Political Crossfire Forums

mayaga · Joined: 28 Aug 2006 Posts: 2 Location: FL

http://mediamatters.org/items/200609280007 takes umbrage over every reportage that does not spin a story in favor of liberal bias. Any ambiguous phrasing that fails to squarely place blame on the administration triggers a flood of condemnation against the report and its alleged lack of objectivity. Even reporters with reputations of being white house curmudgeon are regularly attacked over some nit picking imagined disrespect of a liberal talking point- revealing a fine-tuned defensiveness that has become hyper-hysterical.

Political ideology of the sectarian left has become so intolerant it resembles that aspect of the Islamic Sunni Wahhabi who decree that the slightest deviation from ideological doctrine justifies jihadi punishment and its radical indoctrination is similarly spread through a growing network of madrassa-like websites like mediamatters.org, moveon.org, michaelmoore.com- in infinitum.

The unprecedented scale and scope of political extremism in America seems to be reflecting the rise of sectarian conflict worldwide with its center of gravity in the Middle East- and as in this example- presents a tangible threat to the stability and survival of our democracy.

While we deplore the failure of moderate Muslim clergy to denounce extremist Islamist- at the same time moderate Democrats fail to disassociate from extremists in their own party. This irresponsibility allows radical ideology to spread destructively throughout the mainstream of each respective culture by default.

Dominating the entertainment industry, media and higher education, far-left doctrinaire is so commanding that the few moderate Democrats remaining avoid confrontation in fear of Lieberman's fate of losing his bid for renomination as a result of a far-left fatwa. While mainstream Democratic politicians posture as responsible members of the opposition party- Reed, Dean, Kennedy, Murtha and other hi-profile Dems regularly parrot the most extreme leftist viewpoint. It also explains the schizophrenic nature of Sen. Clinton's platform as she juggles conflicting sound bites to appeal both to the radical base which she needs for the party's nomination and still appear strong on fighting the war on terrorism-an imperative for winning the presidency.

We are faced with the most challenging mortal threat to our way of life since WWII and almost beyond comprehension, the far-left is defining the strategic choice as a moral issue with the real battle between the Dems.
party-for-peace-and-the-Geneva-Conventionagainst the Reps. party-for-war-and-torture. The simplistic logic follows that a win by the party-of-peace would end global hostility against America and remove the reason for terrorism. Similarly the far-left plays on the general lack of critical thinking skills to promote what appears to be common sense conclusions regarding why terrorism is increasing- and blames the primary battle against terrorists in Iraq as the only reason. Again the simplistic logic follows that it we withdraw from Iraq (and presumably Afghanistan) the terrorist threat would disappear.

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Quote: While we deplore the failure of moderate Muslim clergy to denounce extremist Islamist- at the same time moderate Democrats fail to disassociate from extremists in their own party. This irresponsibility allows radical ideology to spread destructively throughout the mainstream of each respective culture by default.

That's a really good point.

CountryGuy · Joined: 04 Feb 2006 Posts: 1018 Location: Pennsylvania

In truth though, this applies just as well to the Religious Right and their influence on the GOP. There is an element of the part that is way beyond the mainstream in their beliefs, and their desire to implement them on the entire American public.

Yet, Republicans remain mum about their influence. While its use as some form of liberal rallying cry has almost made us numb to it, there is a strong neoconservative movement that is NOT in line with what the American people want.

Just as with liberal extremists, they are not put in their proper place by the GOP (although I wish they did).

Mr.Bill · Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 5063 Location: NY

Quote: In truth though, this applies just as well to the Religious Right and their influence on the GOP.

I have to open this can of worms. What influence? I know I live in a VERY liberal state, New York. But my life hasn't changed one iota in the past 5+years of this admin which suppose to be 'controlled' by the RR.

My kids still can't pray in school, abortion is still legal, there will be no Nativity scenes on public land this Christmas. Besides stem cell research, please, what am i missing?

Disclaimer. I am not for school prayer, nor religion in government. I'm just wondering about all this influence I seem to be missing.

eynon · Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:42 pm Post subject:

CountryGuy wrote: In truth though, this applies just as well to the Religious Right and their influence on the GOP. There is an element of the part that is way beyond the mainstream in their beliefs, and their desire to implement them on the entire American public.

Yet, Republicans remain mum about their influence. While its use as some form of liberal rallying cry has almost made us numb to it, there is a strong neoconservative movement that is NOT in line with what the American people want.

