Political Crossfire Forums

[Carlin]

John wrote: Quote: This video is a humorous look at human follies. That is all. You don't have to like it or believe it (even if it's true), but it was intelligently designed for laughs. I don't feel the video barrages us with straight up nihilism, rather it throws at us all the things people do that hurt other people, with the aspiration somebody will take it to heart. There is no rationality behind racism, sexism, ethnocentrism, religious intolerance, because all those are merely cultural inventions to establish order.

What the video fails to present....is the obvious conclusion that IF we really are just monkeys....then it really doesn't matter if racism, sexism, ethnocentrism, religious intolerance exist.....because in the end...it's all for naught.

Who gives a flying flip what monkeys on an inevitable path to being dirt do?

None of it is presented as good things. If you have to believe that there is some magical force behind everything and nothing matters without it, then that's your perogative and I encourage you to continue to think that way. But the video would not exist if the makers thought it didn't matter. What we do matters to us. It matters for how we live and who we effect.

[John]

Carlin wrote: John wrote: Quote: This video is a humorous look at human follies. That is all. You don't have to like it or believe it (even if it's true), but it was intelligently designed for laughs. I don't feel the video barrages us with straight up nihilism, rather it throws at us all the things people do that hurt other people, with the aspiration somebody will take it to heart. There is no rationality behind racism, sexism, ethnocentrism, religious intolerance, because all those are merely cultural inventions to establish order.

What the video fails to present....is the obvious conclusion that IF we really are just monkeys....then it really doesn't matter if racism, sexism, ethnocentrism, religious intolerance exist.....because in the end...it's all for naught.

Who gives a flying flip what monkeys on an inevitable path to being dirt do?

None of it is presented as good things. If you have to believe that there is some magical force behind everything and nothing matters without it, then that's your perogative and I encourage you to continue to think that way. But the video would not exist if the makers thought it didn't matter. What we do matters to us. It matters for how we live and who we effect.

Why does it matter?

[Carlin]

John wrote: Carlin wrote:
None of it is presented as good things. If you have to believe that there is some magical force behind everything and nothing matters without it, then that's your perogative and I encourage you to continue to think that way. But the video would not exist if the makers thought it didn't matter. What we do matters to us. It matters for how we live and who we effect.

Why does it matter?

Why does it matter that we hurt people for no rational reason? I don't know. Maybe because we hurt people for no rational reason?

[John]

Carlin wrote: John wrote: Carlin wrote:
None of it is presented as good things. If you have to believe that there is some magical force behind everything and nothing matters without it, then that's your perogative and I encourage you to continue to think that way. But the video would not exist if the makers thought it didn't matter. What we do matters to us. It matters for how we live and who we effect.

Why does it matter?

Why does it matter that we hurt people for no rational reason? I don't know. Maybe because we hurt people for no rational reason?

Who cares? Why does it matter? What is the rational reason for not hurting people?

I mean if all "people" really are are monkeys...which boils down to really just being a complex chemical reaction....then how can you say that hurting people is any less rational than living in peace? Seems to me that what ever just happens would be just the way it is...so whatever is the norm would be what is rational.

[Carlin]

John wrote:
Who cares? Why does it matter? What is the rational reason for not hurting people?

I mean if all "people" really are are monkeys...which boils down to really just being a complex chemical reaction....then how can you say that hurting people is any less rational than living in peace? Seems to me that what ever just happens would be just the way it is...so whatever is the norm would be what is rational.

The reason for not hurting people should be to not hurt people. Nothing is "just the way it is." Everything is a social creation invented for one reason or another. The social world is always in motion and always changing. It's easy to forget that and assume things run on their own, but it is always us at the helm. The world is much different than it was just 40 years ago and a lot different than 40 years beore that. Understanding this will propel us into an even better, more realistic, more efficient stage of our development.

[John]

Carlin wrote: John wrote:
Who cares? Why does it matter? What is the rational reason for not hurting people?

I mean if all "people" really are are monkeys...which boils down to really just being a complex chemical reaction....then how can you say that hurting people is any less rational than living in peace? Seems to me that what ever just happens would be just the way it is...so whatever is the norm would be what is rational.

The reason for not hurting people should be to not hurt people. Nothing is "just the way it is." Everything is a social creation invented for one reason or another. The social world is always in motion and always changing. It's easy to forget that and assume things run on their own, but it is always us at the helm. The world is much different than it was just 40 years ago and a lot different than 40 years beore that. Understanding this will propel us into an even better, more realistic, more efficient stage of our development.


What are you basing that on?

You can't say that the reason that the color blue is blue is because blue is blue.

Was hurting people ok 40 years ago, 80 years? 4000 years?

[Carlin]

John wrote:
The reason for not hurting people should be to not hurt people. Nothing is "just the way it is." Everything is a social creation invented for one reason or another. The social world is always in motion and always changing. It's easy to forget that and assume things run on their own, but it is always us at the helm. The world is much different than it was just 40 years ago and a lot different than 40 years beore that. Understanding this will propel us into an even better, more realistic, more efficient stage of our development.



[quoteYou can't say that the reason that the color blue is blue is because blue is blue.[/quote]

? It's blue because that is the name we've given the color blue. Although I have to admit, I'm not sure what you mean.



Quote: Was hurting people ok 40 years ago, 80 years? 4000 years?

