Political Crossfire Forums

[Ingsoc]

Yes, I believe that weed should be legal. WHY?

Firstly, if anyone in the US wants to buy and smoke weed, it is quite easy to do so, therefore, the illegalization of it has been a failure.

Secondly, smoking weed is much more calming and relaxing and American's only legal drug, alcohol. When one gets drunk on booze, it is possible to become angry, depressed, hateful, violent, etc... I have never met anyone that got angry and violent from smoking weed.

Thirdly, there have been no proven ill effects from smoking marijuana. Cigarettes on the other hand have been pr oven to be highly addictive and dangerous to ones health, yet they remain legal.

Fourthly, the illegalization of marijuana costs US tax payers millions of dollars every year in efforts to stop the buying and selling of the product, which up to tis date has proven to be a complete failure, as I stated earlier if someone wants it, they can get it. Therefore, why should the American public keep paying for a service which basically does not exist.

[Melchior]

Oh, so you are in favor of the war on guns, but when it comes to the war on drugs you support the Bill of Rights? :roll:

Regardless, you are only making the case for marijuana. How do you feel about Drug Prohibition in general?

[Ingsoc]

I think that drugs that make people go crazy, make them violent, angry, etc... and have ill effects on ones health, should be illegal. Marijuana does none of these. PCP for instance make people think they can do anything, makes them think they are invincible, alcohol does this to a certain extent as well. Marijuana does not, I never once smoked weed and felt that I could fight six guys or jump through a glass window and fly.

Firearms have the same effect, they make people feel more powerful than they really are, gives them a sense of power and invincibility that makes them do things that they normally would not.

[Melchior]

Right, your argument isn't constitutional. Your argument is just about marijuana and how safe it is compared to even legal drugs.

I suggest you visit my Drug Prohibition thread and read Kumars post. :wink:

[Ingsoc]

Yes, I just read through his post, I agree with his views highly. However what he failed to mention is WHY we do have such a policy. I have a degree in sociology, so I have studied a lot on how our society opperates. Basically, the war on drugs helps to keep minoroties and the underclass down and where they are. I have written papers on the topic, however I don't feel like typing up 8 pages on this forum right now. But do you think it's a coincidence that crack cocaine, which is cheaper than cocaine and used primarily by the lower classes, is dealth with more harshly than powder cocaine is?

The whole problem with our constitution is that it was created when wealthy, land-owning, white, males were the only ones who had any power. And it still shows today. Equality for all, I think not.

[Ingsoc]

soldierofchrist wrote: Ingsoc wrote: I think that drugs that make people go crazy, make them violent, angry, etc... and have ill effects on ones health, should be illegal. Marijuana does none of these. PCP for instance make people think they can do anything, makes them think they are invincible, alcohol does this to a certain extent as well. Marijuana does not, I never once smoked weed and felt that I could fight six guys or jump through a glass window and fly.

Firearms have the same effect, they make people feel more powerful than they really are, gives them a sense of power and invincibility that makes them do things that they normally would not.
No they don't. :lol: I know gun owners, they don't do anything out of the ordinary. And alcohol is dangerous, are you in favor of prohibiting that as well? Knives might make people feel more powerful, let's rid our streets of those. :roll: Driving fast cars might make people do stupid things they wouldn't normally, ban them? Where does it stop?


Exactly, humans have invented a lot of smart devices ehh? What does that say about humanity? Everything we do F**K** something up in some way or another, are we really all that smart and sopfisticated? I'm getting drunk by the way, so yes I love alcohol, but it makes people much mopre crazy than weed does, therefore why should booze be legal and weed not, which is the origianl point here.

[Jay2014]

Ingsoc wrote: Yes, I just read through his post, I agree with his views highly. However what he failed to mention is WHY we do have such a policy. I have a degree in sociology, so I have studied a lot on how our society opperates. Basically, the war on drugs helps to keep minoroties and the underclass down and where they are. I have written papers on the topic, however I don't feel like typing up 8 pages on this forum right now. But do you think it's a coincidence that crack cocaine, which is cheaper than cocaine and used primarily by the lower classes, is dealth with more harshly than powder cocaine is?

