Political Crossfire Forums

Random Evil Guy · Joined: 20 Dec 2005 Posts: 1793

John wrote: Random Evil Guy wrote: John wrote:
I'm going to hold my ground that you have a concept what right and wrong is.

point is, that this concept of what good and wrong is varies from person to person.

Can I punch you in the face?

And if you actually enjoyed being punched in the face....would it be wrong to assume that there is something malfunctioning in your thought process?

do you think it is right or wrong to legalize gay marriage?

John · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 23739

Random Evil Guy wrote: John wrote: Random Evil Guy wrote: John wrote:
I'm going to hold my ground that you have a concept what right and wrong is.

point is, that this concept of what good and wrong is varies from person to person.

Can I punch you in the face?

And if you actually enjoyed being punched in the face....would it be wrong to assume that there is something malfunctioning in your thought process?

do you think it is right or wrong to legalize gay marriage?

Answer the questions.

Random Evil Guy · Joined: 20 Dec 2005 Posts: 1793

John wrote: Random Evil Guy wrote: John wrote: Random Evil Guy wrote: John wrote:
I'm going to hold my ground that you have a concept what right and wrong is.

point is, that this concept of what good and wrong is varies from person to person.

Can I punch you in the face?

And if you actually enjoyed being punched in the face....would it be wrong to assume that there is something malfunctioning in your thought process?

do you think it is right or wrong to legalize gay marriage?

Answer the questions.

no, i don't have to. saying we agree on one issue doesn't mean that we share the same views on what is right and wrong. on the other hand, it takes just one example to show that our views differ.

so again, do you think it's right or wrong to legalize gay marriage?

actually, you don't have to answer. i know you think it's wrong, while i think it's right. so you see, our views of what is right and wrong differ. game, set and match. thank you for playing...

John · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 23739

Quote: do you think it is right or wrong to legalize gay marriage?

I do not believe it is wrong to legalize it, but that it is wrong for two men or women to marry.

John · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 23739

Random Evil Guy wrote: John wrote: Random Evil Guy wrote: John wrote: Random Evil Guy wrote: John wrote:
I'm going to hold my ground that you have a concept what right and wrong is.

point is, that this concept of what good and wrong is varies from person to person.

Can I punch you in the face?

And if you actually enjoyed being punched in the face....would it be wrong to assume that there is something malfunctioning in your thought process?

do you think it is right or wrong to legalize gay marriage?

Answer the questions.

no, i don't have to. saying we agree on one issue doesn't mean that we share the same views on what is right and wrong. on the other hand, it takes just one example to show that our views differ.

so again, do you think it's right or wrong to legalize gay marriage?

actually, you don't have to answer. i know you think it's wrong, while i think it's right. so you see, our views of what is right and wrong differ. game, set and match. thank you for playing...

The point being that you do not have a problem understanding that it is wrong for me to punch you in the face. Because...it would never be "good" for someone to punch you in the face. It's an absolute.

Everything boils down to an absolute truth.

Random Evil Guy · Joined: 20 Dec 2005 Posts: 1793

John wrote: Quote: do you think it is right or wrong to legalize gay marriage?

I do not believe it is wrong to legalize it, but that it is wrong for two men or women to marry.

i don't. so we disagree on whether it is right or wrong.

John · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 23739

Random Evil Guy wrote: John wrote: Quote: do you think it is right or wrong to legalize gay marriage?

I do not believe it is wrong to legalize it, but that it is wrong for two men or women to marry.

i don't. so we disagree on whether it is right or wrong.

One of us is just closer to the absolute truth than the other.

Random Evil Guy · Joined: 20 Dec 2005 Posts: 1793

John wrote: Random Evil Guy wrote: John wrote: Quote: do you think it is right or wrong to legalize gay marriage?

I do not believe it is wrong to legalize it, but that it is wrong for two men or women to marry.

i don't. so we disagree on whether it is right or wrong.

One of us is just closer to the absolute truth than the other.

well, that's a completely different discussion. i thought the point here was that we all 'know' what is right and wrong, but sometimes make the wrong decision even though we know it is wrong... however, i gave you a counterexample that proved this notion wrong.

