Political Crossfire Forums

[Mighty Oak]

http://wakeupfromyourslumber.blogspot.com/2006/09/power-of-suggestion.html


This is a History channel documentary about the U.S. government mind control experiments.

[agentkgb]

I doubt that it is as usable as the blog suggests.

[Zennious]

This seems a little "out there"

[Mighty Oak]

Zennious wrote: This seems a little "out there"
Maybe you should do some research.

[agentkgb]

Mighty Oak wrote: Zennious wrote: This seems a little "out there"
Maybe you should do some research.
Do you have some links in particular you think people should check out or should we just google "mind control"?
I'll believe that government agencies have experimented with mind control, but not successfully.

[Mighty Oak]

agentkgb wrote: Mighty Oak wrote: Zennious wrote: This seems a little "out there"
Maybe you should do some research.
Do you have some links in particular you think people should check out or should we just google "mind control"?
I'll believe that government agencies have experimented with mind control, but not successfully. I would say that there is ample evidence to show that this is very real and also far more advanced


If your interested,there is plenty of info for you to discover.

[agentkgb]

Mighty Oak wrote: agentkgb wrote: Mighty Oak wrote: Zennious wrote: This seems a little "out there"
Maybe you should do some research.
Do you have some links in particular you think people should check out or should we just google "mind control"?
I'll believe that government agencies have experimented with mind control, but not successfully. I would say that there is ample evidence to show that this is very real and also far more advanced


If your interested,there is plenty of info for you to discover.
So I should just google for "mind control" or another similar term? You can talk about ample eivdence all you want but I'm not going to believe anything that comes my way through a Google search (or a BlackBoxSearch, whatever). I like facts.

[Mighty Oak]

agentkgb wrote: Mighty Oak wrote: agentkgb wrote: Mighty Oak wrote: Zennious wrote: This seems a little "out there"
Maybe you should do some research.
Do you have some links in particular you think people should check out or should we just google "mind control"?
I'll believe that government agencies have experimented with mind control, but not successfully. I would say that there is ample evidence to show that this is very real and also far more advanced


If your interested,there is plenty of info for you to discover.
So I should just google for "mind control" or another similar term? You can talk about ample eivdence all you want but I'm not going to believe anything that comes my way through a Google search (or a BlackBoxSearch, whatever). I like facts. I'm sure you are intelligent enough to be able to decifer what the truth is.You don't think you can find facts on the internet?Come now,ever hear of the freedom of information act?

[agentkgb]

Mighty Oak wrote: agentkgb wrote: Mighty Oak wrote: agentkgb wrote: Mighty Oak wrote: Zennious wrote: This seems a little "out there"
Maybe you should do some research.
Do you have some links in particular you think people should check out or should we just google "mind control"?
I'll believe that government agencies have experimented with mind control, but not successfully. I would say that there is ample evidence to show that this is very real and also far more advanced


If your interested,there is plenty of info for you to discover.
So I should just google for "mind control" or another similar term? You can talk about ample eivdence all you want but I'm not going to believe anything that comes my way through a Google search (or a BlackBoxSearch, whatever). I like facts. I'm sure you are intelligent enough to be able to decifer what the truth is.You don't think you can find facts on the internet?Come now,ever hear of the freedom of information act?
First of all, at least I'm bright enough to spell "decipher." Second, if it's a huge government conspiracy, why would the government release such information? Third of all, I'm not arguing that it hasn't been tried, I'm arguing that it hasn't been successful, and the fact that some guy with enough cash to buy the domain name "www.government-conspiracies.com" or something similar says that it has been successful does not make it true.

[Mighty Oak]

agentkgb wrote: Mighty Oak wrote: agentkgb wrote: Mighty Oak wrote: agentkgb wrote: Mighty Oak wrote: Zennious wrote: This seems a little "out there"
Maybe you should do some research.
Do you have some links in particular you think people should check out or should we just google "mind control"?
I'll believe that government agencies have experimented with mind control, but not successfully. I would say that there is ample evidence to show that this is very real and also far more advanced


If your interested,there is plenty of info for you to discover.
So I should just google for "mind control" or another similar term? You can talk about ample eivdence all you want but I'm not going to believe anything that comes my way through a Google search (or a BlackBoxSearch, whatever). I like facts. I'm sure you are intelligent enough to be able to decifer what the truth is.You don't think you can find facts on the internet?Come now,ever hear of the freedom of information act?
First of all, at least I'm bright enough to spell "decipher." Second, if it's a huge government conspiracy, why would the government release such information? Third of all, I'm not arguing that it hasn't been tried, I'm arguing that it hasn't been successful, and the fact that some guy with enough cash to buy the domain name "www.government-conspiracies.com" or something similar says that it has been successful does not make it true. And here I was being nice and you take a dig at me.Expand your mind,not everything is black and white.

