Political Crossfire Forums

FrozenFlame · Joined: 30 Jun 2006 Posts: 6

www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/09/28/legal_residents_rights_curbed_in_detainee_bill/

Great... our rights are being stripped by the second. I won't be surprised when these are allowed on American Citizens. If only citizens cared...well...discuss.

lilwolf · Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 14180 Location: idaho

Most all of the so called fear is simply that ...unwarranted fear. The other side opposing this is going to make a huge mountain out of a mole hill.

99% hype and BS. If this gets a handle on the illegals here that have fake green cards (and there is a lot) then so much the better, they will be rounded up and deported. So, I figure that is a good thing to get a better handle on who is here legally and who is not. If a green card worker is here legally he/she has nothing to worry about, unless they break the law.
Legal immigrants fine. Students here on visa if you do not keep your paperwork up ...guess what you are gone too. I think it is great and a good method and way to clean up the house. We do not know how many illegal aliens are here or how many bad guys are here either, so what ever it takes to round them up and ship them back , so much the better.
After all, they are not actual americans...those with visas and green cards anyway, so why should our rights as americans apply to them.
If they are not wanted here... kick them out. pretty simple. :-D

moody · Joined: 05 Jun 2006 Posts: 156 Location: Somewhere in time

FrozenFlame wrote: www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/09/28/legal_residents_rights_curbed_in_detainee_bill/

Great... our rights are being stripped by the second. I won't be surprised when these are allowed on American Citizens. If only citizens cared...well...discuss.

Well said.
People label this nation as nations of heros and yada yada. You do anything and you're hero. You get wounded in war you're hero. You save a cat from the tree and you're hero.It's very easy to be hero in US, but when it comes to actualy standing up to the government this nation crawles back to it's safe corner and watches stuff happens. Just like watching a senate pass this law today. It will alway happen and it never happened easier then in the last 6 years. In other countries, governemnt like this one wouldn't lasted a month, let alone 6 years.

Fido · Joined: 16 Mar 2006 Posts: 3936

Today, John McCain, the tortured, became a torturer. I wonder how it feels to lose your morality to expedience, bit by bit, like the German General staff. Do you get up some morning and say: Today; to keep what I have, as little as it is, there is nothing I will not do to man before God. My fears are founded in my recognition of a human identity, superior to and previous to my citizenship in the U.S. I can see what the mindless grasping after power has done to other nations. It has lost them all their moral credibility. And now we legalize torture. All we will find out from those we interrogate is that we deserve the destruction we invite. God save us!

00timh · Joined: 08 Nov 2004 Posts: 13037 Location: upstate NY

FrozenFlame wrote: www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/09/28/legal_residents_rights_curbed_in_detainee_bill/

Great... our rights are being stripped by the second. I won't be surprised when these are allowed on American Citizens. If only citizens cared...well...discuss. Not our rights. We are just helping to secure the country from terrorists.

You will have to excuse me if I don't share your sympathy of those who have aided or participated in the killing of innocent people. I care more about them.

98MustGT · Joined: 05 Oct 2005 Posts: 380 Location: Occupied San Diego

00timh wrote: FrozenFlame wrote: www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/09/28/legal_residents_rights_curbed_in_detainee_bill/

Great... our rights are being stripped by the second. I won't be surprised when these are allowed on American Citizens. If only citizens cared...well...discuss. Not our rights. We are just helping to secure the country from terrorists.

You will have to excuse me if I don't share your sympathy of those who have aided or participated in the killing of innocent people. I care more about them.

A voice of reason.

lilwolf · Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 14180 Location: idaho

00timh wrote: FrozenFlame wrote: www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/09/28/legal_residents_rights_curbed_in_detainee_bill/

Great... our rights are being stripped by the second. I won't be surprised when these are allowed on American Citizens. If only citizens cared...well...discuss. Not our rights. We are just helping to secure the country from terrorists.

You will have to excuse me if I don't share your sympathy of those who have aided or participated in the killing of innocent people. I care more about them.

You get the gold star.....

Moracca · Joined: 20 Jun 2006 Posts: 2821 Location: ar-Raba, KOM

The passing of the Military Commissions Act of 2006 is some of the best news I've heard in a month! :woo:

I've been reading it off and on all day (its long) and I'm really having a hard time figuring out why so many people are upset with it. It clearly lays out who is eligible to be tried by military commission and American citizens are not among those eligible.

