Political Crossfire Forums

[britboy]

Why don't they scrape into (whats the word?) all bullets the purchasers name at time of purchase?

It would cost relatively little .. and make it an offense to carry any ammo without your initials on it?

If criminals scrape their initials off or give the wrong name, it gives the police an opportunity to arrest them before they've gone and shot someone.

The only downer is you couldn't sell/give ammo to friends, but I can't imagine this is a particularly awful is it ??

The way I see it it simply would make the criminals life somewhat more complex, with not much grief for the gun-toting citizens.

(pro-gunners -- this is not an attack on your liberty)

[airo]

Because, it's stupid and wouldn't make anyone safer. The only thing it would do would turn more good people into accidental criminals.

First off, i shoot (On average) 500 rounds per range trip. Most of the time, that 500 rounds is purchased within a 24 hours period of time. Are you telling me i have to go inscribe my intials (Of which, there's literally millions of people with the same.) onto EVERY bullet before i promptly send it down range?

Then there's the fact that you can't do this with shotguns, that hollowpoints have a tendency to fragment, and a very large amount of rifle AND pistol ammunition is specficially designed to fragment and shed their copper jacket upon impact.

Basically, what you're purposing is only to make people feel safer without actually doing it. Similarly to regulations at the airport--none of them REALLY make you safer, they just manage to convince you that you are. People see pointless bulls**t being done, and think to themselves "Well, if you HAVE to have a ticket to go past the terminal, that MUST make me safer!" as if a terrorist couldn't simply buy a plane ticket.

Not to mention, so you honestly think a criminal would adhere to this? They wouldn't. It's illegal to carry drugs around--but people do it anyway. Hell, for the overwhelming majority of criminals who commit crimes with their handguns IT'S ILLEGAL FOR THEM TO POSSES THE SAID FIREARM in some way (Either they don't have a CCW, the gun is stolen, they're a prior felon, or something along those lines.), yet they don't care.

[britboy]

airo wrote: Because, it's stupid and wouldn't make anyone safer. The only thing it would do would turn more good people into accidental criminals.

First off, i shoot (On average) 500 rounds per range trip. Most of the time, that 500 rounds is purchased within a 24 hours period of time. Are you telling me i have to go inscribe my intials (Of which, there's literally millions of people with the same.) onto EVERY bullet before i promptly send it down range?

Then there's the fact that you can't do this with shotguns, that hollowpoints have a tendency to fragment, and a very large amount of rifle AND pistol ammunition is specficially designed to fragment and shed their copper jacket upon impact.

Basically, what you're purposing is only to make people feel safer without actually doing it. Similarly to regulations at the airport--none of them REALLY make you safer, they just manage to convince you that you are. People see pointless bulls**t being done, and think to themselves "Well, if you HAVE to have a ticket to go past the terminal, that MUST make me safer!" as if a terrorist couldn't simply buy a plane ticket.

Not to mention, so you honestly think a criminal would adhere to this? They wouldn't. It's illegal to carry drugs around--but people do it anyway. Hell, for the overwhelming majority of criminals who commit crimes with their handguns IT'S ILLEGAL FOR THEM TO POSSES THE SAID FIREARM in some way (Either they don't have a CCW, the gun is stolen, they're a prior felon, or something along those lines.), yet they don't care.

Oh yea. Didn't think of that lot. :!oops: oh well.


If there *was* some way of quickly and easily tagging a bullet to a person (OK the technology may currently be impossible, but if in the future they found a way) .. would you agree or would you have privacy or other issues with it?

[airo]

britboy wrote: airo wrote: Because, it's stupid and wouldn't make anyone safer. The only thing it would do would turn more good people into accidental criminals.

First off, i shoot (On average) 500 rounds per range trip. Most of the time, that 500 rounds is purchased within a 24 hours period of time. Are you telling me i have to go inscribe my intials (Of which, there's literally millions of people with the same.) onto EVERY bullet before i promptly send it down range?

Then there's the fact that you can't do this with shotguns, that hollowpoints have a tendency to fragment, and a very large amount of rifle AND pistol ammunition is specficially designed to fragment and shed their copper jacket upon impact.

