Political Crossfire Forums

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Would you feel safer if everyone was armed? I know I would. How many robbers would be able to rob a bank if everyone in the bank had a gun? How many hijackings would succeed if everyone on the plane had a taser gun? This is common sense, folks. The government cannot always be there to protect us, and by disabling law abiding citizens from having full protection, criminals are actually being enabled.

Thoughts?

[ChuckBerry]

I would feel safer if open carry were legal.

[Lucky Luke]

Aereus wrote: Would you feel safer if everyone was armed? I know I would. How many robbers would be able to rob a bank if everyone in the bank had a gun? How many hijackings would succeed if everyone on the plane had a taser gun? This is common sense, folks. The government cannot always be there to protect us, and by disabling law abiding citizens from having full protection, criminals are actually being enabled.

Thoughts?

If what you say was true, America would have the most amazing low crime rate in the western democratic world.

Guess what Aereus? The American most heinous crime rate is truly amazing, amazingly high that is, insane some would say.

The rest of the American crime rates are very average, nothing to boast about and yet with all those guns it defeats your theory Aerus.

Compare different American cities and different American states with different gun control laws and you'll be truly amazed, that I can guarantee.

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[Lucky Luke]

CCD wrote: I would feel safer if open carry were legal.

That I would not disagree with you, the feeling of safety has indeed very little to do with how safe one really is.

It is accepted that in their daily lives people feel very safe driving their cars, some would even drive their baby to sleep and yet the car is the most likely place where people can get accidentally killed. The human brain is truly amazing when it comes to feelings versus facts.

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Lucky Luke wrote: Aereus wrote: Would you feel safer if everyone was armed? I know I would. How many robbers would be able to rob a bank if everyone in the bank had a gun? How many hijackings would succeed if everyone on the plane had a taser gun? This is common sense, folks. The government cannot always be there to protect us, and by disabling law abiding citizens from having full protection, criminals are actually being enabled.

Thoughts?

If what you say was true, America would have the most amazing low crime rate in the western democratic world.

Guess what Aereus? The American most heinous crime rate is truly amazing, amazingly high that is, insane some would say.

The rest of the American crime rates are very average, nothing to boast about and yet with all those guns it defeats your theory Aerus.

Compare different American cities and different American states with different gun control laws and you'll be truly amazed, that I can guarantee.

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The problem is that not everyone is armed and, in that case, safety could not be assured. Mathematics tells you as long as criminality is not the norm, criminals with guns would be outnumbered by law abiding citizens with guns. Think about it.

[ChuckBerry]

Lucky Luke wrote: CCD wrote: I would feel safer if open carry were legal.

That I would not disagree with you, the feeling of safety has indeed very little to do with how safe one really is.

It is accepted that in their daily lives people feel very safe driving their cars, some would even drive their baby to sleep and yet the car is the most likely place where people can get accidentally killed. The human brain is truly amazing when it comes to feelings versus facts.

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Do you actually read and attempt to understand the point of the posts you respond to, or do you just start typing?

Given the other posts of yours that I have read, it appears that the latter is true.

[Golden Child]

Would it make people feel safer? Undoubtedly. Would people be safer? No.

[Lucky Luke]

Aereus wrote:

The problem is that not everyone is armed and, in that case, safety could not be assured. Mathematics tells you as long as criminality is not the norm, criminals with guns would be outnumbered by law abiding citizens with guns. Think about it.

Your mathematics are telling you that more people are armed, less crime there should be and yet I have just proved your theory wrong.

Criminals are always outnumbered by law abiding citizens Aerus, that never stopped them.
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[Lucky Luke]

CCD wrote: Lucky Luke wrote: CCD wrote: I would feel safer if open carry were legal.

That I would not disagree with you, the feeling of safety has indeed very little to do with how safe one really is.

It is accepted that in their daily lives people feel very safe driving their cars, some would even drive their baby to sleep and yet the car is the most likely place where people can get accidentally killed. The human brain is truly amazing when it comes to feelings versus facts.

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Do you actually read and attempt to understand the point of the posts you respond to, or do you just start typing?

Given the other posts of yours that I have read, it appears that the latter is true.

What did I miss CCD?

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Lucky Luke wrote: Aereus wrote:

The problem is that not everyone is armed and, in that case, safety could not be assured. Mathematics tells you as long as criminality is not the norm, criminals with guns would be outnumbered by law abiding citizens with guns. Think about it.

Your mathematics are telling you that more people are armed, less crime there should be and yet I have just proved your theory wrong.

Criminals are always outnumbered by law abiding citizens Aerus, that never stopped them.
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That's only because they cannot defend themselves.

Who wins...the person with 1 gun or the people with 0 guns? There has to be a majority of people who can outpower those with guns.

[Adam Baum]

Crime control, not gun control!