[agentkgb]

Mighty Oak wrote: agentkgb wrote: Mighty Oak wrote: agentkgb wrote: Mighty Oak wrote: agentkgb wrote: Mighty Oak wrote: Zennious wrote: This seems a little "out there"
Maybe you should do some research.
Do you have some links in particular you think people should check out or should we just google "mind control"?
I'll believe that government agencies have experimented with mind control, but not successfully. I would say that there is ample evidence to show that this is very real and also far more advanced


If your interested,there is plenty of info for you to discover.
So I should just google for "mind control" or another similar term? You can talk about ample eivdence all you want but I'm not going to believe anything that comes my way through a Google search (or a BlackBoxSearch, whatever). I like facts. I'm sure you are intelligent enough to be able to decifer what the truth is.You don't think you can find facts on the internet?Come now,ever hear of the freedom of information act?
First of all, at least I'm bright enough to spell "decipher." Second, if it's a huge government conspiracy, why would the government release such information? Third of all, I'm not arguing that it hasn't been tried, I'm arguing that it hasn't been successful, and the fact that some guy with enough cash to buy the domain name "www.government-conspiracies.com" or something similar says that it has been successful does not make it true. And here I was being nice and you take a dig at me.Expand your mind,not everything is black and white.
I still want a link. If you can support your view with factual information, great I'd love to hear it. But you haven't given me any and I can't find anything reliable. Believe me this used to fascinate me when I was a teenager and I tried, but found no solid evidence of anything factual.

[scoobysnack]

Look up MK Ultra

MKULTRA

:moon:

"The ruling class has the schools and press under its thumb. This enables it to sway the emotions of the masses."
-- Albert Einstein

[agentkgb]

scoobysnack wrote: Look up MK Ultra
I have numerous times before. I still see zero eivdence that it was ever successful.

[Norrin Radd]

Resources on Drug Experimentation and Related Mind Control Experiments by the U.S. Government
General
Books and Excerpts from Books


http://www.gpc.edu/~shale/humanities/composition/assignments/experimen t/lsd.html


A declassified CIA document dated 7 Jan 1953 [1] describes the experimental creation of multiple personality in two 19-year old girls. “These subjects have clearly demonstrated that they can pass from a fully awake state to a deep H [hypnotic] controlled state by telephone, by receiving written matter, or by the use of code, signal, or words, and that control of those hypnotized can be passed from one individual to another without great difficulty. It has also been shown by experimentation with these girls that they can act as unwilling couriers for information purposes.” BB 32

A CIA document dated 10 Feb 1954 [4] describes an experiment on the creation of unsuspecting assassins: “Miss [whited out] was instructed (having expressed a fear of firearms) that she would use every method at her disposal to awaken Miss [whited out] (now in a deep hypnotic sleep). Failing this, she would pick up a pistol and fire it at Miss [whited out]. She was instructed that she would not hesitate to “kill” [whited out]. Miss [whited out] carried out these suggestions including firing the (unloaded) gun at [whited out] and then proceeded to fall into a deep sleep. After proper suggestions were made, both were awakened. Miss [whited out] expressed absolute denial that the foregoing sequence had happened.” BB 36, 37

http://www.wanttoknow.info/mindcontrol

History Channel-Mind Control: America's Secret War (50 minutes)
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article13845.htm

Among the captivating interviews presented, you will hear from Dr.
Cameron's patient Linda McDonald, whose past was completely erased by
a brainwashing experiment. Linda describes how at age 25 she was
placed on a psychiatric ward and subjected to horrific shock and drug
treatments which completely erased her mind and brought her back to
being the mental age of an infant. She, along with many other victims
of these highly unethical programs eventually won a significant
lawsuit against the U.S. government for the crimes committed against
her by one of the most respected doctors of psychiatry in the world.

http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=node/2261

More reading for anyone who is not a sheeple.

http://www.angelfire.com/or/mctrl/harrison.html

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/nonconsensual_mindcontr ol.htm

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/03/335216.shtml

More Links
On secret government, mind control, nonlethal weapons, the press, etc.



* Here is a recent U.S. News article, by Douglas Pasternak, on the newest generation of weapons in development. It is from July 1997, and is titled ``Wonder Weapons: The Pentagon's quest for nonlethal arms is amazing. But is it smart?'' (As you read it, remember how long the Stealth Bomber did not officially exist, and how spy agencies were using microwaves -- as reported, at least, against embassies -- in the '60s and '70s.) An excerpt:

``By using very low frequency electromagnetic radiation -- the waves way below radio frequencies on the electromagnetic spectrum -- he [Eldon Byrd] found he could induce the brain to release behavior-regulating chemicals. `We could put animals into a stupor,' he says, by hitting them with these frequencies. `We got chick brains -- in vitro -- to dump 80 percent of the natural opioids in their brains,' Byrd says. He even ran a small project that used magnetic fields to cause certain brain cells in rats to release histamine. In humans, this would cause instant flulike symptoms and produce nausea. `These fields were extremely weak. They were undetectable,' says Byrd. `The effects were nonlethal and reversible. You could disable a person temporarily,' Byrd hypothesizes. `It [would have been] like a stun gun.'