The whole problem with our constitution is that it was created when wealthy, land-owning, white, males were the only ones who had any power. And it still shows today. Equality for all, I think not.

sociology is my field of study, i recommend you read "the new temperance" by david wagner. hes a sociologist from maine, and points out how almost all the rhetoric on drugs is hyperbole.

[CynicalBastard]

Certainly I agree that drugs make no decent escape route, and I try to steer away from them myself, but does that give the government the right to tell people not to do them? In the same sense, if the government saw statistics that driving a car seriouosly increased the risk of sudden violent deaths (which is true) would it give them the right to tell people that it would be better for them to take public transportation? Or even more to the point, could they make chocolate illegal because its slightly addicting, and not healthy? Using your same argument I could say that "Chocolate is just a temporary joy that causes a long term bad affect (gaining weight). Once your done eating, time to eat some more. But I'm sure none of us would think chocolate should be illegal because its such a mild example for a serious topic. More to the essence of the argument would be to look at what our rights as human beings are. We have the right to live our life how we want, and not have our lives, liberty, or property taken from us unless we directly harm another human being. Pot harms only ourselves, and therefore it should be a personal choice for the individual to chose as he or she wishes. Legalizing drugs is encouraging getting high as much as legalizing beer is encouraging people to get wasted. As side points, legalized pot will be safer, because gangs dip their pot in gasoline and let it dry in order for the weed to gain weight and sell for more. Moreover, once weed is legal, there will be the same amount of demand, but now there will be supply from legitamite businesses. What did we learn in basic economics? Supply Up = Price down. Once the price goes down, gangs will no longer be able to rip people off, and addicts will not be as poor. All in all, the gang rings will no longer sell drugs, and there will be no more competition for it among rival gangs. This results in less violence. Lastly, fewer people being arrested for drug possession means fewer people in jail. Fewer people in jail means less tax payer money spent to fund not only the war on drugs itself, but also the jail systems. In other words by legalizing drugs we get :

1) Freedom of choice
2) Safer drugs
3) Cheaper drugs
4) Less violence
5) Lower taxes

Its just like in the prohabition days with Al Capone, but do we learn? Naturally, the answer is a solid no.

[Locke25]

Ingsoc wrote: soldierofchrist wrote: Ingsoc wrote: I think that drugs that make people go crazy, make them violent, angry, etc... and have ill effects on ones health, should be illegal. Marijuana does none of these. PCP for instance make people think they can do anything, makes them think they are invincible, alcohol does this to a certain extent as well. Marijuana does not, I never once smoked weed and felt that I could fight six guys or jump through a glass window and fly.

Firearms have the same effect, they make people feel more powerful than they really are, gives them a sense of power and invincibility that makes them do things that they normally would not.
No they don't. :lol: I know gun owners, they don't do anything out of the ordinary. And alcohol is dangerous, are you in favor of prohibiting that as well? Knives might make people feel more powerful, let's rid our streets of those. :roll: Driving fast cars might make people do stupid things they wouldn't normally, ban them? Where does it stop?


Exactly, humans have invented a lot of smart devices ehh? What does that say about humanity? Everything we do F**K** something up in some way or another, are we really all that smart and sopfisticated? I'm getting drunk by the way, so yes I love alcohol, but it makes people much mopre crazy than weed does, therefore why should booze be legal and weed not, which is the origianl point here.

Just because we invent knives, cars, guns, etc doesn't mean ALL of humanity is f****d up. Some of us use them for the things they were intended to be used for.

[Jupiter7]

Hey..that's deep.

[minyard]

Legalization of marijuana is a hopeless battle for now.

Too many people have not given even the idea of legalized marijuana, or even for that matter any place in society for marijuana, a reasonable chance. It's still "evil" in the minds of a lot of people, and they won't even consider hearing arguments in its favor. If they won't even listen, what chance does it have?

For example, look at medicinal marijuana. In my opinion, there is a practically water-tight case for marijuana in medical treatment. However, neither the US congress nor the supreme court will give it a fair shake in the free market of ideas. Even the party that supports states' rights snubs its collective nose at states' rights when it comes to medicinal marijuana.