Give police units better equipment and a higher pay, we will see the crime rate drop. For the most part, I think most police just don't care about preventing crime, well at least in my area. Citizens are taking up arms and protecting themselves here without police consent because the police just don't care!

We are considered safe because there is a gun and someone who can use it no more than 100-yards from any point in town.

[Golden Child]

Adam Baum wrote: Crime control, not gun control!

Give police units better equipment and a higher pay, we will see the crime rate drop. For the most part, I think most police just don't care about preventing crime, well at least in my area. Citizens are taking up arms and protecting themselves here without police consent because the police just don't care!

We are considered safe because there is a gun and someone who can use it no more than 100-yards from any point in town.

Giving police more money and better equipment wont make crime go down. Having better cops will. :lol: Seriously though, what better equipment could you give police? There is already S.W.A.T. and National Guard for the extreme purposes. What more could you arm a regular officer with? A bazooka? They already have a pistol and cuffs as well as having access to a shotgun and a vest.

Regardless, giving everyone a gun as a solution to another gun is pretty lame imo. If there were no guns there would be no gun violence.

Giving everyone a gun would make people feel safe, it wouldn't actually make them safe. It would be quite the opposite. Just because someone is recognized as a regular citizen doesn't mean they won't do something completely f***ing stupid with a weapon.

Since everyone would have a gun, they would wise up and use a gun to solve their problems. When those other people pull out their gun to solve the problem imposed by the person with the gun it probably wouldn't be solved with words. Overall giving everyone a gun would increase gun related deaths/violence not lower it.

[Lucky Luke]

Aereus wrote:
That's only because they cannot defend themselves.

Who wins...the person with 1 gun or the people with 0 guns? There has to be a majority of people who can outpower those with guns.

Of course they can defend themselves, people are defending themselves with or without guns. In fact American people with all their guns are defending themselves most of the times without the help of a gun. It is logic, who would want to carry a loaded gun 24/7?

Guns or no guns people are protecting themselves and defending themselves when it is required. Gun control laws are designed to make it difficult for criminals and wannabe criminals to get guns, this is where the difference is.

Less people with guns means less people to be outpowered with guns Aereus, making it safer for all.
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[Lucky Luke]

Adam Baum wrote: Crime control, not gun control!

Give police units better equipment and a higher pay, we will see the crime rate drop. For the most part, I think most police just don't care about preventing crime, well at least in my area. Citizens are taking up arms and protecting themselves here without police consent because the police just don't care!

We are considered safe because there is a gun and someone who can use it no more than 100-yards from any point in town.

The police here are for the vast majority unarmed Adam Baum and they do as good a job than the American police, guns are overrated when it comes to fighting crimes. Very few crimes require the police to be armed with guns. A police officer who can't work without a loaded gun should have chosen another line of work.

Check out the crime level in your area and you will be surprised Adam Baum to discover how guns are ineffective when it comes to fighting crime.
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[perdidochas]

Aereus wrote: Would you feel safer if everyone was armed? I know I would. How many robbers would be able to rob a bank if everyone in the bank had a gun? How many hijackings would succeed if everyone on the plane had a taser gun? This is common sense, folks. The government cannot always be there to protect us, and by disabling law abiding citizens from having full protection, criminals are actually being enabled.

Thoughts?

I would feel safer if all those that were legally allowed to be armed where, and that the great majority of criminals weren't.

[perdidochas]

Golden Child wrote: Adam Baum wrote: Crime control, not gun control!

Give police units better equipment and a higher pay, we will see the crime rate drop. For the most part, I think most police just don't care about preventing crime, well at least in my area. Citizens are taking up arms and protecting themselves here without police consent because the police just don't care!

We are considered safe because there is a gun and someone who can use it no more than 100-yards from any point in town.

Giving police more money and better equipment wont make crime go down. Having better cops will. :lol: Seriously though, what better equipment could you give police? There is already S.W.A.T. and National Guard for the extreme purposes. What more could you arm a regular officer with? A bazooka? They already have a pistol and cuffs as well as having access to a shotgun and a vest.

Regardless, giving everyone a gun as a solution to another gun is pretty lame imo. If there were no guns there would be no gun violence.

However, without guns there would still be plenty of violence. Also, it is next to impossible to rid the country of guns. If you make them illegal, only the law-abiding will be unarmed.

Golden Child wrote: Giving everyone a gun would make people feel safe, it wouldn't actually make them safe. It would be quite the opposite. Just because someone is recognized as a regular citizen doesn't mean they won't do something completely f***ing stupid with a weapon.

Most people in this country are allowed to have guns in their homes. Very few use guns to commit crimes.

Golden Child wrote: Since everyone would have a gun, they would wise up and use a gun to solve their problems. When those other people pull out their gun to solve the problem imposed by the person with the gun it probably wouldn't be solved with words.

