Political Crossfire Forums

[ToonArmyIsComing]

Egypt and Turkey have announced they are going nuclear. This is a disturbing development as it means that the regional politics is likely to take on another dimension with the added nuclear dimension. This is possibly one of the unintended consequences of Israel's and Iran's nuclear programs. Now, the Middle East will be less safe than ever because the Middle East is going to be full of nuclear powerhouses.

Quote: Concern over Middle East nuclear plans

Plans announced recently by Egypt and Turkey that they hope to build nuclear power plants are raising a ripple of concern about the long-term prospect of a nuclear arms race in the Middle East.

"It is easy to exaggerate and it is true that these countries have a right to seek all sources of energy but it is indisputable that there is also a strategic element to this," said Mark Fitzpatrick, senior fellow in non-proliferation at the International Institute for Strategic Studies in London.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5378148.stm

[lilwolf]

I am not to worried about Egypt and Turkey in that they are both fairly civilized in comparison to Iran. Neither is overtly aggressive either so i do not see much headache coming from those two. But that's just my opinion.

[superskippy]

I trust Egypt and Turkey and I think they should be allowed to proceed with nuclear power development and assisted if needed. I do not beleive Turkey or Egypt will take the route of nuclear weapons as they are decades away from achieving it and it would cost the billions of dollars they have no wish to spend and the complete redeveloment of their energy sites. However if say Turkey was to have been discovered to have produced a nuclear weapon I still would not be very concerned nor do I think that they would risk making one with their EU relations at an all time high in importance.

[The Comrade]

ToonArmyIsComing wrote: Egypt and Turkey have announced they are going nuclear. This is a disturbing development as it means that the regional politics is likely to take on another dimension with the added nuclear dimension. This is possibly one of the unintended consequences of Israel's and Iran's nuclear programs. Now, the Middle East will be less safe than ever because the Middle East is going to be full of nuclear powerhouses.

Quote: Concern over Middle East nuclear plans

Plans announced recently by Egypt and Turkey that they hope to build nuclear power plants are raising a ripple of concern about the long-term prospect of a nuclear arms race in the Middle East.

"It is easy to exaggerate and it is true that these countries have a right to seek all sources of energy but it is indisputable that there is also a strategic element to this," said Mark Fitzpatrick, senior fellow in non-proliferation at the International Institute for Strategic Studies in London.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5378148.stm

i don't mind turkey having nuclear technology.

egypt i would be worried about. egypt is sort of on the fence about how it feels with the west and if one disillusioned scientist were to sneak something into gaza through raffah then you could have quite a mess...

[the sane voice]

i dont think mubarak really wants a nuclear weapon.especially because of extreme muslims like the muslim brothers.

[Plato & Socrates]

lilwolf wrote: I am not to worried about Egypt and Turkey in that they are both fairly civilized in comparison to Iran. Neither is overtly aggressive either so i do not see much headache coming from those two. But that's just my opinion.

When A.I.P.A.C and co, work on the collective tiny American mind. Egypt will be seen has Israels immortal enemy, cos it says so in the bible :roll: as well as other reasons. Egypt will be America's public enemy number one.
The majority of dumb-arse Yanks, would have bought into that crap also. Advocating a military campaign to deny Egypt nuclear technology. Just in case they make a bomb, which would be there right. Never the less, America will object, based on found-less accusations. I'll take bets with anyone. You can write the script already.

The comrade wrote: I don't mind turkey having nuclear technology.

egypt i would be worried about. egypt is sort of on the fence about how it feels with the west and if one disillusioned scientist were to sneak something into gaza through raffah then you could have quite a mess...

You see, the Jedi mindtrick is working already. The madness has started. :lol:

[The Comrade]

Plato & Socrates wrote: lilwolf wrote: I am not to worried about Egypt and Turkey in that they are both fairly civilized in comparison to Iran. Neither is overtly aggressive either so i do not see much headache coming from those two. But that's just my opinion.

When A.I.P.A.C and co, work on the collective tiny American mind. Egypt will be seen has Israels immortal enemy cos it says so in the bible :roll: as well as other reasons. Egypt will be America's public enemy number one.
The majority of dumb-arse Yanks, would have bought into that crap also. Advocating a military campaign to deny Egypt nuclear technology. Just in case they make a bomb, which would be there right. Never the less, America will object, based on found-less accusations. I'll take bets with anyone. You can write the script already.

that's a very stupid assumption.

australia is going nuclear and the west hasn't made a fuss. you know why? because australia isn't run by a fundamentalist theocrat who's country is not only intolerant of other religions but incredibly backwards.

egypt is a very westernized and civilized country, as is turkey.

now if egypt was going nuclear in 1973 i would whole heartedly be against it.