40 years ago, it was socially acceptable to segregate schools (or make old black women move to the back of the bus) and 150 years ago, it was socially acceptable to own people as property. Things change, as they always do. I suppose the answer to the question, "is it ok to hurt people" has been a resounding "no" for quite a long time now. However, throughout various times and places in this world, if you ask a certain group of people if it's ok to hurt or enslave a specific type of person from another group (a person of any creed or race they may be in conflict with) and you would receive different kinds of responses.

[John]

Quote: It's blue because that is the name we've given the color blue. Although I have to admit, I'm not sure what you mean.

No. It's blue because of its frequency. It's still blue no matter what name we call it. You seem to think that things are the way they are because of our perception...I'm trying to get you to see that our perception has nothing to do with what is really true.


Quote: 40 years ago, it was socially acceptable to segregate schools (or make old black women move to the back of the bus) and 150 years ago, it was socially acceptable to own people as property. Things change, as they always do. I suppose the answer to the question, "is it ok to hurt people" has been a resounding "no" for quite a long time now. However, throughout various times and places in this world, if you ask a certain group of people if it's ok to hurt or enslave a specific type of person from another group (a person of any creed or race they may be in conflict with) and you would receive different kinds of responses.


On the same note, 40 years ago it was not socially acceptable to kill un-born children.

So what exactly is your point?

That it is ok to hurt people if it is socially acceptable?

[Carlin]

[quote="John"] Quote: It's blue because that is the name we've given the color blue. Although I have to admit, I'm not sure what you mean.

Quote: No. It's blue because of its frequency. It's still blue no matter what name we call it. You seem to think that things are the way they are because of our perception...I'm trying to get you to see that our perception has nothing to do with what is really true.

Yeah, I'm talking about the social world here. I'm talking about the social institutions and the social norms people create, not atmospheric and other scientific realities like the sky being blue, oxygen or gravity.



Quote:
So what exactly is your point?

That it is ok to hurt people if it is socially acceptable?

The opposite, actually. The point is to break free from social conditions that cause harm to others in any way we can.

[Topside]

John wrote: Topside wrote: John wrote: I think it does a fine job displaying what the fundamental of Atheistic logic is.



You are a monkey.

As an atheist, my only 'fundamental logic' is that I don't believe in a god. Or, rather, I believe in one less god than you do.



Which is based on you believing that you are a monkey.

No, if anything my self-monkey belief came after I'd concluded there are no gods.

[John]

Quote: The opposite, actually. The point is to break free from social conditions that cause harm to others in any way we can.

So we sould reject the social conditions that are wrong and accept the ones that are right?

Funny...that so happens to be the EXACT result of truly being born again and accepting Christ as your Saviour.

[John]

Quote: No, if anything my self-monkey belief came after I'd concluded there are no gods.

So you're basing one wrong conclusion on another?

[Carlin]

[quote="John"] Quote: The opposite, actually. The point is to break free from social conditions that cause harm to others in any way we can.

Quote: So we sould reject the social conditions that are wrong and accept the ones that are right?

It's all about growing and learning collectively.



Quote: Funny...that so happens to be the EXACT result of truly being born again and accepting Christ as your Saviour.

It's regardless of religious belief. It's about making the world a better place, not making everybody the same. Believing that everyone should follow one religious belief will cause needless strife.

[ikari]

John wrote: I think it does a fine job displaying what the fundamental of Atheistic logic is.



You are a monkey.

I am human. Humans and monkeys just happen to share a common ancestor.

[John]

Quote: It's regardless of religious belief. It's about making the world a better place, not making everybody the same. Believing that everyone should follow one religious belief will cause needless strife.

Well, it's the only way. It's just not gonna happen without God.

[Carlin]

John wrote: Quote: It's regardless of religious belief. It's about making the world a better place, not making everybody the same. Believing that everyone should follow one religious belief will cause needless strife.

Well, it's the only way. It's just not gonna happen without God.

We've come this far, haven't we?

[John]

Carlin wrote: John wrote: Quote: It's regardless of religious belief. It's about making the world a better place, not making everybody the same. Believing that everyone should follow one religious belief will cause needless strife.

Well, it's the only way. It's just not gonna happen without God.

We've come this far, haven't we?


Do you really think things are less violent now than they were before?

It isn't.

[eynon]

Carlin wrote: Hasn't anyone found it funny? It's not meant to be a true educational piece (if anyone thought such a thing). It repititiously says "monkeys" for the sake of making someone like me laugh and pissing someone like you off. It need not piss you off, if you can bite into the crisp satire. In three minutes, the video addresses the neurosis, the biggotry, the doubt, the loneliness, the arrogance, the illusion, and the recklesness of man. In just three minutes it tears into everything many view as sacred and true, then spits it out like gum that lost its flavor. It's quite an impressive feat.

that kind of satire was crisp when Voltaire did it, but 250 years on I find it a bit soggy.......... :lol:

[John]

Quote: Yeah, I'm talking about the social world here. I'm talking about the social institutions and the social norms people create, not atmospheric and other scientific realities like the sky being blue, oxygen or gravity.


That's where you're missing it. The Moral Law is just as much a scientific reality as sky being blue, oxygen and gravity. The only difference is that man in his fallen state has the free will and choses to break these laws.

Quote:
We've come this far, haven't we?

Doesn't your statement here prove that you believe in the Moral Law?

For there can be no improvement without a standard.

[Random Evil Guy]

Carlin wrote: Yeah, I'm big on the whole youtube thing. The educational value of this video is imeasurable: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ5LxocKSqI



heh, pretty funny imo and kind of true. humans are nothing more than a very advanced and intelligent animal...