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LDS Patriot
Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 200
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| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 3:13 pm Post subject: Anti-Mormonism Defined |
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I came across the web page of Paul McNabb's, "Five Signs of an Anti-Mormon".
Do you agree or disagree with Paul's definition copied below as to what constitutes the qualities and characteristics of an Anti-Mormon?
What parts do you agree with?
What parts do you disagree with?
Paul wrote:
A Brief Discussion of Anti-Mormonism
I will never classify a person as "anti-Mormon" who is defending his own beliefs, no matter how much at odds with LDS beliefs that may be. Contrasting what you believe with LDS beliefs and showing why you think you're right and the LDS are wrong is, in my book, not anti-Mormon.
People can step over the line and become anti-Mormon, however. (People can step over the line and become anti-anything, of course.) Usually it happens when a person become so passionate about proving Mormonism to be false that he stops being kind, tolerant, patient, and respectful.
Paul McNabb's Five Signs of an Anti-Mormon
An anti-Mormon is a person who does one or more of the following.
1) Describes Latter-day Saints or LDS leaders as being stupid, insincere, dishonest, or evil.
2) Accuses Latter-day Saints of having a "secret" doctrine or agenda, argues with Latter-day Saints about "what Mormons really believe," or refuses to accept a Latter-day Saint's description of his beliefs as being valid LDS beliefs.
3) Distorts and mischaracterizes LDS beliefs by presenting beliefs or citations out of context; presents the most unfavorable LDS behaviors or statements as being typical, normative, or authoritative; or presents and mocks LDS beliefs using parody, caricature, and demeaning language.
4) Interferes with Latter-day Saints in their worship and religious practice, such as by picketing Church buildings and events, shouting through bullhorns at LDS gatherings, etc.
5) Uses seminars, books, newsletters, websites, and other forms of mass media to specifically target Latter-day Saints to destroy their faith or to encourage others to do so.
http://paul.mcnabbs.org/religion/antimormon.html |
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Robodoon
Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Posts: 5027
Location: Lakeport
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| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: ANTI-MORMONISM DEFINED |
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LDS Patriot wrote: I came across the web page of Paul McNabb's, "Five Signs of an Anti-Mormon".
Do you agree or disagree with Paul's definition copied below as to what constitutes the qualities and characteristics of an Anti-Mormon?
What parts do you agree with?
What parts do you disagree with?
Paul wrote:
A Brief Discussion of Anti-Mormonism
I will never classify a person as "anti-Mormon" who is defending his own beliefs, no matter how much at odds with LDS beliefs that may be. Contrasting what you believe with LDS beliefs and showing why you think you're right and the LDS are wrong is, in my book, not anti-Mormon.
People can step over the line and become anti-Mormon, however. (People can step over the line and become anti-anything, of course.) Usually it happens when a person become so passionate about proving Mormonism to be false that he stops being kind, tolerant, patient, and respectful.
Paul McNabb's Five Signs of an Anti-Mormon
An anti-Mormon is a person who does one or more of the following.
1) Describes Latter-day Saints or LDS leaders as being stupid, insincere, dishonest, or evil.
2) Accuses Latter-day Saints of having a "secret" doctrine or agenda, argues with Latter-day Saints about "what Mormons really believe," or refuses to accept a Latter-day Saint's description of his beliefs as being valid LDS beliefs.
3) Distorts and mischaracterizes LDS beliefs by presenting beliefs or citations out of context; presents the most unfavorable LDS behaviors or statements as being typical, normative, or authoritative; or presents and mocks LDS beliefs using parody, caricature, and demeaning language.
4) Interferes with Latter-day Saints in their worship and religious practice, such as by picketing Church buildings and events, shouting through bullhorns at LDS gatherings, etc.