This is a bright day in the WoT! :-D

lilwolf · Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 14180 Location: idaho

Moracca wrote: The passing of the Military Commissions Act of 2006 is some of the best news I've heard in a month! :woo:

I've been reading it off and on all day (its long) and I'm really having a hard time figuring out why so many people are upset with it. It clearly lays out who is eligible to be tried by military commission and American citizens are not among those eligible.

This is a bright day in the WoT! :-D

You beat me to it ....i just came across that a little while ago.... indeed great news
Moracca you get the gold stars today..... you have made my day..

puffin · Joined: 24 Jun 2006 Posts: 1053

A Fox news reporter just came back from Gitmo. He was interviewed on 'The Big Story' last Friday afternoon. If you MUST have PROOF simply go find the 'link' at Foxnews.com.
The reporter showed a video clip of the 'special chair' used in the 'interogation room'. He actually was shown sitting in it. It must have given him 'the creeps' to know what must be going on with 'detainees' while in that chair. I'll bet he was on the phone to Jimmy Carter the moment he got home. Oh by the way, the 'interogation chair' is a LAZY BOY'!!!!!!!!!!!
He also noted that the 'detainees' had 24/7 medical and dental care and had a daily diet 'rationed out' of 4500 calories.
I here Carter is going to the UN to accuse the US of using 'torture' on the homeless in the US by not offering them free stays at Gitmo.
There's soccer/volleyball/ping pong board games. The only catch is you have to was your hands after you throw your sh*t at the guards before you can touch the ping pong paddles.

dpawkng · Joined: 29 Sep 2006 Posts: 402 Location: Washington

ahhh thank you, I just love it how all the truth is coming out about it and now the starter of this thread has nothing to say...hes probably just trying find out how much money we could save by cutting defense spending...

FrozenFlame · Joined: 30 Jun 2006 Posts: 6

They took out the words "Outside of America" at the last second. That just seems a little strange. I mean this law was met for Guatmo, right. If these laws can go from Guatmo to Green Card Carriers, why can't it go from them to Americans? I doubt the public would do anything about it anyway.
I don't share sympathy for those who try and hurt Americans. I share sympathy for those who were on the wrong road at the wrong time, and now have to spend years of their lives stuck in a prison. Even if they are given '4500 calories per day' do you think that matters? How would you feel if you were taken away from your family, your friends, etc, and brought to this prison? BTW I don't think they want to play ping pong after they get their toenails ripped out, one by one.
American Citizens can't be tried now, but wait. Now this law is a molehill, I agree. Molehills can be kicked down with relative ease, until they become mountains.

lilwolf · Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 14180 Location: idaho

FrozenFlame wrote: They took out the words "Outside of America" at the last second. That just seems a little strange. I mean this law was met for Guatmo, right. If these laws can go from Guatmo to Green Card Carriers, why can't it go from them to Americans? I doubt the public would do anything about it anyway.
I don't share sympathy for those who try and hurt Americans. I share sympathy for those who were on the wrong road at the wrong time, and now have to spend years of their lives stuck in a prison. Even if they are given '4500 calories per day' do you think that matters? How would you feel if you were taken away from your family, your friends, etc, and brought to this prison? BTW I don't think they want to play ping pong after they get their toenails ripped out, one by one.
American Citizens can't be tried now, but wait. Now this law is a molehill, I agree. Molehills can be kicked down with relative ease, until they become mountains.

These clowns at gitmo are not having their toe nails ripped out. That's the biggest line of BS around. They are treated better in there than they would be if they were in the present abu grahib. I have no sympathy in that they were not picked up for just being on the wrong road at the wrong time. You are gonna be hard pressed to find any that are truly innocent out of all of them.
This whole line of BS that people spew out about brutal torture is a joke, and they do get better treatment than our own american prosoners get in american jails and prisons.

kiss_armyman1 · Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:55 am Post subject:

I totally agree !You cant sit for months on end making , mean faces at people ,who want to kill you,and expect to get information out of them. :x

As long as these people arent being beaten up and burned with ciggarettes , people need to get over it!