``Byrd never tested any of his hardware in the field, and his program, scheduled for four years, apparently was closed down after two, he says. `The work was really outstanding,' he grumbles. `We would have had a weapon in one year.' Byrd says he was told his work would be unclassified, `unless it works.' Because it worked, he suspects that the program `went black.' Other scientists tell similar tales of research on electromagnetic radiation turning top secret once successful results were achieved. There are clues that such work is continuing. In 1995, the annual meeting of four-star U.S. Air Force generals -- called CORONA -- reviewed more than 1,000 potential projects. One was called `Put the Enemy to Sleep/Keep the Enemy From Sleeping.' It called for exploring `acoustics,' `microwaves', and `brain-wave manipulation' to alter sleep patterns. It was one of only three projects approved for initial investigation.''

* This is an article by David G. Guyatt titled, ``Some Aspects of Anti-Personnel Electromagnetic Weapons,'' which was prepared for the recent International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) Symposium on the medical profession and the the effects of weapons. The article is available in in Microsoft Word (.doc) format and in rich text format (.rtf) . These items, and several others on this page, were found on the Deep Times News Service server.

An html version of this paper can be found at ParaScope. (ParaScope also has CIA interrogation manuals, and some additional EM weapons and mind control information. Try the search feature.)

* This is a speech by Robert Parry, titled ``Fooling America,'' to the group Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR). It is about covert activity in Central America, including the Iran-Contra affair, and the official attempts to cover up what had actually happened. It says a lot about how the ``free press'' really works. One of my favorite excerpts:

``...the way they were able to do it was essentially this acceptance in Washington of an absolutely phony reality, one which is accepted in sort of a consensus way ... there may be disagreements on some points -- but there is a general consensus of the world that is brought to bear, and often it is in absolute contradiction to the real world. It is a false reality -- it's a Washington reality.''

Robert Parry is currently with the Consortium for Independent Journalism.

* Here is an article about the newsgroup alt.politics.org.cia and some of the recent goings-on there.

* Do you believe the press is the watchdog for our liberties? That if ordinary citizens were being horribly abused by their government, then news reporters, editors, and publishers would welcome the opportunity to expose the wrongdoing and report the story? These are the introductory paragraphs to an article titled ``The Radiation Story No One Would Touch,'' by Geoffrey Sea. It appears in the Columbia Journalism Review, March/April 1994.

``Suddenly, at the close of 1993, the public was bombarded with `news' about the feeding of radioactive substances to pregnant women and mentally retarded students, about the unethical irradiation of workers, soldiers, mental patients, and prison inmates, and about the government's own internal fears that those experiments had `a little of the Buchenwald touch.' But the story that appeared in The Albuquerque Tribune (circulation: 35,000) on November 15-17, and was then projected into national headlines by the forthright admissions and initiatives of Secretary of Energy Hazel O'Leary, was hardly new.

``By 1984, activists and researchers across the country were systematically investigating the human experimentation program and attempting to bring it to public attention. By 1986, documentation of the program was massive, solid, and publicly available.

``I am among those who persistently tried to get national media coverage of this outrageous example of government wrongdoing. To say the media were reluctant to listen would be an understatement. The fact is that, for more than a decade, documentation was ignored and facts were misreported.''

The article goes on to list the chronology of this story no one would touch (and some of the truly outrageous abuses against American citizens that were ignored). Perhaps most shocking from the journalistic side is that the abuses were still ignored or misreported after 1986 when the House Subcommittee on Energy Conservation and Power issued a report listing all the abuses which were treated, years later, as new revelations. (Needless to say, the victims were not notified either. Some found out years later. Other radiation experiments which occurred after 1974 are still secret.)

This story was selected as one of the 10 most under-reported news stories of 1994 by Project Censored, along with a document indicating that secrecy was invoked by the government to prevent possible lawsuits and ``adverse effect on public opinion.''

* In the introduction to an article titled, ``Army Planning a Return to Garden Plot-Style Domestic Spying?,'' the Sources Briefings electronic journal, volume 2, issue 1, reports that the Army is secretly seeking authorization to return to domestic spying against American citizens. According to this article, the Army once kept ``dossiers'' on 200,000 ordinary citizens, and ``had allowed thousands of its intelligence agents to spy on virtually anyone who exercised his or her constitutional right to dissent and challenge public policies...''