I would love to see marijuana given a fair shake in debate even if it ultimately remains illegal. At least we could say that a rational decision was made and that the will of the people is represented.

Here's a question, what would your grandmother say about legalizing marijuana?

[mathurin]

i only ask that those who use drugs be prevented from receiving any kind of gov aid, my money is to go to people who use their time more wisely than that, in the words of south park

drugs make you feel good with being bored, when you should be out doing something, learning some new skill, if you use drugs you might grow up to find you really arent good at anything


of course having never used i dont know from personal experience, but most of the people i know who do drugs are worthless incompetents

[Ingsoc]

"of course having never used i dont know from personal experience, but most of the people i know who do drugs are worthless incompetents"

LMAO. You just described George W. Bush perfectly

[John Galt]

Ingsoc wrote: Yes, I believe that weed should be legal. WHY?

Firstly, if anyone in the US wants to buy and smoke weed, it is quite easy to do so, therefore, the illegalization of it has been a failure.

You're right -- legalize murder too while we're at it.

What a terribly unintellegent reason.

Quote: Secondly, smoking weed is much more calming and relaxing and American's only legal drug, alcohol. When one gets drunk on booze, it is possible to become angry, depressed, hateful, violent, etc... I have never met anyone that got angry and violent from smoking weed.

And we find the reason for why the first "reason" was so "great."

This too is not a reason.

Quote: Thirdly, there have been no proven ill effects from smoking marijuana. Cigarettes on the other hand have been pr oven to be highly addictive and dangerous to ones health, yet they remain legal.

Cocaine is legal -- if it is proscribed. Dentists use it alot. There are plenty of things that are quite harmful that are legal, and things that are quite saf, but illegal. You don't understand the point of making something illegal, at all.

Quote: Fourthly, the illegalization of marijuana costs US tax payers millions of dollars every year in efforts to stop the buying and selling of the product, which up to tis date has proven to be a complete failure, as I stated earlier if someone wants it, they can get it. Therefore, why should the American public keep paying for a service which basically does not exist.

It isn't a failure, its about a D+. Some of the trade is stopped,which raises the price and forces people to deal with less (or none) at an inflated price, stemming usage. Not alot, but it does to some extent, I admit it. But on the whole, I would say the war on drugs is awaste of money.

My argument is that it is up toeachindividual state to decide these type of matters, as the legalization of any drug is not up to the federal government.No where in the Constitution does it allow for such a thing. See, I just made a reasoned argument. You ought to try it -- and stop smoking weed. It makes you sound like a moron.

[Ingsoc]

John Galt wrote: Ingsoc wrote: Yes, I believe that weed should be legal. WHY?

Firstly, if anyone in the US wants to buy and smoke weed, it is quite easy to do so, therefore, the illegalization of it has been a failure.

You're right -- legalize murder too while we're at it.

What a terribly unintellegent reason.

Quote: Secondly, smoking weed is much more calming and relaxing and American's only legal drug, alcohol. When one gets drunk on booze, it is possible to become angry, depressed, hateful, violent, etc... I have never met anyone that got angry and violent from smoking weed.

And we find the reason for why the first "reason" was so "great."

This too is not a reason.

Quote: Thirdly, there have been no proven ill effects from smoking marijuana. Cigarettes on the other hand have been pr oven to be highly addictive and dangerous to ones health, yet they remain legal.

Cocaine is legal -- if it is proscribed. Dentists use it alot. There are plenty of things that are quite harmful that are legal, and things that are quite saf, but illegal. You don't understand the point of making something illegal, at all.

Quote: Fourthly, the illegalization of marijuana costs US tax payers millions of dollars every year in efforts to stop the buying and selling of the product, which up to tis date has proven to be a complete failure, as I stated earlier if someone wants it, they can get it. Therefore, why should the American public keep paying for a service which basically does not exist.

It isn't a failure, its about a D+. Some of the trade is stopped,which raises the price and forces people to deal with less (or none) at an inflated price, stemming usage. Not alot, but it does to some extent, I admit it. But on the whole, I would say the war on drugs is awaste of money.