Basically, what you're purposing is only to make people feel safer without actually doing it. Similarly to regulations at the airport--none of them REALLY make you safer, they just manage to convince you that you are. People see pointless bulls**t being done, and think to themselves "Well, if you HAVE to have a ticket to go past the terminal, that MUST make me safer!" as if a terrorist couldn't simply buy a plane ticket.

Not to mention, so you honestly think a criminal would adhere to this? They wouldn't. It's illegal to carry drugs around--but people do it anyway. Hell, for the overwhelming majority of criminals who commit crimes with their handguns IT'S ILLEGAL FOR THEM TO POSSES THE SAID FIREARM in some way (Either they don't have a CCW, the gun is stolen, they're a prior felon, or something along those lines.), yet they don't care.

Oh yea. Didn't think of that lot. :!oops: oh well.


If there *was* some way of quickly and easily tagging a bullet to a person (OK the technology may currently be impossible, but if in the future they found a way) .. would you agree or would you have privacy or other issues with it?

They've attempted it before. The technology is cost prohibitive. Can it be done? Yes. But it would make the already high price of ammunition skyrocket even further.

There's a lot of people who shoot much more than i do. I know a few guys personally that deposit over 1,000 rounds of ammunition (Well over 200 dollars worth.) down range every time they practice. These aren't rich individuals, they're either dedicated to guncraft, or their livelihood depends on their skills with their weapons. Remember, there's plenty of people in the world who do military-like operations without actually being in the military proper. Not to mention there's PLENTY of police departments that force their officers to practice on their own dime. Then there's also the fact that the citizen has JUST as much right (If not MORE of a right.) to be prepared for armed conflict as a police officer, or military personnel.

Britboy, i'm not sure you know this, but i would say the overwhelming majority of ammunition sold in the U.S. is sent downrange either for practice, or for fun.

Making ammunition cost prohibitive for the average citizen on purpose is a violation of the second amendment.

[perdidochas]

britboy wrote: Why don't they scrape into (whats the word?) all bullets the purchasers name at time of purchase?

It would cost relatively little .. and make it an offense to carry any ammo without your initials on it?

If criminals scrape their initials off or give the wrong name, it gives the police an opportunity to arrest them before they've gone and shot someone.
Hmm, in terms of handgun ammunition, when I buy it, I buy in boxes of 50. Also, if I'm a criminal, I'm going to file off (or change) those initials as soon as I get home.

If I'm a criminal, and I already have an illegal gun, and it's loaded with ammunition that I scraped the initials off of, if they can find my ammunition, shouldn't they take my gun first?

Are you truly that devoid of common sense.

britboy wrote: The only downer is you couldn't sell/give ammo to friends, but I can't imagine this is a particularly awful is it ??

If I were to go out right now, I could get the equipment necessary to cast my own bullets in about an hour. I can cast bullets using my kitchen stove, some lead, and a mold. If I were a bit handier with machining tools, I could MAKE a mold for bullets in a couple of hours, and I can get my lead from wheel balancing weights. If I can do it, don't you think that the same people who make their own meth could do this fairly easily as well?

britboy wrote: The way I see it it simply would make the criminals life somewhat more complex, with not much grief for the gun-toting citizens.

Hmm, buy a box of 50 rounds of handgun ammunition, wait at least 30 minutes for the engraving? That is not grief?

britboy wrote: (pro-gunners -- this is not an attack on your liberty)

Of course it is.

[perdidochas]

britboy wrote: airo wrote: Because, it's stupid and wouldn't make anyone safer. The only thing it would do would turn more good people into accidental criminals.

First off, i shoot (On average) 500 rounds per range trip. Most of the time, that 500 rounds is purchased within a 24 hours period of time. Are you telling me i have to go inscribe my intials (Of which, there's literally millions of people with the same.) onto EVERY bullet before i promptly send it down range?

Then there's the fact that you can't do this with shotguns, that hollowpoints have a tendency to fragment, and a very large amount of rifle AND pistol ammunition is specficially designed to fragment and shed their copper jacket upon impact.

