacko snipers, killing their fellow civilians?

And why is it that invariably, 99% of these wacko's are white? I believe any white male near a school, should be stopped and searched. There should be profiling of us white guys. If it was blacks or hispanics killing kids so often, we would be calling for profiling and the stopping and searching of these groups, and the G.O.P would support it. America needs to set limitations on gun ownership. I would start with anybody convicted of a fire-arm offence, loses the right to bear arms. Bang bang.
Cause we have as many extremeist idiots here as there are everywhere else. I know it's cliche but, guns don't kill people. Sure less guns means less opportunity, but not at the expense of taking them away from lawful citizens.

Why would lawful citizens need a gun? Unless he/she is a hunter.
I am ex military (i know thing or two about guns) and to me people who own guns to protect themself live in a fear. As long as you're afraid and are thinking about someone breaking into your house all the time, you will never have piece of mind. Guns will not protect you from that. Don't worry about it and do other stuff. This is not wild west. Or is it?

[Di]

MG1962 wrote:
Yeah there was the Amish thing (God bless their souls)

The guy in Colorado.

And a 16 year old girl shot her principle at school - not sure where that was exactly.

I haven't heard a thing about a girl shooting her principal. I think you have mixed that up with the boy in Colorado, who did indeed shoot and kill his principal. That's the only other incident that has happened this week, to my knowledge.

Quote: And without trying to drag this into a gun debate - You have to admit America has turned it into an artform

So non-Americans (for the most part) are fond of saying every time there's a gun-related tragedy here. Yes, we are a country of about 300 million, so we will probably have ten times the problems of a country of 20-30 million. Wish we didn't, but hey. It happens, and when it happens it's always front page news around the globe. What annoys me is that when violent stuff happens in America, people say things they'd never say if the same thing had happened anywhere else on the planet, by blaming America itself for every bad thing that happens here. I don't recall anyone telling Canadians, "too bad about the school shooting, but if you wouldn't let your whackos run free and carry guns this never would have happened." Because the whacko in question WAS legally carrying a gun in Canada, and one school shooting in a population of 20 million is like a dozen school shootings in a population of 300 million, y'know?

Bad stuff happens, whackos happen, but damn. It would be nice to discuss at least one tragic event happening here in America without someone from around the globe wagging the "it's all your fault, America, because of [fill in the blank]" finger. I mean, that's like telling a grieving father that it's his fault his daughter is dead because he lives in a lousy country. Doesn't that strike you as rather rude and insensitive?

Ok, rant over. Didn't mean to rain on you specifically, MG1962. Was just addressing a general annoyance, and it happened as I was responding to your comment. No personal offense intended whatsoever. :)

[Plato & Socrates]

JoeBen81 wrote: Plato & Socrates wrote: lilwolf wrote: perdidochas wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: Probobly just another perfectly normal kid, that got his hands on Grand Theft Auto, then turned into..... ..... oh, nm.

Nothing in that report indicated that it was a kid (or not).


Either way ...kid or adult, I know adults that play that game. Very violent in its nature and could influence a weak minded person. If that is what caused it. Unknown at this point

So how did you withstand the influence lilwolf? :lol: Anyway this is just another case of an America wacko, with easy access to guns. When will you Yanks put 2+2 together and realise the correlation between, everybody having the right to have firearms, and with such easy accessability to these guns, the opportunity to blast people to death.

I just dont get it with you Americans. I would say that in the U.K we have just as many wacko's proportionally compared to the U.S. But because access to guns are so difficult, we have had only one instance like your school shootings and that was Dunblain. Why do people choose to take out there anger in a school is just beyond me?
Why is it in America, you have wacko snipers, killing their fellow civilians?

And why is it that invariably, 99% of these wacko's are white? I believe any white male near a school, should be stopped and searched. There should be profiling of us white guys. If it was blacks or hispanics killing kids so often, we would be calling for profiling and the stopping and searching of these groups, and the G.O.P would support it. America needs to set limitations on gun ownership. I would start with anybody convicted of a fire-arm offence, loses the right to bear arms. Bang bang.
Cause we have as many extremeist idiots here as there are everywhere else. I know it's cliche but, guns don't kill people. Sure less guns means less opportunity, but not at the expense of taking them away from lawful citizens.

I know all of the pro-gun arguments and all the cliches, but a philosopher once said, "Sometimes humans need saving from themselves" For all of mankinds advancements, we have'nt reached the stage, where man is enlightened enough to not use a gun with someone abusing it. For the gun lobbies logic is the same as, if the ammendment allowed you to carry Mustard gas, common-sense should tell you its a bad idea.

