Political Crossfire Forums

[Ardent]

Alizard wrote: Ardent wrote: The Drug companies often charge
extortionate prices and make obscene profits
and this is one of the main reasons why medical
care is now so expensive.

The hospitals are just one part of the
equation.

Drug comapnies are raping consumers, but the main cost (by far) is hospital cost including physician's fees.

Yes drugs, hospitals, physicians fees are all
part of the equation.

Even in so called socialised health
services, doctors pay is substantial and
hospital costs signigicant. The main
difference is State Health Services
such as the British NHS don't have to pay
shareholders and are not in the profit
making business.

Hospitals are paid for
via taxes and as a result there
is less pressure on the lower paid
in society.

America spends more of it's taxes on
Defence, whilst Europeans tend to
spend more on other areas.

[98MustGT]

Ardent -

Yes we have a big problem re: hospital care. What effect if any do lawsuits and lawyers play in hiking up healthcare costs across the pond?

[JayDubya]

I completely and utterly disagree. Hospitals can perform charity work if they so choose, but I feel they have zero obligation to provide such service.

Hospitals, like anything else, should almost all be run for profit, with that profit leading to funding for medical research, expansion of services, and the salaries for more medical staff.

[AKAMad]

I have heard the US?European health debate before. But what people reason fail to take into account is the historical and cultural reasons. The reason why we have a NHS, and the US does not, is that we have been bombed more.

[Lumina]

tman_ndsu08 wrote: Lumina wrote: hospitals that turn away those with no insurance but with life-threatening medical conditions. A horror and simply unacceptable.


So, you'd rather that the hospital helped those people who couldn't pay and go out of business, which means they can't help anyone?

I'm not clear on what you're asking.

I am saying that those who enter into the "helping professions"--medicine, policie and firefighting, and teaching, and etc.--are doing their work for more than a profit motive.

I am also saying that a medical institution that would turn away a dying person based on his ability to pay is in the wrong business. The case I cited was about a dying toddler. A dying toddler who died because the hospitals turned him away for lack of insurance.

If you think this is somehow okay, I'm not sure what we have left to discuss.

[MplsBison]

Lumina wrote:

I am also saying that a medical institution that would turn away a dying person based on his ability to pay is in the wrong business. The case I cited was about a dying toddler. A dying toddler who died because the hospitals turned him away for lack of insurance.

If you think this is somehow okay, I'm not sure what we have left to discuss.

It depends on how you define "okay".

My point is that by saving the dying toddler, the hospital would have to use resources that the dying toddler's family could not pay for.


If that were to cause the hospital to go out of business, the hospital would no longer be able to save any dying toddlers, regardless if they could pay or not.


So, you'd rather that they save the 1 who couldn't pay and forget about all the ones in the future?

Is that "okay"?

[JayDubya]

I think it's reasonable for a hospital to turn away patients that can't pay and aren't in immediate lifethreatening danger... if they are, the hospital should help them, but those people should consider it a loan from the hospital that they will have to pay back... of course, hospitals can (and should) have money saved up for charity cases like this, and can gather private donations for such things.

The government need not foot the bill.

As is usual, I have faith in the goodness of individuals, but none in the goodness of politicians / government.

[Tempest]

Is there any problem in this country that can't be blamed on immigration and even illegal immigration?

Trade deficit, war on drugs, war on terror, war on the middle class, war on poverty, etc. Always seems to go back to immigrants and illegal immigrants.

The real problem with this country has been the citizens who elect those who act in their own self interest.

Anybody who really wants to cut the price of medical care would look at the price of drugs and more importantly the insurance costs of medical faciliities against medical malpractice. You can't offer reasonable healthcare while protecting yourself from the 10 million dollar malpractice lawsuit.

No much easier to blame the people who don't vote, work for $2 an hour and live in spaces that would violate the Geneva Convention.

[Ardent]

98MustGT wrote: Ardent -

Yes we have a big problem re: hospital care. What effect if any do lawsuits and lawyers play in hiking up healthcare costs across the pond?

This article was from 2002, so I should imagine costs
have risen even higher since then.

http://society.guardian.co.uk/nhsfinance/story/0,,689754,00.html

One of the things I found most surprising was that the
US has one of the worst MRSA rates on earth.

I expected America with expensive private healthcare to
have lower rates of infection that public health services,
but this is not the case.

So you pay large amounts of money expecting a clean
hospital, yet over 100,000 Americans die of Hospital
Infections every year.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/06/opinion/06mccaughey.html?ex=1275710400&en=d591e517f3c6f299&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

There are also new deadlier strains emerging.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1418561,00.html

[98MustGT]

Tempest wrote: Is there any problem in this country that can't be blamed on immigration and even illegal immigration?

Trade deficit, war on drugs, war on terror, war on the middle class, war on poverty, etc. Always seems to go back to immigrants and illegal immigrants.

The real problem with this country has been the citizens who elect those who act in their own self interest.

Anybody who really wants to cut the price of medical care would look at the price of drugs and more importantly the insurance costs of medical faciliities against medical malpractice. You can't offer reasonable healthcare while protecting yourself from the 10 million dollar malpractice lawsuit.

No much easier to blame the people who don't vote, work for $2 an hour and live in spaces that would violate the Geneva Convention.

I don't know any illegals who will work for less than $10.00, trust me I know I live in San Diego and I know lots of illegals.

Secondly there are huge outbreaks of Hepitis here in San Diego and other disease within the past few months

In addition we have had 8 ERs close in San Diego and LA in the past few years

[limbaughfan]

I say let the free market econemy rule,keep the government the hell out

[Lumina]

I say that when a dying baby presents at a hospital and is turned away, something is terribly, sickeningly wrong.

[MplsBison]

Lumina wrote: I say that when a dying baby presents at a hospital and is turned away, something is terribly, sickeningly wrong.

And this type of thought would cause more dying babies to go without care.


If hospitals go out of business, they can't help anyone!

[Anarko-Kapitalizt]

tman_ndsu08 wrote: Lumina wrote: I say that when a dying baby presents at a hospital and is turned away, something is terribly, sickeningly wrong.

And this type of thought would cause more dying babies to go without care.


If hospitals go out of business, they can't help anyone!

All hospitals should be nationalized ASAP!!!

[MplsBison]

Anarko-Kapitalizt wrote:

All hospitals should be nationalized ASAP!!!

Dr. X: "ah...another week spend hiding out in the my office, not answering my pager. Oh look, my check from the government has arrived right on time! Got to get out of here early and head up to the lake this weekend!"