The Johnson administration utilized Army intelligence to spy on and disrupt anti-war protesters and other ``dissidents.'' An excerpt from V. Marchetti and J. Marks' book The CIA and the Cult of Intelligence, 1974:

``... Literal legal justification probably was not the sole reason why Army intelligence was assigned as the main instrument with which to attack the domestic targets; size was another consideration. Neither the CIA nor the FBI had the manpower for an all-out clandestine offensive against the radicals. Nor did either have available large numbers of young intelligence personnel who could actually penetrate the movement. But Army intelligence soon blundered and its domestic surveillance programs were exposed in January 1970 by ex-agent Christopher Pyle, writing in the Washington Monthly. During the following year the military services were forced to withdraw from their massive attack against domestic dissidents; the field was once again left to the `professionals' -- the FBI and the CIA.''

Marchetti and Marks' book also reports that the CIA secretly provided training to 14 New York City policemen, as well as providing ``training'' to officers in other localities. The book describes the Domestic Operations Division (DOD) of the CIA as one of that agency's most secretive divisions. Among its operations were espionage programs against foreign students.

The CIA even aided the White House ``plumbers'' in their break-ins (p. 218). Watergate is often trumpeted as proof that the press will expose government wrongdoing and can even bring down an administration. What it really shows is that an organization as powerful as the Democratic National Committee, along with national newspapers, could just barely manage to fight back against covert attacks from a truly corrupt administration. One is tempted to view the post-Watergate investigations into the CIA's abuses as simply political payback.

* A research paper titled, ``Information Operations: A New War-Fighting Capability'' presented to the Air Force's 2025 project. This was originally from the Air Force's Air University web page, and is mirrored on the Federation of American Scientists' pages. In particular, look at chapter 4 on implanted microscopic chips.

* The Mind Control Forum contains a wide variety of information about mind control, including many victims' stories. Use your discretion, as the items there are unfiltered, but much of it is excellent. Some highlights include the CKLN-FM Mind Control Series from Toronto, and a transcript from a CNN Special Assignment show, from 1985, on electromagnetic weapons.

* This is a victim's account that I think is particularly well-written. It is by Mr. David Fratus, and apparently appeared on Usenet in 1988. In it, he describes being experimented on and tortured while in a Utah prison. I do not know Mr. Fratus or have any confirmation of these events, but I am inclined to believe it. He describes quite well the horror and outrage at discovering that his very mind has been violated, and the attitudes of the torturers. This is his story, which is located at Maarti Koski's site in Finland.

(I probably do not need to mention it, but one of the objectives of the secret experimenters -- and bullies in general -- is to turn victims against each other. They also seek to turn potential supporters against the victims. Whether someone has suffered less or more under the system is not really the point, nor is the ``private'' life of the victim. The torturers are the culprits. They try to get people -- even some of their own victims -- to buy into their torture-table ``extractions,'' rumormongering, voyeurism, and character assassinations. But anything which that poison touches is tainted. Stockholm syndrome is something to watch out for.)

* Here is a link to a page with much information about the CIA, particularly its many abuses. Among other things it focuses on drugrunning, assassination programs, and the buying and influencing of journalists. (It also has some interesting articles about CIA involvement in Australia.) This site is mirrored in Switzerland and Australia.

There is a good article at this site about Operation Chaos, the CIA's long-running, illegal domestic surveillance program, with a sidebar on campus surveillance.

* This is an article titled, ``Snow Job: The Establishment's Papers Do Damage Control for the CIA,'' by the group Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR). It describes the way mainstream newspapers acted to minimize and dismiss charges, by the San Jose Mercury News, of CIA involvement in the crack trade. Sidebars include ``That Delusional Mindset,'' and ``Our Man at the Post.'' A brief excerpt:

``... In 1988, Post owner Katharine Graham, Phil's widow, gave a speech at the CIA's Langley, Va. headquarters. `We live in a dirty and dangerous world,' Graham told agency leaders (Regardie's magazine, 1/90). `There are some things the general public does not need to know and shouldn't. I believe democracy flourishes when the government can take legitimate steps to keep its secrets and when the press can decide whether to print what it knows.'

``Readers, in turn, can decide how much faith to put in news outlets whose owners embrace such a philosophy.''

(Apparently secret human experimentation on American citizens is another one of the things the general public ``does not need to know.'' Is democracy ``flourishing'' for the victims of these domestic atrocities?) This essay also appears in the book Wizards of Media Oz: Behind the Curtain of Mainstream News by Norman Soloman and Jeff Cohen (Common Courage Press).

* An article from the Ottawa Citizen, Sept. 13, 1997, titled, ``MIND GAMES: Another woman comes forward to claim the CIA used her as a guinea pig in hideous experiments.'' The title pretty well sums it up. Some excerpts:

``Alan Scheflin [a law professor and researcher] doubts the promises of further disclosure will amount to much. After several boxes of CIA documents were released under the U.S. Freedom of Information Act in the 1970's, the flow slowed to a trickle. `I can't prove, without having the documents available, that what anybody is telling me, or part of what someone is telling me, is true or not,' said Mr. Scheflin. `But I can tell you that it's not out of the realm of possibility. And if it's not true, it will be true of someone else who has come forward.' Psychiatrist Colin Ross, a specialist in multiple identity disorders, has heard numerous stories of government experimentation from patients since moving to Texas from Canada six years ago. `It's really hard to tell how much of it is real. On the other hand, there's all this documentation that a tremendous amount of this stuff did go on. So the stories aren't impossible either.'