My argument is that it is up toeachindividual state to decide these type of matters, as the legalization of any drug is not up to the federal government.No where in the Constitution does it allow for such a thing. See, I just made a reasoned argument. You ought to try it -- and stop smoking weed. It makes you sound like a moron.

Equating the legalization of marijuana to the legalization of murder is probably the stupidest thing that I have ever heard in my life.

The US government hasn't come anywhere near to stopping the trafficking and purchasing of marijuana, and a D+ at any major college or university is considered failing.


I don't smoke weed, I haven't in over a year, so maybe you should understand what your talking about before making alleged comments. Also, I'm glad that the moderators here are mature enough to break out the unprovoked name calling. I will most certainly bring this to attention. Arn't you supposed to set the example, or are you aloud to be a hypocrit?

[mathurin]

Ingsoc wrote: "of course having never used i dont know from personal experience, but most of the people i know who do drugs are worthless incompetents"

LMAO. You just described George W. Bush perfectly

how about this one
"i dont care how many scientists say smoking weed is bad for you, they dont know what they are talking about because they havent smoked it,(pause for thought) and if you can find one who has i wont belive him cause he is burnt out"

pretty much sums it up for me

the people i know who do drugs work fast food, are on welfare, and never stop to think it is their fault because they wont get up and work

i just wish we would stop subsidizing their drug use, i also love it when similar people are talking about how they cant afford this or that or food even, then light up a cigarette

[John Galt]

Ingsoc wrote: John Galt wrote: Ingsoc wrote: Yes, I believe that weed should be legal. WHY?

Firstly, if anyone in the US wants to buy and smoke weed, it is quite easy to do so, therefore, the illegalization of it has been a failure.

You're right -- legalize murder too while we're at it.

What a terribly unintellegent reason.

Quote: Secondly, smoking weed is much more calming and relaxing and American's only legal drug, alcohol. When one gets drunk on booze, it is possible to become angry, depressed, hateful, violent, etc... I have never met anyone that got angry and violent from smoking weed.

And we find the reason for why the first "reason" was so "great."

This too is not a reason.

Quote: Thirdly, there have been no proven ill effects from smoking marijuana. Cigarettes on the other hand have been pr oven to be highly addictive and dangerous to ones health, yet they remain legal.

Cocaine is legal -- if it is proscribed. Dentists use it alot. There are plenty of things that are quite harmful that are legal, and things that are quite saf, but illegal. You don't understand the point of making something illegal, at all.

Quote: Fourthly, the illegalization of marijuana costs US tax payers millions of dollars every year in efforts to stop the buying and selling of the product, which up to tis date has proven to be a complete failure, as I stated earlier if someone wants it, they can get it. Therefore, why should the American public keep paying for a service which basically does not exist.

It isn't a failure, its about a D+. Some of the trade is stopped,which raises the price and forces people to deal with less (or none) at an inflated price, stemming usage. Not alot, but it does to some extent, I admit it. But on the whole, I would say the war on drugs is awaste of money.

My argument is that it is up toeachindividual state to decide these type of matters, as the legalization of any drug is not up to the federal government.No where in the Constitution does it allow for such a thing. See, I just made a reasoned argument. You ought to try it -- and stop smoking weed. It makes you sound like a moron.

Equating the legalization of marijuana to the legalization of murder is probably the stupidest thing that I have ever heard in my life.

You said "if anyone in the US wants to buy and smoke weed, it is quite easy to do so, therefore, the illegalization of it has been a failure."

I could say "if anyone in the US wants to murder another person, it is quite easy to do so, therefore, the illegalization of it has been a failure."

It is why your "argument" is sophistory.

Quote: The US government hasn't come anywhere near to stopping the trafficking and purchasing of marijuana, and a D+ at any major college or university is considered failing.

It is an unknown known. The fact, however, that some is stopped means that it does have an impact. The impact is unknowable because it is impossible at this juncture to test as to whatimpact there is (cant have the experiment and the control be the same thing).

Quote: I don't smoke weed, I haven't in over a year, so maybe you should understand what your talking about before making alleged comments.

Ingsoc, third post, this thread wrote: I never once smoked weed and felt that I could fight six guys or jump through a glass window and fly.