[CountryGuy]

moody wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: Plato & Socrates wrote: lilwolf wrote: perdidochas wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: Probobly just another perfectly normal kid, that got his hands on Grand Theft Auto, then turned into..... ..... oh, nm.

Nothing in that report indicated that it was a kid (or not).


Either way ...kid or adult, I know adults that play that game. Very violent in its nature and could influence a weak minded person. If that is what caused it. Unknown at this point

So how did you withstand the influence lilwolf? :lol: Anyway this is just another case of an America wacko, with easy access to guns. When will you Yanks put 2+2 together and realise the correlation between, everybody having the right to have firearms, and with such easy accessability to these guns, the opportunity to blast people to death.

I just dont get it with you Americans. I would say that in the U.K we have just as many wacko's proportionally compared to the U.S. But because access to guns are so difficult, we have had only one instance like your school shootings and that was Dunblain. Why do people choose to take out there anger in a school is just beyond me?
Why is it in America, you have wacko snipers, killing their fellow civilians?

And why is it that invariably, 99% of these wacko's are white? I believe any white male near a school, should be stopped and searched. There should be profiling of us white guys. If it was blacks or hispanics killing kids so often, we would be calling for profiling and the stopping and searching of these groups, and the G.O.P would support it. America needs to set limitations on gun ownership. I would start with anybody convicted of a fire-arm offence, loses the right to bear arms. Bang bang.
Cause we have as many extremeist idiots here as there are everywhere else. I know it's cliche but, guns don't kill people. Sure less guns means less opportunity, but not at the expense of taking them away from lawful citizens.

Why would lawful citizens need a gun? Unless he/she is a hunter.
I am ex military (i know thing or two about guns) and to me people who own guns to protect themself live in a fear. As long as you're afraid and are thinking about someone breaking into your house all the time, you will never have piece of mind. Guns will not protect you from that. Don't worry about it and do other stuff. This is not wild west. Or is it?

Actually, owning a gun allows people to not live in fear. People do horrible things, and they might try to do so in your home. While your choice is to not have a weapon do defend yourself in the UNLIKELY event that should happen, others sleep better at night knowing they can protect their families should this unlikely event occur. For this purpose, its no different than having a smoke detector in the house -- Its unlikely you'll have a fire, but you sleep better knowing you're going to get a wake-up alarm should a fire break out.

The gun statistics in this country are terrible. But most of the problems come from illegal guns. Controlling access to legally purchased guns would not prevent the people doing harm from obtaining these weapons, but would prevent honest people from being able to defend themselves.

[moody]

CountryGuy wrote: moody wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: Plato & Socrates wrote: lilwolf wrote: perdidochas wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: Probobly just another perfectly normal kid, that got his hands on Grand Theft Auto, then turned into..... ..... oh, nm.

Nothing in that report indicated that it was a kid (or not).


Either way ...kid or adult, I know adults that play that game. Very violent in its nature and could influence a weak minded person. If that is what caused it. Unknown at this point

So how did you withstand the influence lilwolf? :lol: Anyway this is just another case of an America wacko, with easy access to guns. When will you Yanks put 2+2 together and realise the correlation between, everybody having the right to have firearms, and with such easy accessability to these guns, the opportunity to blast people to death.

I just dont get it with you Americans. I would say that in the U.K we have just as many wacko's proportionally compared to the U.S. But because access to guns are so difficult, we have had only one instance like your school shootings and that was Dunblain. Why do people choose to take out there anger in a school is just beyond me?
Why is it in America, you have wacko snipers, killing their fellow civilians?

And why is it that invariably, 99% of these wacko's are white? I believe any white male near a school, should be stopped and searched. There should be profiling of us white guys. If it was blacks or hispanics killing kids so often, we would be calling for profiling and the stopping and searching of these groups, and the G.O.P would support it. America needs to set limitations on gun ownership. I would start with anybody convicted of a fire-arm offence, loses the right to bear arms. Bang bang.
Cause we have as many extremeist idiots here as there are everywhere else. I know it's cliche but, guns don't kill people. Sure less guns means less opportunity, but not at the expense of taking them away from lawful citizens.

Why would lawful citizens need a gun? Unless he/she is a hunter.
I am ex military (i know thing or two about guns) and to me people who own guns to protect themself live in a fear. As long as you're afraid and are thinking about someone breaking into your house all the time, you will never have piece of mind. Guns will not protect you from that. Don't worry about it and do other stuff. This is not wild west. Or is it?