5) Uses seminars, books, newsletters, websites, and other forms of mass media to specifically target Latter-day Saints to destroy their faith or to encourage others to do so.
http://paul.mcnabbs.org/religion/antimormon.html
Mormans are Masons in hiding. ;) |
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Sam Spades
Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 240
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:35 am Post subject: |
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To me an Anti-Mormon is someone who does not defend his own beliefs but rather constantly goes on the attack.
There is nothing wrong with people questioning my beliefs as long as they can substantiate why they believe differently. |
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Tennouheika
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 434
Location: South Carolina, against my will.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| I suppose that would be anti-mormon, but the only thing I've noticed is people making fun of the goofy religion. |
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acerbus80
Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Posts: 235
Location: Montana
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:16 pm Post subject: Re: ANTI-MORMONISM DEFINED |
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LDS Patriot wrote: I came across the web page of Paul McNabb's, "Five Signs of an Anti-Mormon".
Do you agree or disagree with Paul's definition copied below as to what constitutes the qualities and characteristics of an Anti-Mormon?
What parts do you agree with?
What parts do you disagree with?
Paul wrote:
A Brief Discussion of Anti-Mormonism
I will never classify a person as "anti-Mormon" who is defending his own beliefs, no matter how much at odds with LDS beliefs that may be. Contrasting what you believe with LDS beliefs and showing why you think you're right and the LDS are wrong is, in my book, not anti-Mormon.
People can step over the line and become anti-Mormon, however. (People can step over the line and become anti-anything, of course.) Usually it happens when a person become so passionate about proving Mormonism to be false that he stops being kind, tolerant, patient, and respectful.
Paul McNabb's Five Signs of an Anti-Mormon
An anti-Mormon is a person who does one or more of the following.
1) Describes Latter-day Saints or LDS leaders as being stupid, insincere, dishonest, or evil.
2) Accuses Latter-day Saints of having a "secret" doctrine or agenda, argues with Latter-day Saints about "what Mormons really believe," or refuses to accept a Latter-day Saint's description of his beliefs as being valid LDS beliefs.
3) Distorts and mischaracterizes LDS beliefs by presenting beliefs or citations out of context; presents the most unfavorable LDS behaviors or statements as being typical, normative, or authoritative; or presents and mocks LDS beliefs using parody, caricature, and demeaning language.
4) Interferes with Latter-day Saints in their worship and religious practice, such as by picketing Church buildings and events, shouting through bullhorns at LDS gatherings, etc.
5) Uses seminars, books, newsletters, websites, and other forms of mass media to specifically target Latter-day Saints to destroy their faith or to encourage others to do so.
http://paul.mcnabbs.org/religion/antimormon.html
This could just as easily be called "Anti _____." Just fill in the blank with any religous denomination, or belief, or philosophy, ideology, whatever. |
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Immortal Wombat
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 35
Location: California
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Sam Spades"]To me an Anti-Mormon is someone who does not defend his own beliefs but rather constantly goes on the attack.
There is nothing wrong with people questioning my beliefs as long as they can substantiate why they believe differently.[/quote]
Hear, hear. |
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Buxford
Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 2637
Location: Louisiana, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| I am not anti-Mormon. I do, however, consider Mormonism to be a false religion, founded by a complete charlatan. And it is anything but Christian. |
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Buxford
Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 2637
Location: Louisiana, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Indeed. When you debate mormons, expect to be called "anti-Mormon" every time you back them into a non-escapable corner. |
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Todd D.
Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 3315
Location: Horned Frog Country
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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soldierofchrist wrote: Buxford wrote: I am not anti-Mormon. I do, however, consider Mormonism to be a false religion, founded by a complete charlatan. And it is anything but Christian.
Agreed. But they take opposition to their church as anti-mormonism and feed it to their followers.
To be fair, I know a LOT of Catholics that take this very same stance. |
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Axismaster
Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 36
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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soldierofchrist wrote: Todd D. wrote: soldierofchrist wrote: Buxford wrote: I am not anti-Mormon. I do, however, consider Mormonism to be a false religion, founded by a complete charlatan. And it is anything but Christian.
