Political Crossfire Forums

[Slava]

venator wrote: Slava wrote: Sorry, but I have to repeat: can you give me a real web-link to a Russian credible media site which would ‘not rule out a possibility of Russia using military force against Georgia.’ (i.e. Russia attacking Georgia).

Sorry, but there are no credible Russian medias anymore ;)

The most recent assasinations speak for themselves...

By the way wazup Slava! long time :-D
To make such judgments, you must have recently been to Russia, I suppose. As for Western media, they have always been biased when covering Russian matters and can hardly be considered credible in this respect. So is Novaya Gazeta (where Politkovskaya used to work) and many others, which have no problems with being openly sold and circulate, but are still marginal due to very low demand among Russians for that kind of propaganda.

[venator]

Slava wrote: So is Novaya Gazeta (where Politkovskaya used to work) and many others, which have no problems with being openly sold and circulate, but are still marginal due to very low demand among Russians for that kind of propaganda.

Yes, Russians are more into their governments propaganda, indeed I concur... :-D

If these medias as Novaya Gazeta are so marginal then why the hell was Politkovskaya murdered!?! :-|

[Slava]

venator wrote: Slava wrote: So is Novaya Gazeta (where Politkovskaya used to work) and many others, which have no problems with being openly sold and circulate, but are still marginal due to very low demand among Russians for that kind of propaganda.

Yes, Russians are more into their governments propaganda, indeed I concur... :-D

If these medias as Novaya Gazeta are so marginal then why the hell was Politkovskaya murdered!?! :-|
I also wonder why, because speaking generally, you don't have to necessarily work for that newspaper to be murdered either in Russia or abroad.

[venator]

Slava wrote: venator wrote: Slava wrote: So is Novaya Gazeta (where Politkovskaya used to work) and many others, which have no problems with being openly sold and circulate, but are still marginal due to very low demand among Russians for that kind of propaganda.

Yes, Russians are more into their governments propaganda, indeed I concur... :-D

If these medias as Novaya Gazeta are so marginal then why the hell was Politkovskaya murdered!?! :-|
I also wonder why, because speaking generally, you don't have to necessarily work for that newspaper to be murdered either in Russia or abroad.

What a coincidence :)

The thing is, that Politkovskaya was not the only journalist or person related with the media that was murdered recently - as was in the case of Anatoly Vornonin, ITAR-TASS news agency business chief and reporter.

[Slava]

venator wrote: Slava wrote: venator wrote: Slava wrote: So is Novaya Gazeta (where Politkovskaya used to work) and many others, which have no problems with being openly sold and circulate, but are still marginal due to very low demand among Russians for that kind of propaganda.

Yes, Russians are more into their governments propaganda, indeed I concur... :-D

If these medias as Novaya Gazeta are so marginal then why the hell was Politkovskaya murdered!?! :-|
I also wonder why, because speaking generally, you don't have to necessarily work for that newspaper to be murdered either in Russia or abroad.

What a coincidence :)

The thing is, that Politkovskaya was not the only journalist or person related with the media that was murdered recently - as was in the case of Anatoly Vornonin, ITAR-TASS news agency business chief and reporter.
ITAR-TASS, unlike Novaya Gazeta, is the most official news agency there have ever been in USSR and Russia. Why was he murdered then? Also for criticising Putin?

[venator]

Slava wrote: venator wrote: Slava wrote: venator wrote: Slava wrote: So is Novaya Gazeta (where Politkovskaya used to work) and many others, which have no problems with being openly sold and circulate, but are still marginal due to very low demand among Russians for that kind of propaganda.

Yes, Russians are more into their governments propaganda, indeed I concur... :-D

If these medias as Novaya Gazeta are so marginal then why the hell was Politkovskaya murdered!?! :-|
I also wonder why, because speaking generally, you don't have to necessarily work for that newspaper to be murdered either in Russia or abroad.


What a coincidence :)

The thing is, that Politkovskaya was not the only journalist or person related with the media that was murdered recently - as was in the case of Anatoly Vornonin, ITAR-TASS news agency business chief and reporter.
ITAR-TASS, unlike Novaya Gazeta, is the most official news agency there have ever been in USSR and Russia. Why was he murdered then? Also for criticising Putin?

That is a good question Slava. :wink: Or perhaps he wasnt an odedient worker of the regime... In any case, we will probably never know. :-| Just like in Paul Klebnikov´s (the murdered Russian Forbes editor) case...

[battleax86]

Slava wrote: battleax86 wrote:
As a general definition, yes, but not the way that we have applied it. For example, when Iraq invaded Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, that was a threat to our national security because of our relationship with those two countries.
Iraq never invaded Saudi Arabia, neither did it invade Kuwait in 2003.
Iraq did invade Saudi Arabia. Look up the Battle of Khafji. Secondly, Iraq's first invasion of Kuwait led to the war going on today. If they had abided by their 1991 cease-fire, we wouldn't have troops in Iraq.

Slava wrote: Quote: Slava wrote: As for sanctions, we generally also don't push for them for whatever reason. Georgia is a special case - an openly hostile towrads Russia country, which keeps breaking international agreements.
They're breaking international agreements? Why are Russian troops still in Georgia, seven years after Russia agreed to remove them? Also, do you think that Russian support for the Abkhazians, Ajarians, or South Ossetians has anything to do with the strained relations between Russia and Georgia?
At any rate, none of this justifies Russian sanctions because Georgia arrested two Russian soldiers who were spying on them.
Russian troops are still in Georgia because they are due to leave by 2008. The withdrawal goes ahead of schedule.
The agreement was made in 1999. Russian troops aren't engaged in any sort of combat. Why is it taking them 9 years to withdraw?

Slava wrote: As for Abkhazians and South Ossetians, 90% of them are Russian citizens;
Yes, after most of the Georgian population was ethnically cleansed and Russia began offering citizenship while claiming to be neutral.

Slava wrote: plus those two regions have never in histrory been the part of an independent Georgia. They joined the USSR independently, and it was Stalin (who was Georgian) who "attached" them to Georgia.
That's not true. The Russians took over Georgia in the 19th century. When the Communists took over in 1917, Georgia (which included Abkhazia and South Ossetia) declared independence and remained independent until the Bolsheviks invaded in 1921. Abkhazia was then made a "union republic" associated with the Georgia SSR until Stalin made it autonomous in 1931.

Tell me, what do you suppose Moscow's reaction would be if Georgia started assisting the Chechens?

Slava wrote: As for sanctions, Russian top officials have many times reiterated that these sanctions are not specifically in response to the arrest of our 4 officers.
Not the already-existing sanctions, but the severing of transportation and postal links had everything to do with the arrests.

[venator]

Battleax86, u basically threw in the other arguments that I was gonna bombard Slava with... :-D Good points.