Just as with liberal extremists, they are not put in their proper place by the GOP (although I wish they did).

mum? I just watched George Will this morning attack the religious right, life long Republican John Dean just wrote a scathing critique of the religious right in his book "Conservatives without Conscious", HBO just released a documentary on the life of Barry Goldwater in which his opposition to the religious right is highlighted..........as a secular republican I feel I'm in good company.

SYG · Joined: 01 Oct 2006 Posts: 43

Mr. Bill wrote: My kids still can't pray in school, abortion is still legal, there will be no Nativity scenes on public land this Christmas.

Actually, it is technically completely legal for students to pray in school. It is just illegal for teachers, as representatives of the school, to lead students in prayer or force them to pray.

Mr. Bill wrote: Besides stem cell research, please, what am i missing?

You mean, besides the huge, insanely expensive “war” currently going on in Iraq? Lets see:

There is currently a bill that has already passed the house that would prevent awards and fee costs to actions in court that enforce the Establishment Clause (which would greatly reduce the ACLU and similar organizations ability to bring lawsuits against violations of Church/State separation).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/29/AR2006092901055.html

There is currently large amounts of tax money being funneled to churches and “faith-based” programs. The original intent was specifically for charity roles that were previously performed by other organizations, but it has been shown that a lot of this tax money being used for various religious purposes with winks and nods. This money used to go to homeless shelters and children’s programs. Many other regular service organizations that had been successfully helping their communities for years were suddenly denied federal funding in favor of churches or religious organizations. And, of the organizations approved for this funding, a disproportionate amount espouse conservative viewpoints.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3944/is_200309/ai_n9241932

And, off the top of my head:

There have been several attempts at various methods of banning same-sex marriages (some of which succeeded).

We now have two additional religious right judges on the Supreme Court.

Politicians have begun to legislate scientific “truths.”

There have been several outright attempts to weaken the judicial branch of the government altogether.

Whether you agree with these actions or not, I don’t see how anyone could deny that the current administration is heavily influenced by the Religious Right.

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 15548 Location: On Earth

cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: While we deplore the failure of moderate Muslim clergy to denounce extremist Islamist- at the same time moderate Democrats fail to disassociate from extremists in their own party. This irresponsibility allows radical ideology to spread destructively throughout the mainstream of each respective culture by default.

That's a really good point.

The same thing applies to right-wing extremists who actively condone this extremism while denouncing other parties for having extremists among them!

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Saracen wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: While we deplore the failure of moderate Muslim clergy to denounce extremist Islamist- at the same time moderate Democrats fail to disassociate from extremists in their own party. This irresponsibility allows radical ideology to spread destructively throughout the mainstream of each respective culture by default.

That's a really good point.

The same thing applies to right-wing extremists who actively condone this extremism while denouncing other parties for having extremists among them!
Not really.

Extremism is wanting extreme or radical change to occur in society, and using or tolerating violence to force this change.

You can't really justify labeling conservatives, who do not want extreme or radical changes to society to be made, as extremists.

Mr.Bill · Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 5063 Location: NY

Quote: You mean, besides the huge, insanely expensive “war” currently going on in Iraq?

The war in Iraq is because of the RR influence on this White House? I'll add that to the list of reasons Bush got us into this war. :wink:

asainspace · Joined: 27 Oct 2005 Posts: 832 Location: England

mayaga wrote: http://mediamatters.org/items/200609280007 takes umbrage over every reportage that does not spin a story in favor of liberal bias. Any ambiguous phrasing that fails to squarely place blame on the administration triggers a flood of condemnation against the report and its alleged lack of objectivity. Even reporters with reputations of being white house curmudgeon are regularly attacked over some nit picking imagined disrespect of a liberal talking point- revealing a fine-tuned defensiveness that has become hyper-hysterical.

Political ideology of the sectarian left has become so intolerant it resembles that aspect of the Islamic Sunni Wahhabi who decree that the slightest deviation from ideological doctrine justifies jihadi punishment and its radical indoctrination is similarly spread through a growing network of madrassa-like websites like mediamatters.org, moveon.org, michaelmoore.com- in infinitum.

The unprecedented scale and scope of political extremism in America seems to be reflecting the rise of sectarian conflict worldwide with its center of gravity in the Middle East- and as in this example- presents a tangible threat to the stability and survival of our democracy.

While we deplore the failure of moderate Muslim clergy to denounce extremist Islamist- at the same time moderate Democrats fail to disassociate from extremists in their own party. This irresponsibility allows radical ideology to spread destructively throughout the mainstream of each respective culture by default.