Basically, what you're purposing is only to make people feel safer without actually doing it. Similarly to regulations at the airport--none of them REALLY make you safer, they just manage to convince you that you are. People see pointless bulls**t being done, and think to themselves "Well, if you HAVE to have a ticket to go past the terminal, that MUST make me safer!" as if a terrorist couldn't simply buy a plane ticket.

Not to mention, so you honestly think a criminal would adhere to this? They wouldn't. It's illegal to carry drugs around--but people do it anyway. Hell, for the overwhelming majority of criminals who commit crimes with their handguns IT'S ILLEGAL FOR THEM TO POSSES THE SAID FIREARM in some way (Either they don't have a CCW, the gun is stolen, they're a prior felon, or something along those lines.), yet they don't care.

Oh yea. Didn't think of that lot. :!oops: oh well.


If there *was* some way of quickly and easily tagging a bullet to a person (OK the technology may currently be impossible, but if in the future they found a way) .. would you agree or would you have privacy or other issues with it?

The other side to it is that ammunition lasts a long time. I've read in gun magazines about gun writers who have gotten some WWII surplus ammunition. About 99% of the rounds fired. If 60 yr old ammunition still works, isn't this whole contention ridiculous? Also, criminals typically don't use ammunition in nearly the quantities that target shooters and hobbyists do. It would adversely affect target shooters immensely.

In terms of "serial numbering" ammunition, it would be cost prohibitive, and the database implications are staggering. Also, what to do about target ammunition? If I shoot 50 rounds at a firing range, what's to stop Joe Schmo Criminal from going to the backdrop of the range, and recycling my bullets, as well as that of the 50 other people who have used that range in the past 2 months. He then can reload the bullets, and totally screw up any investigation.

[britboy]

Quote:
If I'm a criminal, and I already have an illegal gun, and it's loaded with ammunition that I scraped the initials off of, if they can find my ammunition, shouldn't they take my gun first?

Are you truly that devoid of common sense.


That was a bit harsh!

I was talking about a guy with a legal gun, getting ready to shoot someone so he's filed the initials off.

They get to arrest him then. Before he shoots the person.

Anyway I've already conceeded. I did the post because I couldn't remember the arguments against. I knew the arguments did exist (otherwise it would happen!). So relax a little :)

[Wolverine]

w00t! I want to pay the gun store a fortune to inscribe my name and address into a case of 1,000 round! :roll:

[perdidochas]

britboy wrote: Quote:
If I'm a criminal, and I already have an illegal gun, and it's loaded with ammunition that I scraped the initials off of, if they can find my ammunition, shouldn't they take my gun first?

Are you truly that devoid of common sense.


That was a bit harsh!

But it's so true. Sorry for the harshness, but reality is harsh.

britboy wrote: I was talking about a guy with a legal gun, getting ready to shoot someone so he's filed the initials off.

They get to arrest him then. Before he shoots the person.

You mean somehow an alarm goes off that he filed the initials off? Are there going to be daily inspections of ammunition? Let's say the shooter decides Friday night to file off the initials, and then Saturday morning, shoots his victims. Do you truly think the cops are going to find out he filed off those letters in that short time? Again, are you truly that devoid of common sense?

britboy wrote: Anyway I've already conceeded. I did the post because I couldn't remember the arguments against. I knew the arguments did exist (otherwise it would happen!). So relax a little :)

Think before you type. If you can't take the heat for what you write, don't post it.

[britboy]

Quote: Again, are you truly that devoid of common sense?

You're gonna give your kid a loaded gun one day as a present!
:shock: As a present? You can't make stuff like that up! It's just astounding. Astonishing. I can't think of a single object on the planet that is a less suitable present for a child! Nothing! Yet you talk to me about common sense!!

Anyway, we digress ...

[airo]

My dad gave me a Taurus 24/7 Pro for my birthday last year...

[lilwolf]

Britboy the initial thing is not cost effective as has been pointed out.

Another reason is that many times a bullet on impact flattens out and sometimes breaks up into many pieces.
I shoot 500 to 700 rounds every time I go to the range and I reload my own ammo most of the time.

as an example here for cost. Lets say I spend 12bucks for a box of 50 shells and I shoot 500 rounds. $120.00 bucks. Now add in say 1.00 per initals on each bullet. Thats another 500.00 dollars. Not cost effective.