Random Evil Guy · Joined: 20 Dec 2005 Posts: 1793

John wrote: Random Evil Guy wrote: John wrote: Random Evil Guy wrote: John wrote: Random Evil Guy wrote: John wrote:
I'm going to hold my ground that you have a concept what right and wrong is.

point is, that this concept of what good and wrong is varies from person to person.

Can I punch you in the face?

And if you actually enjoyed being punched in the face....would it be wrong to assume that there is something malfunctioning in your thought process?

do you think it is right or wrong to legalize gay marriage?

Answer the questions.

no, i don't have to. saying we agree on one issue doesn't mean that we share the same views on what is right and wrong. on the other hand, it takes just one example to show that our views differ.

so again, do you think it's right or wrong to legalize gay marriage?

actually, you don't have to answer. i know you think it's wrong, while i think it's right. so you see, our views of what is right and wrong differ. game, set and match. thank you for playing...

The point being that you do not have a problem understanding that it is wrong for me to punch you in the face. Because...it would never be "good" for someone to punch you in the face. It's an absolute.

well, i'll play along. no, i don't think it's always wrong to punch someone in the face. it all depends on context.

The Central Scrutinizer · Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:51 pm Post subject:

John wrote: The Central Scrutinizer wrote: John wrote: The Central Scrutinizer wrote: John wrote: It is a fact that you can't help yourself from doing what you know is wrong.

So what is wrong? Refusing to give me a clear answer does nothing to help your argument. Saying that "I know" is pointless, because you have no clue what I know.

C.S. Lewis does a great job explaining it....although it took a whole book to really make his point.

I'm going to hold my ground that you have a concept what right and wrong is. If you don't...then explaining it to you isn't going to make a bit of difference. And my argument isn't that I can tell you exactly what is absolutely good...just that an absolute standard for goodness does exist. That point must be agreed to before my beliefs about what good is will make any sense.

We both have different opinion about what goodness is....that in itself proves that we both agree that there has to be a standard to compare to....otherwise the mere existence of goodness is nonsensical.

If we both have different opinions of what goodness is, what logically necessitates an absolute standard of goodness? I don't comprehend how you get from point "a" to point "b". We both might have different opinions of what "beautiful" is, but does that mean there exists an "absolutely beautiful" standard?

Think about what you're saying. Without a standard there can be no such thing what so ever as goodness or beauty. It would just be insanity.

The fact that we both agree that goodness and beauty exist, proves that there must be an absolute standard. Now one of us may be more correct in our opinion to something being closer of futher away from the standard....but the fact that we are making a comparison at all prove an absolute exists.

Insanity? How would it be insanity? We only define insanity by what we consider to be sane... much like we only define beauty, or goodness, in relation to their opposites. I disagree that we need an objective, absolute standard at all.

But that's simply not true. "Goodness" and "beauty" are just value-judgments that we make. I think that something is attractive, and I think it is "beautiful." I think that a particular action is just, and I believe it to be "good." Neither case necessitates an absolute standard.

The fact that two people agree something exists does not prove its existance.

kiss_armyman1 · Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:16 am Post subject:

dtwizzy2k5 wrote: Wow. That was the most ignorant oversimplification i have ever seen in my entire life.
That video didnt make a single insightful, intellectual point whatsoever.

My thoughts exactly !Wonder who the "monkey" was that made it!

3 minutes gone from life dang,I'll never get it back!

"Science has not yet taught us if madness is or is not the sublimity of the intelligence."

Edgar Allan Poe
American short-story writer, editor, poet and critic, 1809-1849

ieatfood · Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 6332

John wrote:

The point being that you do not have a problem understanding that it is wrong for me to punch you in the face. Because...it would never be "good" for someone to punch you in the face. It's an absolute.

Everything boils down to an absolute truth.

It is an absolute that it feels bad to get punched in the face. It feels bad becuase we have pain receptors and existence of pain receptors is an absolute objective truth.

However, good or bad and right or wrong are not absolute truths. To say that inflicting pain on others is wrong--there is nothing absolute about that. It is simply a principle that humans have made up, a priori of anything else. There is nothing absolute about right or wrong. They are all made up.