Dominating the entertainment industry, media and higher education, far-left doctrinaire is so commanding that the few moderate Democrats remaining avoid confrontation in fear of Lieberman's fate of losing his bid for renomination as a result of a far-left fatwa. While mainstream Democratic politicians posture as responsible members of the opposition party- Reed, Dean, Kennedy, Murtha and other hi-profile Dems regularly parrot the most extreme leftist viewpoint. It also explains the schizophrenic nature of Sen. Clinton's platform as she juggles conflicting sound bites to appeal both to the radical base which she needs for the party's nomination and still appear strong on fighting the war on terrorism-an imperative for winning the presidency.

We are faced with the most challenging mortal threat to our way of life since WWII and almost beyond comprehension, the far-left is defining the strategic choice as a moral issue with the real battle between the Dems.
party-for-peace-and-the-Geneva-Conventionagainst the Reps. party-for-war-and-torture. The simplistic logic follows that a win by the party-of-peace would end global hostility against America and remove the reason for terrorism. Similarly the far-left plays on the general lack of critical thinking skills to promote what appears to be common sense conclusions regarding why terrorism is increasing- and blames the primary battle against terrorists in Iraq as the only reason. Again the simplistic logic follows that it we withdraw from Iraq (and presumably Afghanistan) the terrorist threat would disappear.

Perhaps rather it is the actions of the present government, its blatant disregard for accountability and its desire to act with impunity across borders and cultures globally, both politically and militarily that is forcing people to oppose them and thus create this impression that pinko commies are coming to get you.

The fact that the crimes of the US in the last few years greatly outweighs anything the liberal movement has done strikes to me that some of you quite deliberately are trying to shift the blame for the present situation in the world towards those of us who get classed as "liberals".

The fact there there must be opposition to the War in Iraq because of the complete and total failure in both justification and execution of the invasion is something that those of you who supported it are guilty of, not the anti-war movement that seeks to protest at the death and devastation that our undemocractic actions in the ME have caused.

To be so ignorant and deceitful in trying to shift blame onto someone else is just another sign that this admninistration and it's supporters play lip service to democracy as your nation helps to drive more people into opposition both politically and with increasing violence.

To deny or ignore the fact that the actions of the USA are creating the increased threat to everyones security is tantamount to criminal negligence and the leaving behind of morals you conservatives and Bush lovers so preach you uphold.

Responsibility starts with accepting that you are wrong, though I have no faith left in thinking that the war supporters even realise the error of their ways, even when the intelligence communities of both the US and UK contradict the rantings of their masters. Something is seriously wrong with our democracies and it has got infinitely worse during the reigns of Bush and Blair.

asainspace · Joined: 27 Oct 2005 Posts: 832 Location: England

cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: While we deplore the failure of moderate Muslim clergy to denounce extremist Islamist- at the same time moderate Democrats fail to disassociate from extremists in their own party. This irresponsibility allows radical ideology to spread destructively throughout the mainstream of each respective culture by default.

That's a really good point.

Yeah, lets just sit back and allow foreign powers to kill, torture and act with impunity on our land and say nothing.

Extremists are pushed to become so by the failure of government to listen to the justified criticisms of their people. The denial tactics of the UK and US governments are disgusting, so it is no wonder people resort to more extreme methods in order to counter an extreme government.

Hypocrisy in all it's glory and you only have to look at Burma t see this hypocrisy in action.

Rankor and Pissing · Joined: 04 Mar 2006 Posts: 8861

mayaga wrote:
Political ideology of the sectarian left has become so intolerant it resembles that aspect of the Islamic Sunni Wahhabi who decree that the slightest deviation from ideological doctrine justifies jihadi punishment and its radical indoctrination is similarly spread through a growing network of madrassa-like websites like mediamatters.org, moveon.org, michaelmoore.com- in infinitum.

From a purely political aspect, this quote above is the 500lb gorilla. Yes, finger point and say the Right Winger neo-cons have their Limbaugh's and all the rest that spoutthe same thing - however, as we see here on PCF as in the MSM and real life, the Conservatives do not have as much of a voice. The moderates in the Democrats are smeared and scorned, while the uber-left faithful are praised and showered with money and praise. This is something called a "reward system" and Pavlov did experiments with dogs as you'll all recall, and the left-wing faithful are salivating their tongues off.

It's not about anything but getting the power base back with the Democratic leadership. It's not about the issues, it's not about people in different districts, it's not about Iraq... it's about power and money. After all, this is an election year.