I reload at a third of the 12 bucks for 50 shells.

Ballistic tracking on the bore of a weapon is not going to work either because over a time the bore (rifling) wears down so that's out.

Just won't work any way you do it.

[Winchester]

perdidochas wrote:
In terms of "serial numbering" ammunition, it would be cost prohibitive, and the database implications are staggering. Also, what to do about target ammunition? If I shoot 50 rounds at a firing range, what's to stop Joe Schmo Criminal from going to the backdrop of the range, and recycling my bullets, as well as that of the 50 other people who have used that range in the past 2 months. He then can reload the bullets, and totally screw up any investigation.

Reload the bullets after they've been fired? I can't think of any conceivable way this could be done.

[lilwolf]

Not with out melting them down and then you got a basic lead wad cutter type and again no initials because they melt away.

[Winchester]

britboy wrote: Quote: Again, are you truly that devoid of common sense?

You're gonna give your kid a loaded gun one day as a present!
:shock: As a present? You can't make stuff like that up! It's just astounding. Astonishing. I can't think of a single object on the planet that is a less suitable present for a child! Nothing! Yet you talk to me about common sense!!

Anyway, we digress ...

Heck I've bought all my kids guns. My daughter has a .243 and a .22, My oldest son has a .270, 12ga and a .22, and my youngest son has a 12ga, a .22 and I will get him a .270 next year.

[Winchester]

lilwolf wrote: Not with out melting them down and then you got a basic lead wad cutter type and again no initials because they melt away.

Yep and even then I would be hesitant to do that unless they were lead bullets without the copper jackets. I'ld don't know how well they'ld melt down with the copper impurities.

[Winchester]

I'ld also like to know how they would plan on initializing my shotgun shell pellets, lol.

[micfranklin]

britboy wrote: Why don't they scrape into (whats the word?) all bullets the purchasers name at time of purchase?

It would cost relatively little .. and make it an offense to carry any ammo without your initials on it?

If criminals scrape their initials off or give the wrong name, it gives the police an opportunity to arrest them before they've gone and shot someone.

The only downer is you couldn't sell/give ammo to friends, but I can't imagine this is a particularly awful is it ??

The way I see it it simply would make the criminals life somewhat more complex, with not much grief for the gun-toting citizens.

(pro-gunners -- this is not an attack on your liberty)

That's a pretty stupid idea. Why? Because if someone were to steal your gun and kill someone for no reason, you can always get framed for it, since it has your initials on it.

[perdidochas]

britboy wrote: Quote: Again, are you truly that devoid of common sense?

You're gonna give your kid a loaded gun one day as a present!
:shock: As a present? You can't make stuff like that up! It's just astounding. Astonishing. I can't think of a single object on the planet that is a less suitable present for a child! Nothing! Yet you talk to me about common sense!!

Anyway, we digress ...

Not a loaded gun. The ammunition will be separate. Most men my age in the South were given guns and ammunition for our birthday at one point in our lives or another. Guess what? For the great majority of us, the only thing ever harmed with those guns were squirrels, rabbits, doves and deer. How is that an affront to common sense, like the idea that somehow, people who scrape the inititials off of ammunition will be instantly caught by the police? Think a little. You're brighter than that. Why don't you wait to post when you're sober?

As the stats show (see yesterday's major thread), kids who have been given guns by a responsible parent are implicated in almost no gun crime.

[Winchester]

micfranklin wrote: britboy wrote: Why don't they scrape into (whats the word?) all bullets the purchasers name at time of purchase?

It would cost relatively little .. and make it an offense to carry any ammo without your initials on it?

If criminals scrape their initials off or give the wrong name, it gives the police an opportunity to arrest them before they've gone and shot someone.

The only downer is you couldn't sell/give ammo to friends, but I can't imagine this is a particularly awful is it ??

The way I see it it simply would make the criminals life somewhat more complex, with not much grief for the gun-toting citizens.

(pro-gunners -- this is not an attack on your liberty)

That's a pretty stupid idea. Why? Because if someone were to steal your gun and kill someone for no reason, you can always get framed for it, since it has your initials on it.

Assuming the initials even survive the impact which I doubt would happen.