Actually, owning a gun allows people to not live in fear. People do horrible things, and they might try to do so in your home. While your choice is to not have a weapon do defend yourself in the UNLIKELY event that should happen, others sleep better at night knowing they can protect their families should this unlikely event occur. For this purpose, its no different than having a smoke detector in the house -- Its unlikely you'll have a fire, but you sleep better knowing you're going to get a wake-up alarm should a fire break out.

The gun statistics in this country are terrible. But most of the problems come from illegal guns. Controlling access to legally purchased guns would not prevent the people doing harm from obtaining these weapons, but would prevent honest people from being able to defend themselves.

Some good points on the surface, but I will still have to disagree with you.
Europe for example has guns outlawed and it has lowest crime rate and gun accidents in the whole world. It's either people here are so messed up or guns really cause problems. I don't see third. Besides, what kind of life is that you need a gun to sleep better. We might have a high tech, post modern, techno bull but deep down this is still a wild west.

[Mighty Oak]

Just thought I pass this on,there have been 25 school shootings since school started this year.!7 of them were not fatal.

[Wizard From Oz]

[quote]Ok, rant over. Didn't mean to rain on you specifically, MG1962. Was just addressing a general annoyance, and it happened as I was responding to your comment. No personal offense intended whatsoever.
[quote]

No offense taken. However I do feel moved to point out the following

Gun related deaths USA All causes 2001 - 29,573

http://thegreenman.net.au/mt/gun_deaths_in_usa.htm

Gun related deaths Australia All causes 2001 - 333

http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/tandi2/tandi269.pdf#search=%22gun%20related%20deaths%20in%20Australia%22

US Population 2001 285,317,572

Aust Population 2001 30,000,000 Aprox

US population is 9.51 times Australian. Therefore adjusted figure are

US Deaths 3109

In other words in 2001 The US reported a death by firearms rate aproximately 9 times that of Australia

:) Hope that helps

[sailorman126]

moody
sorry to have to correct you but in europe crime is higher in many parts than in the us. and in this country the areas that have strict gun laws have a higher crime rate than those with fewer gun laws.
the only crime that is higher is crimes with a gun.
and the stat that you dont see is how many crimes are stoped by a person with a gun. for some reason teh press never like to publish that one.
another thing that you might not know about is how the number of gun deaths are caculated.
they include sucide that is over 50% of all gun deaths in this country, it includes police killing criminals and it includes acts of self defence.
for some reason the anti gunners dont tell you that about the number they use.

[JoeBen81]

moody wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: Plato & Socrates wrote: lilwolf wrote: perdidochas wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: Probobly just another perfectly normal kid, that got his hands on Grand Theft Auto, then turned into..... ..... oh, nm.

Nothing in that report indicated that it was a kid (or not).


Either way ...kid or adult, I know adults that play that game. Very violent in its nature and could influence a weak minded person. If that is what caused it. Unknown at this point

So how did you withstand the influence lilwolf? :lol: Anyway this is just another case of an America wacko, with easy access to guns. When will you Yanks put 2+2 together and realise the correlation between, everybody having the right to have firearms, and with such easy accessability to these guns, the opportunity to blast people to death.

I just dont get it with you Americans. I would say that in the U.K we have just as many wacko's proportionally compared to the U.S. But because access to guns are so difficult, we have had only one instance like your school shootings and that was Dunblain. Why do people choose to take out there anger in a school is just beyond me?
Why is it in America, you have wacko snipers, killing their fellow civilians?

And why is it that invariably, 99% of these wacko's are white? I believe any white male near a school, should be stopped and searched. There should be profiling of us white guys. If it was blacks or hispanics killing kids so often, we would be calling for profiling and the stopping and searching of these groups, and the G.O.P would support it. America needs to set limitations on gun ownership. I would start with anybody convicted of a fire-arm offence, loses the right to bear arms. Bang bang.
Cause we have as many extremeist idiots here as there are everywhere else. I know it's cliche but, guns don't kill people. Sure less guns means less opportunity, but not at the expense of taking them away from lawful citizens.

Why would lawful citizens need a gun? Unless he/she is a hunter.
I am ex military (i know thing or two about guns) and to me people who own guns to protect themself live in a fear. As long as you're afraid and are thinking about someone breaking into your house all the time, you will never have piece of mind. Guns will not protect you from that. Don't worry about it and do other stuff. This is not wild west. Or is it?

Im not risking my families lives on that assumption. There's a large difference in living in fear and owning a gun.