Quote: Also, I'm glad that the moderators here are mature enough to break out the unprovoked name calling. I will most certainly bring this to attention. Arn't you supposed to set the example, or are you aloud to be a hypocrit?

Name-calling? What are you talking about? I said smoking weed makes a person sound like a moron. I guess I was calling drug users who are high on drugs morons (which more likely than not, they are). I support the legalization of weed -- butmore to the point I support a state's right to set what is and what is not legal in their own statewith regards to drugs. I don't care if people smoke weed, I really don't, but whenthey do, and then they proceed to converse with me, they end up sounding like Jay of Clerks fame, aka, a moron.

[minyard]

[quote="mathurin"]
the people i know who do drugs work fast food, are on welfare, and never stop to think it is their fault because they wont get up and work

i just wish we would stop subsidizing their drug use, i also love it when similar people are talking about how they cant afford this or that or food even, then light up a cigarette[/quote]

Your argument has holes as well. Of course there are some people who receive entitlements who waste their money on drugs, but there's 100 other things they could or do waste their money on as well. Your beef is with deadbeats and handout-takers, and I, like you, wish to see less entitlements for unproductive people.

The gap in your argument is declaring every potsmoker a deadbeat. You don't know how many people smoke pot and are perfectly normal contributors to society. Some have argued that there is a "silent majority" of drug users in this country that are just that: productive members of society who happen to use drugs which were made illegal by The Controlled Substances Act (Title II of the Comprehensive Drug Abuse Prevention and Control Act of 1970) 35 years ago. For that matter, you don't really know that the prototypical/obvious pothead wasn't the way he is before ever having smoked pot. Does pot make a person lazy, or do some lazy people smoke pot? Might an already lazy person drink beer, watch tv, sleep in, or any number of other legal things instead of being productive?

[ET Brit]

Ingsoc wrote: Yes, I believe that weed should be legal. WHY?


Thirdly, there have been no proven ill effects from smoking marijuana. Cigarettes on the other hand have been pr oven to be highly addictive and dangerous to ones health, yet they remain legal.



The following list is published by the American Council for Drug Education

Marijuana Dangers

Impaired perception
Diminished short-term memory
Loss of concentration and coordination
Impaired judgement
Increased risk of accidents
Loss of motivation
Diminished inhibitions
Increased heart rate
Anxiety, panic attacks, and paranoia
Hallucinations
Damage to the respiratory, reproductive, and immune systems
Increased risk of cancer
Psychological dependency
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I have a friend who has virtually destroyed himself by heavy use of Marijuana, causing acute paranoia. So sad.

On the other hand, exercise produces wonderful feelings of mental well- being and much improved physical results. Try it, you might like it! :lol:

[mathurin]

ET Brit wrote:
The following list is published by the American Council for Drug Education

Marijuana Dangers

Impaired perception
Diminished short-term memory
Loss of concentration and coordination
Impaired judgement
Increased risk of accidents
Loss of motivation
Diminished inhibitions
Increased heart rate
Anxiety, panic attacks, and paranoia
Hallucinations
Damage to the respiratory, reproductive, and immune systems
Increased risk of cancer
Psychological dependency
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I have a friend who has virtually destroyed himself by heavy use of Marijuana, causing acute paranoia. So sad.

On the other hand, exercise produces wonderful feelings of mental well- being and much improved physical results. Try it, you might like it! :lol:

the people i know who have used tell me it is a mind broadening experience

i personally find reading to be mind expanding and that my perceptions are suitably altered without recourse to substance abuse

someone claimed the "silent majority" of pot users are normal and productive
here comes the problem, prove it
i disagree with you, i say that the side effects of marijuana are such that nobody can use in any reasonable amount or for any lengthy period of time without suffering the above debilitating effects which would, in my opinion, prevent them from doing any job requiring thought or attention, essentially forever relegating them to fast food and other similar menial jobs

prove me wrong, ask your silent majority to show themselves
and finding a few individuals who claim to have been addicted but are now "competent" proffessionals isnt enough
i dont care if someone wants to smoke their brain away, but claiming to the world that doing so does not give you a major chance of being an idiot for the rest of your life is irresponsible and only condemns more stupid kids to more future stupidity and a life of saying "you want fries with that"
not me