[Plato & Socrates]

The Comrade wrote: Plato & Socrates wrote: lilwolf wrote: I am not to worried about Egypt and Turkey in that they are both fairly civilized in comparison to Iran. Neither is overtly aggressive either so i do not see much headache coming from those two. But that's just my opinion.

When A.I.P.A.C and co, work on the collective tiny American mind. Egypt will be seen has Israels immortal enemy cos it says so in the bible :roll: as well as other reasons. Egypt will be America's public enemy number one.
The majority of dumb-arse Yanks, would have bought into that crap also. Advocating a military campaign to deny Egypt nuclear technology. Just in case they make a bomb, which would be there right. Never the less, America will object, based on found-less accusations. I'll take bets with anyone. You can write the script already.

that's a very stupid assumption.

australia is going nuclear and the west hasn't made a fuss. you know why? because australia isn't run by a fundamentalist theocrat who's country is not only intolerant of other religions but incredibly backwards.

egypt is a very westernized and civilized country, as is turkey.

now if egypt was going nuclear in 1973 i would whole heartedly be against it.

Because Austraila is white anglo saxon protestant and more importantly an ally, plus they would'nt listen to you. You could have a cesspool of fundamentalism in your country. posess the nuclear bomb, and be anti-American on the dtreet. But support the war on terror with the USA and you can do what you want. If you dont believe me, just ask Pakistan. :lol:

[The Comrade]

Plato & Socrates wrote: [Because Austraila is white anglo saxon protestant and more importantly an ally, plus they would'nt listen to you. You could have a cesspool of fundamentalism in your country. posess the nuclear bomb, and be anti-American on the dtreet. But support the war on terror with the USA and you can do what you want. If you dont believe me, just ask Pakistan. :lol:


so american government is racist??


egypt and turkey are both allies. turkey is trying to join the EU for christs sake.

[Plato & Socrates]

The Comrade wrote: Plato & Socrates wrote: [Because Austraila is white anglo saxon protestant and more importantly an ally, plus they would'nt listen to you. You could have a cesspool of fundamentalism in your country. posess the nuclear bomb, and be anti-American on the dtreet. But support the war on terror with the USA and you can do what you want. If you dont believe me, just ask Pakistan. :lol:


so american government is racist??


egypt and turkey are both allies. turkey is trying to join the EU for christs sake.

A dose of realism for you my friend. If Serbia was tradition W.A.S.P. Clinton and Blair would'nt not have bombed it.
They will offer Egypt conditions on her nuclear ambition, and that is a guarantee.

[The Comrade]

Plato & Socrates wrote: The Comrade wrote: Plato & Socrates wrote: [Because Austraila is white anglo saxon protestant and more importantly an ally, plus they would'nt listen to you. You could have a cesspool of fundamentalism in your country. posess the nuclear bomb, and be anti-American on the dtreet. But support the war on terror with the USA and you can do what you want. If you dont believe me, just ask Pakistan. :lol:


so american government is racist??


egypt and turkey are both allies. turkey is trying to join the EU for christs sake.

A dose of realism for you my friend. If Serbia was tradition W.A.S.P. Clinton and Blair would'nt not have bombed it.
They will offer Egypt conditions on her nuclear ambition, and that is a guarantee.

if england was comiting a genocide you better find a bomb shelter.


and of course egypt will be told what to do. EVERY country that has/ is persuing nuclear ambitions is told what they can and cannot do.

[lilwolf]

Plato & Socrates wrote: lilwolf wrote: I am not to worried about Egypt and Turkey in that they are both fairly civilized in comparison to Iran. Neither is overtly aggressive either so i do not see much headache coming from those two. But that's just my opinion.

When A.I.P.A.C and co, work on the collective tiny American mind. Egypt will be seen has Israels immortal enemy, cos it says so in the bible :roll: as well as other reasons. Egypt will be America's public enemy number one.
The majority of dumb-arse Yanks, would have bought into that crap also. Advocating a military campaign to deny Egypt nuclear technology. Just in case they make a bomb, which would be there right. Never the less, America will object, based on found-less accusations. I'll take bets with anyone. You can write the script already.

The comrade wrote: I don't mind turkey having nuclear technology.

egypt i would be worried about. egypt is sort of on the fence about how it feels with the west and if one disillusioned scientist were to sneak something into gaza through raffah then you could have quite a mess...