Enoch · Joined: 29 Aug 2005 Posts: 9042

John wrote: Random Evil Guy wrote: John wrote: Random Evil Guy wrote: John wrote: Random Evil Guy wrote: John wrote:
I'm going to hold my ground that you have a concept what right and wrong is.

point is, that this concept of what good and wrong is varies from person to person.

Can I punch you in the face?

And if you actually enjoyed being punched in the face....would it be wrong to assume that there is something malfunctioning in your thought process?

do you think it is right or wrong to legalize gay marriage?

Answer the questions.

no, i don't have to. saying we agree on one issue doesn't mean that we share the same views on what is right and wrong. on the other hand, it takes just one example to show that our views differ.

so again, do you think it's right or wrong to legalize gay marriage?

actually, you don't have to answer. i know you think it's wrong, while i think it's right. so you see, our views of what is right and wrong differ. game, set and match. thank you for playing...

The point being that you do not have a problem understanding that it is wrong for me to punch you in the face. Because...it would never be "good" for someone to punch you in the face. It's an absolute.

Everything boils down to an absolute truth. It is not an absolute. If someone was threatening me, or those I care for, I wouldn't hesitate to punch them in the face. In the case of "me or him," you better believe it would be good to punch him.

John · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 23739

Enoch wrote: John wrote: Random Evil Guy wrote: John wrote: Random Evil Guy wrote: John wrote: Random Evil Guy wrote: John wrote:
I'm going to hold my ground that you have a concept what right and wrong is.

point is, that this concept of what good and wrong is varies from person to person.

Can I punch you in the face?

And if you actually enjoyed being punched in the face....would it be wrong to assume that there is something malfunctioning in your thought process?

do you think it is right or wrong to legalize gay marriage?

Answer the questions.

no, i don't have to. saying we agree on one issue doesn't mean that we share the same views on what is right and wrong. on the other hand, it takes just one example to show that our views differ.

so again, do you think it's right or wrong to legalize gay marriage?

actually, you don't have to answer. i know you think it's wrong, while i think it's right. so you see, our views of what is right and wrong differ. game, set and match. thank you for playing...

The point being that you do not have a problem understanding that it is wrong for me to punch you in the face. Because...it would never be "good" for someone to punch you in the face. It's an absolute.

Everything boils down to an absolute truth. It is not an absolute. If someone was threatening me, or those I care for, I wouldn't hesitate to punch them in the face. In the case of "me or him," you better believe it would be good to punch him.

No...it wouldn't be "good" to punch anyone in the face.

Enoch · Joined: 29 Aug 2005 Posts: 9042

John wrote: Enoch wrote: John wrote: Random Evil Guy wrote: John wrote: Random Evil Guy wrote: John wrote: Random Evil Guy wrote: John wrote:
I'm going to hold my ground that you have a concept what right and wrong is.

point is, that this concept of what good and wrong is varies from person to person.

Can I punch you in the face?

And if you actually enjoyed being punched in the face....would it be wrong to assume that there is something malfunctioning in your thought process?

do you think it is right or wrong to legalize gay marriage?

Answer the questions.

no, i don't have to. saying we agree on one issue doesn't mean that we share the same views on what is right and wrong. on the other hand, it takes just one example to show that our views differ.

so again, do you think it's right or wrong to legalize gay marriage?

actually, you don't have to answer. i know you think it's wrong, while i think it's right. so you see, our views of what is right and wrong differ. game, set and match. thank you for playing...

The point being that you do not have a problem understanding that it is wrong for me to punch you in the face. Because...it would never be "good" for someone to punch you in the face. It's an absolute.

Everything boils down to an absolute truth. It is not an absolute. If someone was threatening me, or those I care for, I wouldn't hesitate to punch them in the face. In the case of "me or him," you better believe it would be good to punch him.