Rankor and Pissing · Joined: 04 Mar 2006 Posts: 8861

May want to check this out as well... though the turn-out was paltry and in Brooklyn (not the most supportive of places for armed-Jihad against zionists as it has a high amount of Jewish population) it's very interesting. There's a linkback to Little Green Footballs with a video, and while LGF is a RightWing blog and hardly an un-biased source, the video is interesting to watch.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/imagesofperfection/sets/72157594306253422/

SYG · Joined: 01 Oct 2006 Posts: 43

You are kidding right? All I have seen of Democrats is that they usually let conservatives walk all over them except for the occasional ability to actually grow a spine just enough to vote against some of the more insane proposals that come out of the right-wing administration. If anything, they are being slowly pushed more towards the center. The right wing influence over the current administration, on the other hand, is overwhelming; Bush isn’t even trying to be bipartisan (And yes, Bill, the RR is a very strong supporter of the war in Iraq).

Even some republicans are saying they want to lose next election because the country has gotten too right-wing. From their own mouths:

Let’s quit while we’re behind

Bring on Pelosi

And we thought Clinton had no self-control

The increase of Democrats attempting to block legislation is an indicator that the Republicans have become more right-wing, not that the Democrats have become more left-wing. This is typical of what happens when one party controls both houses and the executive.

Alizard

mayaga wrote: http://mediamatters.org/items/200609280007 takes umbrage over every reportage that does not spin a story in favor of liberal bias. Any ambiguous phrasing that fails to squarely place blame on the administration triggers a flood of condemnation against the report and its alleged lack of objectivity.

Let's see.... toal posts = ONE.

Can you say it with me?

TROLL......

Alizard

mayaga wrote:
While we deplore the failure of moderate Muslim clergy to denounce extremist Islamist- at the same time moderate Democrats fail to disassociate from extremists in their own party.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You want to talk religous extremists?

Open your eyes and look at the looney toons who have completely hijacked the name "christian" and are holding the reins of the republican party.

Angelicus · Joined: 04 Apr 2006 Posts: 4270

Except for, and again this is where the arguement that the "religious right" is "just as bad" breaks down, the "religious right" doesn't fly planes into buildings to begin with.

And when one of its "own" does do something crazy, such as firebomb an abortion clinic, the leadership of the "religious right" are real quick too DENOUNCE it publicly and immediately, unlike the Democrats who instead attempt to spin it, or somehow justify it.

Alizard · Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:42 pm Post subject:

Mr.Bill wrote: Quote: In truth though, this applies just as well to the Religious Right and their influence on the GOP.

I have to open this can of worms. What influence? I know I live in a VERY liberal state, New York. But my life hasn't changed one iota in the past 5+years of this admin which suppose to be 'controlled' by the RR.

My kids still can't pray in school, abortion is still legal, there will be no Nativity scenes on public land this Christmas. Besides stem cell research, please, what am i missing?

Disclaimer. I am not for school prayer, nor religion in government. I'm just wondering about all this influence I seem to be missing. The supreme court of the united states is one sputtering heartbeat away from a solid reactionary "christian" block of five votes. And BTW, watch this year as they start dismantling Roe.v Wade one brick at a time by placing more and more restrictions on it until it has been completely gutted and abortion is illegal in actual availability.

You want to see what kind of country we have?

A glimpse of a part of a nipple evokes a half million dollar fine to a national network......

The rest of the world must stare at us and wonder what time we will join them in the post 1900 world......

Alizard · Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:44 pm Post subject:

Angelicus wrote: Except for, and again this is where the arguement that the "religious right" is "just as bad" breaks down, the "religious right" doesn't fly planes into buildings to begin with.

And when one of its "own" does do something crazy, such as firebomb an abortion clinic, the leadership of the "religious right" are real quick too DENOUNCE it publicly and immediately, unlike the Democrats who instead attempt to spin it, or somehow justify it. Dude, if you make the claim that the "dems" are the ones spinning reality into BS on a wholesale basis.....

your credibility evaporates like water on the road in a Texas summer.

mayaga · Joined: 28 Aug 2006 Posts: 2 Location: FL

Alizard wrote: mayaga wrote: http://mediamatters.org/items/200609280007 takes umbrage over every reportage that does not spin a story in favor of liberal bias. Any ambiguous phrasing that fails to squarely place blame on the administration triggers a flood of condemnation against the report and its alleged lack of objectivity.

Let's see.... toal posts = ONE.

Can you say it with me?

TROLL......

Ah...playing the stigmata card Alizard- should have at least waited for me to be offline for 24 hours. Just caught up with the thread today and see others are doing fine dealing with your anarchist pap.

You and "anti-war peaceniks" demonstrate your loathing for the USA with either your blindness to the mortal threat Islamist terrorism presents or your deliberate effort to undermine every effort that is taken to defend ouselves. To suggest that there is an equivalency to your kind of far-left politics and that of the religious right- insofar as how it threatens our national survival- is beyond absurd.