AKAMad · Joined: 20 Feb 2006 Posts: 307 Location: Birmingham

GWB now has more power than King John :!:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,1884351,00.html

lilwolf · Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 14180 Location: idaho

I say good. It is a war and what do you do with detainees and POW's, you keep them locked away till the end of the war.

They are not being mistreated at all. So, if they have to set for awhile then so be it. Better to have them locked up than being turned back onto the field of battle.

puffin · Joined: 24 Jun 2006 Posts: 1053

"I want to talk to Jimmy! The handle on my recliner isn't working!"
What a bunch of crap.
Make a video of the 'detainees' at Gitmo eating nice juicy pork chops with drips coming down their chins and big toothy smilies on their faces. Make a few thousand copies and air drop them alone the Iraq and Pakeistsan border and send the tape to the ME pro Islamofacist TV networks. Watch the Arab "street" 'react' then. LOL

00timh · Joined: 08 Nov 2004 Posts: 13037 Location: upstate NY

What happened at Abu Gharib should not have happened. The soldiers who were running it were disgracing the U.S. because what they were doing was over the top. They were doing the things they were doing purely for their own enjoyment. Unfortunately people have been planted these images (which the U.S. government never condoned and put a stop to) and feel that GITMO is probably being run in some of the same manner.

As for interrogation methods....

If those of you who feel that what is going on is unjustified, with your expertise in interrogation, how should we be interrogating these prisoners? what are the most effective methods?

For the big fish that undoubtedly have information that is vital to preventing future terrorist attacks, how far would you go in order to stop say a nuclear detonation or massive biological attack?

Numerous terrorist attacks have been foiled due to the practices of surveillance which was carried out by British intelligence and our interrogation techniques in GITMO that many liberals and others vehemently disagree with.

Would we have really been better off with the airline industry being crippled and thousands of people dieing when several planes simultaneously exploded over the mid Atlantic? Or the terrorist plot which was foiled that would have taken down the tallest buildings in California, killing thousands and making downtown L.A. into a disaster zone? Besides the massive loss of life, think of the economic impacts this country would have again suffered. While we should not live in fear, when America is repeatedly attacked with thousands dying our economy is ruins and major metropolitan areas destroyed, is that really the better alternative?

lilwolf · Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 14180 Location: idaho

00timh wrote: What happened at Abu Gharib should not have happened. The soldiers who were running it were disgracing the U.S. because what they were doing was over the top. They were doing the things they were doing purely for their own enjoyment. Unfortunately people have been planted these images (which the U.S. government never condoned and put a stop to) and feel that GITMO is probably being run in some of the same manner.

As for interrogation methods....

If those of you who feel that what is going on is unjustified, with your expertise in interrogation, how should we be interrogating these prisoners? what are the most effective methods?

For the big fish that undoubtedly have information that is vital to preventing future terrorist attacks, how far would you go in order to stop say a nuclear detonation or massive biological attack?

Numerous terrorist attacks have been foiled due to the practices of surveillance which was carried out by British intelligence and our interrogation techniques in GITMO that many liberals and others vehemently disagree with.

Would we have really been better off with the airline industry being crippled and thousands of people dieing when several planes simultaneously exploded over the mid Atlantic? Or the terrorist plot which was foiled that would have taken down the tallest buildings in California, killing thousands and making downtown L.A. into a disaster zone? Besides the massive loss of life, think of the economic impacts this country would have again suffered. While we should not live in fear, when America is repeatedly attacked with thousands dying our economy is ruins and major metropolitan areas destroyed, is that really the better alternative?

There are numerous drugs that work quite well and they are very effective. There ar alot of ways short of nailing a guys nuts to a chair to extract information. Really very simple, he gets a shot and he answers questions, he can't help it. There are 15 or 20 truth serums out there and they all work good.
Information can also be gotten with simple tacics called scaring the s*** out of the prisoner.
Pieces and parts do not have to be removed to gather intell.

But I should say this.... If I knew for sure that the prisoner had intell that was firm and the location of a planted nuke in an american city or any city in the world that was going to go off and killl thousands or whatever number of innocent people. I would take whatever steps to get that information...no matter what it took. He would talk and I would have my info.