``Dr. Ross recently completed a manuscript based on the countless hours he has spent in libraries and archives uncovering information about government experiments on people and other unconventional research conducted by doctors and institutes across North America. Evidence that researchers have exposed children to LSD doses, radiation and other potentially harmful substances leads him to believe mind-control experimentation could also have occurred. `All kinds of unbelievable stuff has in fact been done to kids.' Mr. Scheflin notes that 149 projects involved work with children at juvenile facilities, but the records disclosed to date do not paint a complete picture.''

``Ms. Wolf [a New Orleans therapist] believes the truth about child experiments is slowly emerging, but wants to stall the disclosure as long as possible because officials realize the news will be met with outrage. `People will be very angry that this was done to children by the government.' ''

(I found this article on the MINDCONTROL-L Mind Control and Psyops Mailing List. Look at the end of the article for info on subscribing, and for the web address of the list archive.)

* In The Controllers, Martin Cannon argues that ``alien abductions'' might actually be a cover for government mind control and experimentation. This article contains a great deal of documented research about mind control technology, especially brain implants. For example:

``Perhaps the most disturbing wanderer into this mind-field is Joseph A. Meyer, of the National Security Agency, the most formidable and secretive component of America's national security complex. Meyer has proposed implanting roughly half of all Americans arrested -- not necessarily convicted -- of any crime; the numbers of `subscribers' (his euphemism) would run into the tens of millions. `Subscribers' could be monitored continually by computer wherever they went. Meyer, who has carefully worked out the economics of his mass-implantation system, asserts that taxpayer liability should be reduced by forcing subscribers to `rent' the implant from the State. Implants are cheaper and more efficient than police, Meyer suggests, since the call to crime is relentless for the poor `urban dweller' -- who, this spook-scientist admits in a surprisingly candid aside, is fundamentally unnecessary to a post-industrial economy. `Urban dweller' may be another of Meyer's euphemisms: He uses New York's Harlem as his model community in working out the details of his mind-management system.44''

This particular section is referenced to 44. Scheflin and Opton, The Mind Manipulators, 351-353; Tackwood, The Glass House Tapes, 228. Other sections, for example, discuss experiments in wiring up cats so their ears act as microphones to a loudspeaker in another room.

* The Metro magazine, from the Santa Clara Valley, has an article in its Dec 12-18, 1996 issue about implanted microchip devices. It is by Michael Mechanic and is titled ``Beastly Implants.'' The article describes the recent popularity of pet implants and suggestions they could be placed in children. Mechanic reports that a plastic surgeon in Florida got a patent in 1987 for an implantable tracking device for humans. It runs on long-lasting, externally rechargable batteries and can be used to track a person's location via cellular phone towers or helicopters.

The article also touches on some of the marketing techniques that are being used to sell implanted chips. These techniques will likely be used to try to justify the chips already implanted in unknowing people. Attempts to blur the notion of consent, such as in the difference between consensual sex and rape, will also likely occur with regard to the devices implanted in unknowing subjects. Recall that in Orwell's 1984 one of the most repressive aspects of Big Brother surveillance was that it could not be turned off.

Demonizing the victims is another technique that will be used to ``justify'' the unjustifiable. How would your life look if you had been under 24-hour harassment and thought surveillance (and/or other invasive surveillance) for years, and your worst enemy got to edit this down to ``support'' any picture he wanted to paint about you? Remember, you do not get a bit of due process, you cannot face your accuser or hear the charges against you, and the audience for this farce may well be too stupid or caught up in voyeurism to understand what is really going on.

* In their book Angels Don't Play This HAARP, Jeane Manning and Nick Begich have a chapter on ``nonlethal'' weapons. (More info on the HAARP project, and its relation to nonlethal weapons, can be found on several other web sites.) In this chapter, Manning and Begich present some startling excerpts from government publications.

One publication they reference is the Radiofrequency Radiation Dosimetry Handbook, United States Air Force School of Aerospace Medicine, Brooks Air Force Base, Texas, October 1986. This is a compendium of information about medical RF effects, useful in designing weapons. (A principal reviewer and contributor, Dr. H.P. Schwan, is a Project Paperclip scientist from Nazi laboratories.)

The following are excerpts from the Final Report On Biotechnology Reaearch Requirements For Aeronautical Systems Through the Year 2000, Volumes I and II, Southwest Research Institute, San Antonio, Texas, pg. 181-188. Note the references to ``interrogating'' mental functioning, i.e., reading thoughts.