You see, the Jedi mindtrick is working already. The madness has started. :lol:


Egypt is not stupid and neither is Turkey. If egypt or any of the others in the region get that ignorant....then nuke their ass and be done with it. You can bet that Israel will if they are attacked.
Egypt might be a fence rider nation but they are not stupid.

[The Comrade]

lilwolf wrote: Egypt is not stupid and neither is Turkey. If egypt or any of the others in the region get that ignorant....then nuke their ass and be done with it. You can bet that Israel will if they are attacked.
Egypt might be a fence rider nation but they are not stupid.

it's certainly not the egyptian government that worries me. it's the jihadists in egypt that worry me.

[lilwolf]

Egypt has cracked down over the last year or two on the biggest majority of them and is sending some pretty clear messages. Hey, public executions. A very good buddy of mine (army colonel) was over there last month and they beheaded 7 bad guys for just this kind of thing.

So, the message is getting out there that it is not wanted. Now if we could get some other nations to remove their heads from the dark stink hole they might even have a chance of surviving.

[superskippy]

Plato your the only person I know who can condemn our opposition of the Iranian nuclear program and at the same time condemn our support of the Egyptian and Turkish programs. How you can turn our ambivelance as well as our support of their ventures into an argument on propeganda and lobbies and their problams and their evils is truly a talent.

As always,
superskippy

[ToonArmyIsComing]

This is not about being civilized or westernized or anything like that. This is about a drastic change in the overall political setting of the Middle East. This is the "new Middle East", not the fairy tale Bush and Rice would like to talk about.

[Bonobo]

Just cause its a nice place for the tourists really doesn't mean alot: the current leader has changed the constitution, it turns outhe was uch a good leader the country needed him for decades rather than 2 terms, and is currently enjoying his fifth term.

This of course only serves to futher the extremist opinions on democracy, and most analysts believe an attempted revolution is more than likely within 20 years

[Plato & Socrates]

superskippy wrote: Plato your the only person I know who can condemn our opposition of the Iranian nuclear program and at the same time condemn our support of the Egyptian and Turkish programs. How you can turn our ambivelance as well as our support of their ventures into an argument on propeganda and lobbies and their problams and their evils is truly a talent.

As always,
superskippy

Skippy, you miss the point entirely with my defense of Iran. Personally I don't wish Iran to get the bomb. But I cannot argue a case for Iran not to have it, on the basis of propaganda, blatant hypocrisy, the applying of the most grotesque form of double standards and a dose of nepotism.

The Iranian leadership is as vile that as ever existed in that region. But I have no real excuse to deny them the bomb, except on the basis of me disliking them. That in itself is no justification to deny them the right to pursue nuclear technology.
As for Turkey as my post indicated, Israel cant say nothing anyway. But for a nuclear powered Egypt? Its a matter of time before the war of words start. It will be nuclear energy yes. Nuclear bomb, no. To even think Egypt would have a nuclear weapon program, whilst pursuing a civil nuclear power program? Well that's naivety to the extreme.

Secondly I never knew the Israeli government supported Turkey and Egypt, pursuing nuclear programs.

[Kubz]

the sane voice wrote: i dont think mubarak really wants a nuclear weapon.especially because of extreme muslims like the muslim brothers.

the muslim brotherhood here are not extremist. they are party trying to get votes but are being shutdown everywhere so that Mubarak stays in power. Egyptian politics are messy.

the plant would be good because of the rising electricity prices here.

and i dont think Iran would ever launch a nuclear weapon. making/buying a weapon is one thing and using it is another. Pakistan has nuclear weapons but isnt dangerous.

Quote: This of course only serves to futher the extremist opinions on democracy, and most analysts believe an attempted revolution is more than likely within 20 years

most likely. :)

[the sane voice]

Kubz wrote:
the muslim brotherhood here are not extremist. they are party trying to get votes but are being shutdown everywhere so that Mubarak stays in power. Egyptian politics are messy.


were talking about the same guys?

Quote: Some branches of the Muslim Brotherhood include groups dedicated to jihad and resistance, such as al-Jihad (Egypt), al-Gama'at al-Islamiyya (Egypt), Hamas (Palestine), and mujahideen groups in Afghanistan. These branches are normally structurally separate, yet linked by a common ideology of political Islam, as well as extensive cross-border organization and financial support.


Quote: Inconsistent with popular belief in the West, the Muslim Brotherhood normally does not pursue its goals through acts of terror. However, the Brotherhood has advocated martyrdom to fight Zionism. For example, the Brotherhood views militant acts by Hamas as a legitimate struggle against Israel, despite targeting both the Israeli military and civilians, many civilians of whom are required to serve in mandatory conscription in the Israeli military.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brothers