Political Crossfire Forums

[LostSoul3412]

Can anyone please show me textual evidence anywhere in United States laws, or legal documents (such as the Constitution) that states that you have the right to life beyond the regulatory scope of government power?

[Gilbert1908]

LostSoul3412 wrote: Can anyone please show me textual evidence anywhere in United States laws, or legal documents (such as the Constitution) that states that you have the right to life beyond the regulatory scope of government power?

In the Declaration of Independence which is one of the founding documents of the United States and the most influential document prior to the Constitution Jefferson and all the signatories make the statement of treason based not on Man's decree but on that of The Creator. In it they make it clear the very right of the colonies to exist is based on the unalienable right of each man to exist.

In other words neither government nor any human being or human institution has dominion over the inalienable "right" to life each human individual posesses due to endowment by the Creator.

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. "


In the preamble to the Constitution the purpose of that constitution is made perfectly clear as it relates to the words of the Declaration of Independence.

Preamble to the constitution;

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."


Here is the preamble to the state of MA which is still in place to this day.

"The end of the institution, maintenance, and administration of government, is to secure the existence of the body politic, to protect it, and ]to furnish the individuals who compose it with the power of enjoying in safety and tranquillity their natural rights, and the blessings of life: and whenever these great objects are not obtained, the people have a right to alter the government, and to take measures necessary for their safety, prosperity and happiness. "

[LostSoul3412]

Gilbert1908 wrote: In the Declaration of Independence which is one of the founding documents of the United States and the most influential document prior to the Constitution Jefferson and all the signatories make the statement of treason based not on Man's decree but on that of The Creator. In it they make it clear the very right of the colonies to exist is based on the unalienable right of each man to exist.

In other words neither government nor any human being or human institution has dominion over the inalienable "right" to life each human individual posesses due to endowment by the Creator.

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. "

That's fine, except for one thing...

The Declaration of Independence isn't a legal document under United States law. It has no bearing on any laws or government operation, and therefore cannot be used to prove that citizens have a right to life.

Gilbert1908 wrote: In the preamble to the Constitution the purpose of that constitution is made perfectly clear as it relates to the words of the Declaration of Independence.

Preamble to the constitution;

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

However, the Constitution of the United States has no connection to the people what so ever. It deals here with the purpose of government. To form a more perfect Union of the states, to establish justice set forth by the judiciary, the insure domestic tranquility beyond crime, to promote the general welfare of its citizens, and to set forth the principles of liberty so that the government does not infringe upon the liberties of the people.

No mention of the right to life, and no connection to any citizen.


Gilbert1908 wrote: Here is the preamble to the state of MA which is still in place to this day.

"The end of the institution, maintenance, and administration of government, is to secure the existence of the body politic, to protect it, and ]to furnish the individuals who compose it with the power of enjoying in safety and tranquillity their natural rights, and the blessings of life: and whenever these great objects are not obtained, the people have a right to alter the government, and to take measures necessary for their safety, prosperity and happiness. "

This is a different case. States are free to determine their own policy upon the right to life, as so are free to issue their own regulations on abortion (as the currently do with exception to first trimester abortions). I have no argument from state governments determining their stance on abortion, such is their sovereign right to issue policy, I am however, federal legislation on the issue beyond the ruling of Roe v. Wade which barred restrictions upon first trimester abortions. Beyond that, the states are in control.

However, the point still stands. Where in United States law or legal document does it state that you have the right to life beyond the regulatory scope of federal power?

[cap'n queasy]

What kind of idiot argues that he has no right to life?

[LostSoul3412]

cap'n queasy wrote: What kind of idiot argues that he has no right to life?

Me. Prove the idiot wrong.

[ChuckBerry]

LostSoul3412, I think you miss the point of the statements of the Declaration of Independence. What it means is that no human law is necessary to affirm a human's right to life; that right is endowed by The Creator, and cannot be given nor rescinded by any earthly authority.

IMO, this is precisely the problem that extreme secularists and others have when attempting to explain the source of rights. If there is no God, or no God can be acknowledged as the source of human rights, where then do human rights come from, and what guarantees that human rights as defined by a society cannot change as that society changes?