Agreed. But they take opposition to their church as anti-mormonism and feed it to their followers.
To be fair, I know a LOT of Catholics that take this very same stance.
True. A lot of protestants probably take that stance. But mormons, from my perspective, really like to trumpet opposition as anti-mormonism.
It is kind of like what the Jews do with the ADL. |
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JackarooSundown
Joined: 29 Oct 2005
Posts: 433
Location: Three thirty.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:52 am Post subject: |
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| You know, Im not exactly anti-mormon. But when somebody knocks on a door that has a cross on it, trying to get me to convert, I have no problem slamming the door. Im sorry, but I feel that is downright dumb to do. My friend with a star of david on the door gets visits from mormons too. |
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Thrilla
Joined: 23 May 2005
Posts: 21423
Location: Sin City
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:28 am Post subject: |
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wow.. sounds like some people in here have a beef with Mormons... why is that?
you can answer honestly.. im no longer a practicing Mormon.. although i still refer to myself as Mormon |
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The Good Doctor
Joined: 07 Jan 2006
Posts: 342
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:22 am Post subject: |
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Thrilla wrote: wow.. sounds like some people in here have a beef with Mormons... why is that?
you can answer honestly.. im no longer a practicing Mormon.. although i still refer to myself as Mormon
I wouldn't look too deep into it. They don't like any religion that's less than 2000 years old.
Oh, except Protestant ones. |
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JackarooSundown
Joined: 29 Oct 2005
Posts: 433
Location: Three thirty.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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Thrilla wrote: wow.. sounds like some people in here have a beef with Mormons... why is that?
you can answer honestly.. im no longer a practicing Mormon.. although i still refer to myself as Mormon
I don't have a beef with anyone until they are trying to make me one of them. I mean sure, go out there and preach but you believe, but when someone ignores the signs that I already have a religion, and tries to convert me, it bothers me. |
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Thrilla
Joined: 23 May 2005
Posts: 21423
Location: Sin City
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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soldierofchrist wrote: JackarooSundown wrote: Thrilla wrote: wow.. sounds like some people in here have a beef with Mormons... why is that?
you can answer honestly.. im no longer a practicing Mormon.. although i still refer to myself as Mormon
I don't have a beef with anyone until they are trying to make me one of them. I mean sure, go out there and preach but you believe, but when someone ignores the signs that I already have a religion, and tries to convert me, it bothers me.
I don't have a problem with it. I mean Jesus gave us the Great Commission. But I do have a problem with their teachings. People are free to be Mormons all they want, but I personally dislike it. nothing wrong with personally disliking ... nothing at all.
i just get a lil confused as to why the same old myths are floating around .. and i was jsut wondering if the myths had any basis for the dislike shown here.
like i said in the other thread.. i dont debate religion... religion is more complex than politics:lol: ... so i dont think anyone has the answers
and Jackoroo.. i agree... i dont like to be "recruited" either.. in fact .. that issue played a part in me leaving the church. |
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Sailor Moon
Joined: 22 Sep 2005
Posts: 2782
Location: O-town, Florida
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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I dont agree that mormonism is a religion. I have had recruiters come to my home and ask me "Have you ever been to a "true church" , which, in essence, is branding all other religions as "untrue".
The association, IMO, is an attept at elitisism, at best. Any religion that slams another religion in its first words to you, is not a religion at all. At least not a religion that follows the preachings of Christ. I also dont appreciate their idea that you can only "feel Gods presence" in church, which is their way of describing a "true church". I have only felt the presence of God strongly a few times, in a few churches, but I have felt the presence of God many times, at home, in stores, outdoors, while watching the sunset, while feeling a wind gust..