[outsider]

sailorman126 wrote: moody
sorry to have to correct you but in europe crime is higher in many parts than in the us. and in this country the areas that have strict gun laws have a higher crime rate than those with fewer gun laws.
the only crime that is higher is crimes with a gun.
and the stat that you dont see is how many crimes are stoped by a person with a gun. for some reason teh press never like to publish that one.
another thing that you might not know about is how the number of gun deaths are caculated.
they include sucide that is over 50% of all gun deaths in this country, it includes police killing criminals and it includes acts of self defence.
for some reason the anti gunners dont tell you that about the number they use.

Can you please back this up with some facts?

[perdidochas]

moody wrote: CountryGuy wrote: moody wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: Plato & Socrates wrote: lilwolf wrote: perdidochas wrote: JoeBen81 wrote: Probobly just another perfectly normal kid, that got his hands on Grand Theft Auto, then turned into..... ..... oh, nm.

Nothing in that report indicated that it was a kid (or not).


Either way ...kid or adult, I know adults that play that game. Very violent in its nature and could influence a weak minded person. If that is what caused it. Unknown at this point

So how did you withstand the influence lilwolf? :lol: Anyway this is just another case of an America wacko, with easy access to guns. When will you Yanks put 2+2 together and realise the correlation between, everybody having the right to have firearms, and with such easy accessability to these guns, the opportunity to blast people to death.

I just dont get it with you Americans. I would say that in the U.K we have just as many wacko's proportionally compared to the U.S. But because access to guns are so difficult, we have had only one instance like your school shootings and that was Dunblain. Why do people choose to take out there anger in a school is just beyond me?
Why is it in America, you have wacko snipers, killing their fellow civilians?

And why is it that invariably, 99% of these wacko's are white? I believe any white male near a school, should be stopped and searched. There should be profiling of us white guys. If it was blacks or hispanics killing kids so often, we would be calling for profiling and the stopping and searching of these groups, and the G.O.P would support it. America needs to set limitations on gun ownership. I would start with anybody convicted of a fire-arm offence, loses the right to bear arms. Bang bang.
Cause we have as many extremeist idiots here as there are everywhere else. I know it's cliche but, guns don't kill people. Sure less guns means less opportunity, but not at the expense of taking them away from lawful citizens.

Why would lawful citizens need a gun? Unless he/she is a hunter.
I am ex military (i know thing or two about guns) and to me people who own guns to protect themself live in a fear. As long as you're afraid and are thinking about someone breaking into your house all the time, you will never have piece of mind. Guns will not protect you from that. Don't worry about it and do other stuff. This is not wild west. Or is it?

Actually, owning a gun allows people to not live in fear. People do horrible things, and they might try to do so in your home. While your choice is to not have a weapon do defend yourself in the UNLIKELY event that should happen, others sleep better at night knowing they can protect their families should this unlikely event occur. For this purpose, its no different than having a smoke detector in the house -- Its unlikely you'll have a fire, but you sleep better knowing you're going to get a wake-up alarm should a fire break out.

The gun statistics in this country are terrible. But most of the problems come from illegal guns. Controlling access to legally purchased guns would not prevent the people doing harm from obtaining these weapons, but would prevent honest people from being able to defend themselves.

Some good points on the surface, but I will still have to disagree with you.
Europe for example has guns outlawed and it has lowest crime rate and gun accidents in the whole world. It's either people here are so messed up or guns really cause problems. I don't see third. Besides, what kind of life is that you need a gun to sleep better. We might have a high tech, post modern, techno bull but deep down this is still a wild west.

Mexico also has guns outlawed, yet their murder rate is 4 times ours.

I do think it is because we are "so messed up." We have a diverse society composed of troublemakers from the rest of the world--i.e. the religious fanatics, freedom lovers, prisoners, criminals, risk takers, etc. The people that settled America were not the ones content to leave their protection, etc. to others.

Also, I have smoke alarms, fire extinguishers, at least a week of non-perishable foods, stored water, etc. Owning a gun, especially in hurricane country, where it is very possible to live without phone/electricity for a week, is similar.

[Yrkoon]

Rankor and Pissing wrote: Lancaster PA is a very picturesque area, lots of rolling farmland and rural roots. The Amish (or Pennsylvania Dutch) are a German descended group who does not like to contact the outside very much and lives a very Christian lifestyle. Farming is the family business - they tend not to adopt technology and utilize "traditional" farming methods and communication. They are a "closed community" and do not often have issues that reach out past the Lancaster area.

This is very suprising:

Amish School Shooting

One room farmhouse:

AP Newswire wrote:
NICKEL MINES, Pennsylvania (AP) -- A gunman killed "a number" of people at a one-room Amish schoolhouse Monday in Pennsylvania's Lancaster County, state police said.