[LostSoul3412]

CCD wrote: LostSoul3412, I think you miss the point of the statements of the Declaration of Independence. What it means is that no human law is necessary to affirm a human's right to life; that right is endowed by The Creator, and cannot be given nor rescinded by any earthly authority.

I understand the Declaration completely, the problem is that it's not a legal document under United States law.

Where in United States law or legal document does it state that you have the right to life beyond the regulatory scope of federal power?

[Obilisk18]

LostSoul3412 wrote: CCD wrote: LostSoul3412, I think you miss the point of the statements of the Declaration of Independence. What it means is that no human law is necessary to affirm a human's right to life; that right is endowed by The Creator, and cannot be given nor rescinded by any earthly authority.

I understand the Declaration completely, the problem is that it's not a legal document under United States law.

Where in United States law or legal document does it state that you have the right to life beyond the regulatory scope of federal power?

Where in United States law does it state that you have a right to bodily sovereignty, beyond the regulatory scope of federal or state power?

[Selfish_Meme]

That really annoys me, posing a question as some sort of answer, he is not talking about bodily sovreignty! Either answer the damn question or butt out.

[cap'n queasy]

LostSoul3412 wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: What kind of idiot argues that he has no right to life?

Me. Prove the idiot wrong.

Gilbert already did. :lol:

The founding principle of the USA is that you have a right to life.

[Gilbert1908]

LostSoul3412 wrote: CCD wrote: LostSoul3412, I think you miss the point of the statements of the Declaration of Independence. What it means is that no human law is necessary to affirm a human's right to life; that right is endowed by The Creator, and cannot be given nor rescinded by any earthly authority.

I understand the Declaration completely, the problem is that it's not a legal document under United States law.

Where in United States law or legal document does it state that you have the right to life beyond the regulatory scope of federal power?
Is it your position that the state and federal laws which address murder are unconstitutional?

[LostSoul3412]

(Sorry for not addressing this part of your post earlier.)

CCD wrote: IMO, this is precisely the problem that extreme secularists and others have when attempting to explain the source of rights. If there is no God, or no God can be acknowledged as the source of human rights, where then do human rights come from, and what guarantees that human rights as defined by a society cannot change as that society changes?

Legally speaking, you do not have the absolute right to life. Secularism has nothing to do with that. The law, however, as everything to do with that.

[LostSoul3412]

Obilisk18 wrote: Where in United States law does it state that you have a right to bodily sovereignty, beyond the regulatory scope of federal or state power?

It doesn't, and you don't own your body.

[cap'n queasy]

Gilbert1908 wrote: LostSoul3412 wrote: CCD wrote: LostSoul3412, I think you miss the point of the statements of the Declaration of Independence. What it means is that no human law is necessary to affirm a human's right to life; that right is endowed by The Creator, and cannot be given nor rescinded by any earthly authority.

I understand the Declaration completely, the problem is that it's not a legal document under United States law.

Where in United States law or legal document does it state that you have the right to life beyond the regulatory scope of federal power?
Is it your position that the state and federal laws which address murder are unconstitutional?

It has to be.

[LostSoul3412]

cap'n queasy wrote: Gilbert already did. :lol:

The founding principle of the USA is that you have a right to life.

:td:

The Declaration of Independence is not a legal document, and the founding principles of the United States are not laws.

[LostSoul3412]

Gilbert1908 wrote: Is it your position that the state and federal laws which address murder are unconstitutional?

No, but that is irrelevant.

Laws that prohibit murder are restrictions upon my "freedom to kill". It has nothing to do with your right to live.

[LostSoul3412]

cap'n queasy wrote: It has to be.

See above.

[cap'n queasy]

LostSoul3412 wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Gilbert already did. :lol:

The founding principle of the USA is that you have a right to life.

:td:

The Declaration of Independence is not a legal document, and the founding principles of the United States are not laws.

Pfft.
Quote: Article VI
All debts contracted and engagements entered into, before the adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation.

This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the members of the several state legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers, both of the United States and of the several states, shall be bound by oath or affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.

[cap'n queasy]

Clearly, the Constitution is not only a legal document, it is the SUPREME law of the land.

Quote: Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

[LostSoul3412]

cap'n queasy wrote: Pfft.

Quote: This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.

Supremacy Clause, what about it?