``... Experience with electroshock therapy, RFR [radiofrequency radiation] experiments, and the increasing understanding of the brain as an electrically mediated organ suggest the serious probability that impressed electromagnetic fields can be disruptive of purposeful behavior and may be capable of directing and/or interrogating such behavior. Further, the passage of approximately 100 milliamperes through the myocardium can lead to cardiac standstill and death, again pointing to a speed-of-light weapons effect.''

``... While initial attention should be toward degradation of human performance through thermal loading and electromagnetic field effects, subsequent work should address the possibilities of directing and interrogating mental functioning, using externally applied fields within the possibility of a revolutionary capability to defend against hostile actions, and to collect intelligence data prior to conflict onset.''

Another document is Department of Defense Directive, Policy for Non-Lethal Weapons, Office of the Assistant Secretary of Defense, Draft, July 21, 1994. This is the draft of a policy intended to take effect in January of 1995. It describes using non-lethal weapons against the government's domestic ``adversaries:''

``The term `adversary' is used above in its broadest sense, including those who are not declared enemies but who are engaged in activities we wish to stop. This policy does not preclude legally authorized domestic use of the nonlethal weapons by United States military forces in support of law enforcement.''

This sounds like a prescription for an American dirty war using secret, deniable technology.

Manning and Begich also describe (p. 162) a document by a Council on Foreign Relations task force, from 1995, that discusses using these weapons against [people labeled as] terrorists and drug traffickers. It recommends that these weapons be used secretly, so the victims do not know where the attack is from, or if there even is an attack. [How was this strategy tested and developed?] This is a policy recommendation for extrajudicial torture. If they would put that in an open document, what other ideas were going around behind the veil of secrecy? Judge, jury, and executioner: Did you vote for that?

* The U.S. Patent Office has a very nice web page, which allows for online patent searches. For example, searching on ``implantable'' and ``tracking'' returns the patent:

Personal tracking and recovery system, patent number 5,629,678, filed Jan. 10, 1995

Apparatus for tracking and recovering humans utilizes an implantable transceiver incorporating a power supply and actuation system allowing the unit to remain implanted and functional for years without maintenance. The implanted transmitter may be remotely actuated, or actuated by the implantee. Power for the remote-activated receiver is generated electromechanically through the movement of body muscle. The device is small enough to be implanted in a child, facilitating use as a safeguard against kidnapping, and has a transmission range which also makes it suitable for wilderness sporting activities. A novel biological monitoring feature allows the device to be used to facilitate prompt medical dispatch in the event of heart attack or similar medical emergency. A novel sensation-feedback feature allows the implantee to control and actuate the device with certainty.

There are also patents, for example, for devices to project a voice spoken into a microphone into a subject's head via microwaves. These are open patents, not ones that got slapped with a secrecy order. Here is a page listing many mind-control-related patents, from the Leading Edge Research Group. Remember when these devices ``did not exist,'' and the ``authorities'' who assured us that those who claimed otherwise were kooks? What will they tell us next?

http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~alb/misc/moreMindLinks.html

[agentkgb]

Actual links! Finally.

[agentkgb]

Oh, I just started reading some of them. I was going to take the .edu one seroiusly but it isn't an actual UVA page, it's just hosted by them. Likewise with the Indymedia stuff until I realized that southern cascadia probably has a lot of slow news days and the vancouver one is some kind of Scoop type thing and the article was just by someone with an account not Indymedia. The others aren't even remotely serious sites.
Obviously this information wouldn't be published on CNN or Fox or whatever, but if the government had successfully used a form of mind control, it would be published by something like the actual Indymedia, Project Censored, etc., all of which are major alternative news sources. I've looked but I can't find such an article.

[Norrin Radd]

agentkgb wrote: Oh, I just started reading some of them. I was going to take the .edu one seroiusly but it isn't an actual UVA page, it's just hosted by them. Likewise with the Indymedia stuff until I realized that southern cascadia probably has a lot of slow news days and the vancouver one is some kind of Scoop type thing and the article was just by someone with an account not Indymedia. The others aren't even remotely serious sites.
Obviously this information wouldn't be published on CNN or Fox or whatever, but if the government had successfully used a form of mind control, it would be published by something like the actual Indymedia, Project Censored, etc., all of which are major alternative news sources. I've looked but I can't find such an article.

Have you ever researched a single topic before in your life?

Do you always give up so easily?

How many hours have you spent verifying quotes?

How many hours have you spent at government websites?

Ever spend a hundred hours sifting through the Congressional Record?

Ever spend dozens of hours searching for a source for a single quote?

Ever call a Congressman's office to verify a piece of information?

Ever read an article from a mass media news source only to see it later disappear from the web?

Ever see testimony removed from the Congressional Record?

Have you ever ordered any documentary? I have several from the History Channel and several from PBS. I also have a few news segments which I ordered from different news programs just to save them.

Ever see this article which was removed from ABC News?

Remote Mind Control
What if Brains of the Future Run With Computer Circuitry?