The shooter was among the dead, state police Cpl. Ralph Striebig said.

"There are a number of people dead," Striebig said. "The exact number I do not know yet."

About three dozen Amish people were standing behind a police line, and at least two ambulances had left the scene, WGAL-TV said. Television news helicopters showed a person being taken away on a stretcher to a waiting medical helicopter.

The Lancaster County 911 Web site reported that dozens of emergency units were dispatched to a "medical emergency" at 10:45 a.m. Monday.

Latest in - at least 2 dead. The hostage taker and one other person. It looks as though it's a single room schoolhouse - couldn't hold more than maybe 30 people at one time.

<sigh>

Another Islamofacist attack.

We must do som-- OH WAIT!

[Yrkoon]

Di wrote: There were three school shootings this week? Cripes, where was I? Can someone list where they were and what happened?

I don't know if there were three school shootings this week, however, I tend to look at the bigger picture: there were many this year. There was one last year, one the year before that, one in 2003 etc.

Associated press list. And note, this is not a complete list Quote: A list of some fatal shootings at U.S. schools in recent years:

• Oct. 2, 2006: A gunman took about a dozen girls hostage, killing at least three of them, at a one-room Amish schoolhouse in Pennsylvania's Lancaster County, police said. The shooter was among the dead, and a number of people were injured.

• Sept. 29, 2006: 15-year-old Eric Hainstock brought two guns to a school in rural Cazenovia, Wis., and fatally shot the principal, a day after the principal gave him a disciplinary warning for having tobacco on school grounds, police said.

• Sept. 27, 2006: Duane Morrison, 53, took six girls hostage at Platte Canyon High School in Bailey, Colo. Morrison, sexually assaulting them and using them as human shields for hours before fatally shooting one girl and killing himself.

• Aug. 24, 2006: Christopher Williams, 27, went to an elementary school in Essex, Vermont, looking for his ex-girlfriend, a teacher. He couldn't find her and fatally shot one teacher and wounded another, police said. Williams also killed his ex-girlfriend's mother, according to authorities. He shot himself twice in the head after the rampage and was arrested.

• March 21, 2005: Sixteen-year-old Jeff Weise shot and killed five schoolmates, a teacher and an unarmed guard at a high school on the Red Lake Indian Reservation in Minnesota before taking his own life. Weise had earlier killed his grandfather and his grandfather's companion.

• Nov. 22, 2004: Sixteen-year-old Desmond Keels is accused of fatally shooting one student and wounding three others outside Strawberry Mansion High in Philadelphia. The attack apparently was over a $50 debt in a rap contest. Keels is set to stand trial on murder charges later this month.

• April 24, 2003: 14-year-old James Sheets shot and killed the principal in the crowded cafeteria of a junior high school in south-central Pennsylvania, before killing himself.

• May 26, 2000: 13-year-old Nathaniel Brazill killed his English teacher on the last day of classes in Lake Worth, Fla., after the teacher refused to let him talk with two girls in his classroom. He was convicted of second-degree murder and is serving a 28-year sentence.

• April 20, 1999: Students Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, killed 12 students and a teacher and wounded 23 before killing themselves at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo.

• May 21, 1998: Two teenagers were killed and more than 20 people hurt when a teenage boy opened fire at a high school in Springfield, Ore., after killing his parents. Kip Kinkel, 17, was sentenced to nearly 112 years in prison.

• May 19, 1998: Three days before his graduation, an honor student opened fire at a high school in Fayetteville, Tenn., killing a classmate who was dating his ex-girlfriend. Jacob Davis, 18, was sentenced to life in prison.

• March 24, 1998: Two boys, ages 11 and 13, fired on their Jonesboro, Ark., middle school from nearby woods, killing four girls and a teacher and wounding 10 others. Both boys were later convicted of murder and can be held until age 21.

• Dec. 1, 1997: Three students were killed and five wounded at a high school in West Paducah, Ky. Michael Carneal, then 14, later pleaded guilty but mentally ill to murder and is serving life in prison.

• Oct. 1, 1997: Sixteen-year-old Luke Woodham of Pearl, Miss., fatally shot two students and wounded seven others after stabbing his mother to death. He was sentenced the following year to three life sentences.



I don't see this as a gun issue. I see this as a security issue, instead. In terms of security, schools are the most neglected state institutions in the US. Here in St. Louis, anyone can walk right through the front doors of any suburbia-located school. There's no greeter, there's no security guards, there's no cameras, there's no metal detectors. Nothing.