That's a huge leap of logic. Nobody is saying that using guns inappropriately will be allowed, just that carrying guns will be allowed. Just having a gun doesn't cause people to all of a sudden start using guns to solve their problems. I've lived in a household with guns my entire life--first my father's household, now my own. Never once in either household, has a gun been used to "solve problems" except for killing snakes and squirrels. The leap to say that people carrying guns will use them to "solve problems" by shooting other people is not a logical one.


Golden Child wrote: Overall giving everyone a gun would increase gun related deaths/violence not lower it.

Personally, I don't think things would change a whole lot. The people I'm worried about with guns, already have them.

[Lucky Luke]

perdidochas wrote:

I would feel safer if all those that were legally allowed to be armed where, and that the great majority of criminals weren't.

Unfortunately or fortunately we are all born law abiding citizens, there is no way to determine in advance who should be armed and who should not.
Crime prevention is the key to a low crime rate, most people who committed gun crimes acquired a gun and the ability to use it before they started to commit crimes. You can only disarm them after the crime has been committed and once they are caught Perdidochas making a society without strict gun control laws for all full of armed criminals around planning to commit/or committing crimes.
Most criminals do not need a gun to commit the crime they wish to commit, let's make guns useless for criminals to keep and hard for them to get.
Arming the potential victims of criminals makes criminals have no choice but to get armed to go about their line of work. It is no deterrent, if it was America the world gun loving country would have the lowest crime rates around.
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[leftneckredwing]

Lucky Luke wrote: perdidochas wrote:

I would feel safer if all those that were legally allowed to be armed where, and that the great majority of criminals weren't.

Unfortunately or fortunately we are all born law abiding citizens, there is no way to determine in advance who should be armed and who should not.
Crime prevention is the key to a low crime rate, most people who committed gun crimes acquired a gun and the ability to use it before they started to commit crimes. You can only disarm them after the crime has been committed and once they are caught Perdidochas making a society without strict gun control laws for all full of armed criminals around planning to commit/or committing crimes.
Most criminals do not need a gun to commit the crime they wish to commit, let's make guns useless for criminals to keep and hard for them to get.
Arming the potential victims of criminals makes criminals have no choice but to get armed to go about their line of work. It is no deterrent, if it was America the world gun loving country would have the lowest crime rates around.
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Ah, so criminals have only one choice and law abiding citizens are to have no choice?

Punish the victims and reward the criminals. That's pro crime.

[perdidochas]

Lucky Luke wrote: perdidochas wrote:

I would feel safer if all those that were legally allowed to be armed where, and that the great majority of criminals weren't.

Unfortunately or fortunately we are all born law abiding citizens, there is no way to determine in advance who should be armed and who should not.

Well, that's the way the system works. Anything else is inherently against the ideals of liberty. We have to assume someone is innocent until proven guilty.

Lucky Luke wrote: Crime prevention is the key to a low crime rate, most people who committed gun crimes acquired a gun and the ability to use it before they started to commit crimes.

Your statistical proof of this? From what I've read (and it's in a DOJ murder study that we've both quoted before), only about 20% of criminals buy their guns legally from a gun store. About 40% buy their guns from straw purchases (usually relatives). About 40% buy stolen guns.

Lucky Luke wrote:
You can only disarm them after the crime has been committed and once they are caught Perdidochas making a society without strict gun control laws for all full of armed criminals around planning to commit/or committing crimes.

I'm willing to live with that risk in exchange for liberty.


Lucky Luke wrote: Most criminals do not need a gun to commit the crime they wish to commit, let's make guns useless for criminals to keep and hard for them to get.

The problem is that most gun control schemes make it harder for law-abiding citizens to get guns, and don't seem to affect criminals nearly as much.


Lucky Luke wrote: Arming the potential victims of criminals makes criminals have no choice but to get armed to go about their line of work. It is no deterrent, if it was America the world gun loving country would have the lowest crime rates around.

We have fairly low crime rates for a heterogeneous society.

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Lucky Luke wrote: Of course they can defend themselves, people are defending themselves with or without guns. In fact American people with all their guns are defending themselves most of the times without the help of a gun. It is logic, who would want to carry a loaded gun 24/7?
How do people defend themselves? Unless they know some form of martial arts, I don't see how most people could defend themselves without weapons.

Quote: Guns or no guns people are protecting themselves and defending themselves when it is required. Gun control laws are designed to make it difficult for criminals and wannabe criminals to get guns, this is where the difference is.
They may be "designed" for that purpose, but they do not achieve it. Traffic lights are also "designed" to keep accidents from occurring, but they will not stop criminals fleeing from cops from slamming into you. You can have all the laws you want, but sometimes the laws can't protect you; sometimes, you have to protect yourself.

Quote: Less people with guns means less people to be outpowered with guns Aereus, making it safer for all.
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Not necessarily. There are plenty of ways to kill people. Even if you succeed in your quest to collect guns, that will not stop other weapons from being used in homicides.