No...it wouldn't be "good" to punch anyone in the face. So, to avoid doing something "bad," I should just allow this man to harm me or those I love?

eynon · Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:52 pm Post subject:

Carlin wrote: wannabe wrote: Carlin wrote: Hasn't anyone found it funny? It's not meant to be a true educational piece (if anyone thought such a thing). It repititiously says "monkeys" for the sake of making someone like me laugh and pissing someone like you off. It need not piss you off, if you can bite into the crisp satire. In three minutes, the video addresses the neurosis, the biggotry, the doubt, the loneliness, the arrogance, the illusion, and the recklesness of man. In just three minutes it tears into everything many view as sacred and true, then spits it out like gum that lost its flavor. It's quite an impressive feat.

that kind of satire was crisp when Voltaire did it, but 250 years on I find it a bit soggy.......... :lol:

Voltaire made a 3 minute video summing up all the flaws of humanity? Is that on youtube? I can't wait to see that!

http://www.amazon.com/Candide-Optimism-Penguin-Classics-Voltaire/dp/0140440046/ref=pd_sxp_f_pt/102-3096331-4484112?ie=UTF8

like I said....soggy :)

John · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 23739

Quote: It is an absolute that it feels bad to get punched in the face. It feels bad becuase we have pain receptors and existence of pain receptors is an absolute objective truth.

So you're saying that it wouldn't be wrong to punch a paralyzed person in the face?

Or will you consider that absolute truths exist?

John · Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 23739

Enoch wrote: John wrote: Enoch wrote: John wrote: Random Evil Guy wrote: John wrote: Random Evil Guy wrote: John wrote: Random Evil Guy wrote: John wrote:
I'm going to hold my ground that you have a concept what right and wrong is.

point is, that this concept of what good and wrong is varies from person to person.

Can I punch you in the face?

And if you actually enjoyed being punched in the face....would it be wrong to assume that there is something malfunctioning in your thought process?

do you think it is right or wrong to legalize gay marriage?

Answer the questions.

no, i don't have to. saying we agree on one issue doesn't mean that we share the same views on what is right and wrong. on the other hand, it takes just one example to show that our views differ.

so again, do you think it's right or wrong to legalize gay marriage?

actually, you don't have to answer. i know you think it's wrong, while i think it's right. so you see, our views of what is right and wrong differ. game, set and match. thank you for playing...

The point being that you do not have a problem understanding that it is wrong for me to punch you in the face. Because...it would never be "good" for someone to punch you in the face. It's an absolute.

Everything boils down to an absolute truth. It is not an absolute. If someone was threatening me, or those I care for, I wouldn't hesitate to punch them in the face. In the case of "me or him," you better believe it would be good to punch him.

No...it wouldn't be "good" to punch anyone in the face. So, to avoid doing something "bad," I should just allow this man to harm me or those I love?

The lessor evil would be to take the sucka out. I would if my family was involved. But it would still be "bad"....or in other words...."wrong".

It seems that you are missing what I'm trying to say. I'm not trying to say that I sin less than you. Only that we are all guilty of sin.

Carlin · Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 12:32 pm Post subject:

wannabe wrote: Carlin wrote: wannabe wrote: Carlin wrote: Hasn't anyone found it funny? It's not meant to be a true educational piece (if anyone thought such a thing). It repititiously says "monkeys" for the sake of making someone like me laugh and pissing someone like you off. It need not piss you off, if you can bite into the crisp satire. In three minutes, the video addresses the neurosis, the biggotry, the doubt, the loneliness, the arrogance, the illusion, and the recklesness of man. In just three minutes it tears into everything many view as sacred and true, then spits it out like gum that lost its flavor. It's quite an impressive feat.

that kind of satire was crisp when Voltaire did it, but 250 years on I find it a bit soggy.......... :lol:

Voltaire made a 3 minute video summing up all the flaws of humanity? Is that on youtube? I can't wait to see that!

http://www.amazon.com/Candide-Optimism-Penguin-Classics-Voltaire/dp/0140440046/ref=pd_sxp_f_pt/102-3096331-4484112?ie=UTF8

like I said....soggy :)

Soggy? Is that a good book. I'm not sure why this book would make the 3 minute video any less amusing, but ok.

It's funny. The other day I amused myself when I was shaving by making monkey noises at myself in the mirror. Sometimes, it's nice to get in touch with one's roots.