Commentary
By Nicholas Regush
ABCNEWS.com

Sept. 5 — We appear to be edging towards an era of "mind control" — a time when human brains might be manipulated routinely by highly sophisticated technology.

http://web.archive.org/web/20010907171151/http://abcnews.go.com/sections/living/SecondOpinion/secondopinion010905.html

Ever do much reading at the National Security Archive at GWU? Are you familiar with the reclassification project?

////////

This mind control summary is based on excerpts from three landmark books: Bluebird by Colin A. Ross MD; Mind Controllers by Dr. Armen Victorian; and A Nation Betrayed by Carol Rutz. All three authors provide hundreds of footnotes to support their groundbreaking research. Much of this information is based on 18,000 pages of declassified CIA mind control documents. To order these revealing documents in CD format directly from the government, click here. Join in powerfully building a better world for all by spreading the word.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Disturbing%20Truths/mind_control.htm


More reading.....


http://www.buzzflash.com/farrell/04/07/far04025.html



Ya know, people like you are the reason the government gets away with all the crap they get away with. You ask for links because you are too lazy to get off your ass and do your own research, then when you get links, you do not even bother to read the information, instead only looking at the sources, making the age old mistake of judging a book by it's cover.

Thanks to people like you the government has been able to kill it's own citizens and get away with it, all because of closed minded, uncaring people like you who enjoy having others tell you what to think.

[Mighty Oak]

Norrin Radd wrote: agentkgb wrote: Oh, I just started reading some of them. I was going to take the .edu one seroiusly but it isn't an actual UVA page, it's just hosted by them. Likewise with the Indymedia stuff until I realized that southern cascadia probably has a lot of slow news days and the vancouver one is some kind of Scoop type thing and the article was just by someone with an account not Indymedia. The others aren't even remotely serious sites.
Obviously this information wouldn't be published on CNN or Fox or whatever, but if the government had successfully used a form of mind control, it would be published by something like the actual Indymedia, Project Censored, etc., all of which are major alternative news sources. I've looked but I can't find such an article.

Have you ever researched a single topic before in your life?

Do you always give up so easily?

How many hours have you spent verifying quotes?

How many hours have you spent at government websites?

Ever spend a hundred hours sifting through the Congressional Record?

Ever spend dozens of hours searching for a source for a single quote?

Ever call a Congressman's office to verify a piece of information?

Ever read an article from a mass media news source only to see it later disappear from the web?

Ever see testimony removed from the Congressional Record?

Have you ever ordered any documentary? I have several from the History Channel and several from PBS. I also have a few news segments which I ordered from different news programs just to save them.

Ever see this article which was removed from ABC News?

Remote Mind Control
What if Brains of the Future Run With Computer Circuitry?

Commentary
By Nicholas Regush
ABCNEWS.com

Sept. 5 — We appear to be edging towards an era of "mind control" — a time when human brains might be manipulated routinely by highly sophisticated technology.

http://web.archive.org/web/20010907171151/http://abcnews.go.com/sections/living/SecondOpinion/secondopinion010905.html

Ever do much reading at the National Security Archive at GWU? Are you familiar with the reclassification project?

////////

This mind control summary is based on excerpts from three landmark books: Bluebird by Colin A. Ross MD; Mind Controllers by Dr. Armen Victorian; and A Nation Betrayed by Carol Rutz. All three authors provide hundreds of footnotes to support their groundbreaking research. Much of this information is based on 18,000 pages of declassified CIA mind control documents. To order these revealing documents in CD format directly from the government, click here. Join in powerfully building a better world for all by spreading the word.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Disturbing%20Truths/mind_control.htm


More reading.....


http://www.buzzflash.com/farrell/04/07/far04025.html



Ya know, people like you are the reason the government gets away with all the crap they get away with. You ask for links because you are too lazy to get off your ass and do your own research, then when you get links, you do not even bother to read the information, instead only looking at the sources, making the age old mistake of judging a book by it's cover.

Thanks to people like you the government has been able to kill it's own citizens and get away with it, all because of closed minded, uncaring people like you who enjoy having others tell you what to think. Well I have,and your right it takes an effort,not just an effort,but a desire to know.I know I'm not alone in this and I will continue to delve into the pit of hell to find the truth.And good luck to all who follow.Yea, I know what that sounds like.Peace be with you.

[Mighty Oak]

Norrin Radd wrote: agentkgb wrote: Oh, I just started reading some of them. I was going to take the .edu one seroiusly but it isn't an actual UVA page, it's just hosted by them. Likewise with the Indymedia stuff until I realized that southern cascadia probably has a lot of slow news days and the vancouver one is some kind of Scoop type thing and the article was just by someone with an account not Indymedia. The others aren't even remotely serious sites.
Obviously this information wouldn't be published on CNN or Fox or whatever, but if the government had successfully used a form of mind control, it would be published by something like the actual Indymedia, Project Censored, etc., all of which are major alternative news sources. I've looked but I can't find such an article.