I dont like em and I thik theyre a bunch of hedons, to be perfectly honest. I am anti mormon, I suppose, but thats not to say that I hate them or anything.. I just dont like the communal "religion" they teach to their followers. |
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Thrilla
Joined: 23 May 2005
Posts: 21423
Location: Sin City
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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Sailor Moon wrote: I dont agree that mormonism is a religion. I have had recruiters come to my home and ask me "Have you ever been to a "true church" , which, in essence, is branding all other religions as "untrue".
The association, IMO, is an attept at elitisism, at best. Any religion that slams another religion in its first words to you, is not a religion at all. At least not a religion that follows the preachings of Christ. I also dont appreciate their idea that you can only "feel Gods presence" in church, which is their way of describing a "true church". I have only felt the presence of God strongly a few times, in a few churches, but I have felt the presence of God many times, at home, in stores, outdoors, while watching the sunset, while feeling a wind gust..
I dont like em and I thik theyre a bunch of hedons, to be perfectly honest. I am anti mormon, I suppose, but thats not to say that I hate them or anything.. I just dont like the communal "religion" they teach to their followers. well.. i think you just went and asserted that every religion isnt a religion then.... every one of them espouses themselves to be the "true" church. |
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ChaseNorth
Joined: 14 Nov 2004
Posts: 321
Location: CT/VA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:43 am Post subject: |
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I have a problem with people trying to convert me: My faith is my own damn business. I also have big problems with the way Mormons treat women within the religion and family life.
If that makes me anti-Mormon, so be it. It also means I'm anti-Muslim, anti-Catholic, and anti-evangelical Protestant.
There is no intermediary between me and my God.
I was born with free will. This means that when it comes to faith, I have every right to question whom ever and what ever I wish.
Those faiths that reject criticism out of hand because they are somehow above judgment are not only foolish, but also dangerous.
Faith is a work in progress, and is not the refuge of one man or religion. |
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acerbus80
Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Posts: 235
Location: Montana
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:01 am Post subject: |
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| considering that a large piece of the Mormon belief (the Lamanites, or native americans, being of middle eastern descent) has been scientifically disproven by using DNA testing, discredits them alot. And the history of racism in the church doesn't help any either. |
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LDS Patriot
Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 200
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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acerbus80 wrote: considering that a large piece of the Mormon belief (the Lamanites, or native americans, being of middle eastern descent) has been scientifically disproven by using DNA testing, discredits them alot. And the history of racism in the church doesn't help any either.
It is scientifically unsound to claim "scientifically disproven by using DNA testing." The DNA samples reflect only some, not all peoples. What is more, DNA testing is limited in this regard.
Get the facts before you jump to conclusions. Facts are our friends and shouldn't be shunned?
Here are the scientific facts to date::
Those who make this claim have not done actual DNA studies that had the premise of being a litmus test the Book of Mormons historical claims. Rather, they have sloppily borrowed other research and cast out unwarranted accusations against the Book of Mormon. Clearly this hardly is a "scientific" approach, as I'm sure you would agree (if you know anything about science in the least, that is).
DNA has supported New World immigrations from Asiatic populace, and to that we say, "So what?" This falls short of disproving the Book of Mormon for several reasons.
1) The Book of Mormon doesn't deal with all ancient New World peoples. Meaning, the geography and group in the Book of Mormon is very limited, and other peoples were present in the New World before Lehi's family came over. Take this into account and that means "scientific" conclusions are impossible.
2) We don't know what Israelite DNA from Lehi's time looks like. Therefore, without a base line, without knowing what to look for, "scientific" conclusions are impossible.
3) DNA markers can and do disappear. Take into account the combined effects of Genetic Bottleneck, the Founder Effect and Genetic Drift, and that means "scientific" conclusions are impossible.
DNA evidence is not incompatible with a belief that the Book of Mormon is an authentic ancient document. That is the only "scientific" conclusion that can be confirmed at the moment.
Is An Historical Book of Mormon Compatible With DNA Science?
http://www.fairlds.org/apol/brochures/BoMDNA.pdf
DNA and the Book of Mormon
http://www.fairlds.org/apol/ai195.html |
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