Have you ever researched a single topic before in your life?

Do you always give up so easily?

How many hours have you spent verifying quotes?

How many hours have you spent at government websites?

Ever spend a hundred hours sifting through the Congressional Record?

Ever spend dozens of hours searching for a source for a single quote?

Ever call a Congressman's office to verify a piece of information?

Ever read an article from a mass media news source only to see it later disappear from the web?

Ever see testimony removed from the Congressional Record?

Have you ever ordered any documentary? I have several from the History Channel and several from PBS. I also have a few news segments which I ordered from different news programs just to save them.

Ever see this article which was removed from ABC News?

Remote Mind Control
What if Brains of the Future Run With Computer Circuitry?

Commentary
By Nicholas Regush
ABCNEWS.com

Sept. 5 — We appear to be edging towards an era of "mind control" — a time when human brains might be manipulated routinely by highly sophisticated technology.

http://web.archive.org/web/20010907171151/http://abcnews.go.com/sections/living/SecondOpinion/secondopinion010905.html

Ever do much reading at the National Security Archive at GWU? Are you familiar with the reclassification project?

////////

This mind control summary is based on excerpts from three landmark books: Bluebird by Colin A. Ross MD; Mind Controllers by Dr. Armen Victorian; and A Nation Betrayed by Carol Rutz. All three authors provide hundreds of footnotes to support their groundbreaking research. Much of this information is based on 18,000 pages of declassified CIA mind control documents. To order these revealing documents in CD format directly from the government, click here. Join in powerfully building a better world for all by spreading the word.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Disturbing%20Truths/mind_control.htm


More reading.....


http://www.buzzflash.com/farrell/04/07/far04025.html



Ya know, people like you are the reason the government gets away with all the crap they get away with. You ask for links because you are too lazy to get off your ass and do your own research, then when you get links, you do not even bother to read the information, instead only looking at the sources, making the age old mistake of judging a book by it's cover.

Thanks to people like you the government has been able to kill it's own citizens and get away with it, all because of closed minded, uncaring people like you who enjoy having others tell you what to think. Well I have,and your right it takes an effort,not just an effort,but a desire to know.I know I'm not alone in this and I will continue to delve into the pit of hell to find the truth.And good luck to all who follow.Yea, I know what that sounds like.Peace be with you.

[agentkgb]

Norrin Radd wrote: Have you ever researched a single topic before in your life? Yes.
Norrin Radd wrote: Do you always give up so easily? I'm not giving up, who said I wasn't still looking? My point has been and is still that I have never encountered evidence that mind control has been done successfully.
Norrin Radd wrote: How many hours have you spent verifying quotes? Quotes from politicians? From media? What? Either way I don't keep count.
Norrin Radd wrote: How many hours have you spent at government websites? Many.
Norrin Radd wrote: Ever spend a hundred hours sifting through the Congressional Record? No. I'd get sleepy.
Norrin Radd wrote: Ever spend dozens of hours searching for a source for a single quote? No. Why would I give a single quote that much weight in the first place?
Norrin Radd wrote: Ever call a Congressman's office to verify a piece of information? No. Besides, if you believe they're covering it up, wouldn't that be just what they'd do?
Norrin Radd wrote: Ever read an article from a mass media news source only to see it later disappear from the web? No (though I should note that I rarely return to articles I've already read after a long period of time).
Norrin Radd wrote: Ever see testimony removed from the Congressional Record? No, but I suppose that's similar to above. Also, I probably spend a substantially less amount of time than you do looking at such records.
Norrin Radd wrote: Have you ever ordered any documentary? I have several from the History Channel and several from PBS. I also have a few news segments which I ordered from different news programs just to save them. No, I can't spend money like that.
Norrin Radd wrote: Ever see this article which was removed from ABC News? No, I did not see it.
Norrin Radd wrote: Ever do much reading at the National Security Archive at GWU? Yeah because I just so happen to live around the corner from it. :roll: I can't travel there.
Norrin Radd wrote: Are you familiar with the reclassification project? Yes.
Norrin Radd wrote: http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Disturbing%20Truths/mind_control.htm Jesus Christ is not my savior. Again, it's a guy with a domain name.
Norrin Radd wrote: Ya know, people like you are the reason the government gets away with all the crap they get away with. You ask for links because you are too lazy to get off your ass and do your own research, then when you get links, you do not even bother to read the information, instead only looking at the sources, making the age old mistake of judging a book by it's cover. Judging it by its cover would be like judging it by its HTML, I'm judging it by its author, which is rational.
Norrin Radd wrote: Thanks to people like you the government has been able to kill it's own citizens and get away with it, all because of closed minded, uncaring people like you who enjoy having others tell you what to think. I'm not saying that the US government hasn't killed Americans, I'm not saying it hasn't/isn't attempting to develop forms of mind control, and I'm also not saying it's impossible that they have succeeded, I'm saying I have no reason to believe that they have succeeded.