Political Crossfire Forums

[wayne]

When is our country, my state of Pennsylvania especially, going to do something about hospitalization? Rendell lied in his campaign and said he would fix it, but has not touched the issue, instead he is making Pa. a gamblers gutter.

Hospitalization needs to be improved in this country and I really don't care if that means socialized medicine because something needs to be done. The illegal immigrants need to leave or be registered so we can fix this. The illegals are costing our medical teams so much that they are a real burden on society.

For Profit Hospitals really are evil, slave labor camps that have no place in the medical field. They cut the working medical staff to the bone and then they cut it again until the employees, including doctors and nurses are so stressed out they make mistakes.
For profit hospitals only accept patients with their favored insurance companies.
For profit hospitals are a stain on the community that they service....or don't service.
For profit hospitals put patients at risk....it's true.
For profit hospitals usually fire the hospital chaplain in the first cut.
For profit hospitals have to ship nurses in from out of state because the locals look for other places to work.

[Lumina]

Well, way to force the stiffening of any contrarian opinion.

Interestingly, just tonight I was e-mailing my best friend about hospitals that turn away those with no insurance but with life-threatening medical conditions. A horror and simply unacceptable.

Neither, however, does anyone sane want a nationalized health care system. Please, yet another areas for the feds to FUBAR?

For-profit hospitals are not "evil slave labor camps." This is a preposterous statement.

Flame-thread?

[Anarko-Kapitalizt]

Lumina wrote: Interestingly, just tonight I was e-mailing my best friend about hospitals that turn away those with no insurance but with life-threatening medical conditions. A horror and simply unacceptable.


I don't see anything wrong with that.

[00timh]

Why is it after over 200 years of the medical field prospering off of the sick and wounded do the liberals suddenly feel that it is evil? Just another BS call for socialism. Do you libs really believe that the doctors from way back when who owned their own private business and made housecalls were doing it all for free? :roll:

[Angelicus]

Lumina wrote: Well, way to force the stiffening of any contrarian opinion.

Interestingly, just tonight I was e-mailing my best friend about hospitals that turn away those with no insurance but with life-threatening medical conditions. A horror and simply unacceptable.

Neither, however, does anyone sane want a nationalized health care system. Please, yet another areas for the feds to FUBAR?

For-profit hospitals are not "evil slave labor camps." This is a preposterous statement.

Flame-thread?

In the United States it is a criminal act for a hospital to turn away someone with a life threatening condition simply because they have no insurance or aren't a member of their "group" etc.... According to law, they must treat an individual who has such an "emergency" untill they are stabilized and can be sent elsewhere, such as to a hospital that will take their insurance or a "community" one etc....But it has to be a truly life threatening emergency, a loose tooth, or a broken fingernail does'nt count.

That is why, in large part, the problem of illegals using the healthcare system is a problem to begin with.

They get into accidents get sick etc...need emergency care lest they die, recieve it, because the hospitals cannot legally turn them away, and then never pay the bill, and then the hospitals pass it right on to the state too pay it instead, when it "pays" the hospitals for "indigent care".

What really burns me up though, is that many of those people who are working in the medical field giving that care to these illegals, themselves have no medical insurance and cannot get nearly the same levels of medical care illegals many times get.

Just my .02 worth, let the flaming begin.

[00timh]

Angelicus wrote: Lumina wrote: Well, way to force the stiffening of any contrarian opinion.

Interestingly, just tonight I was e-mailing my best friend about hospitals that turn away those with no insurance but with life-threatening medical conditions. A horror and simply unacceptable.

Neither, however, does anyone sane want a nationalized health care system. Please, yet another areas for the feds to FUBAR?

For-profit hospitals are not "evil slave labor camps." This is a preposterous statement.

Flame-thread?

In the United States it is a criminal act for a hospital to turn away someone with a life threatening condition simply because they have no insurance or aren't a member of their "group" etc.... According to law, they must treat an individual who has such an "emergency" untill they are stabilized and can be sent elsewhere, such as to a hospital that will take their insurance or a "community" one etc....But it has to be a truly life threatening emergency, a loose tooth, or a broken fingernail does'nt count.

That is why, in large part, the problem of illegals using the healthcare system is a problem to begin with.

They get into accidents get sick etc...need emergency care lest they die, recieve it, because the hospitals cannot legally turn them away, and then never pay the bill, and then the hospitals pass it right on to the state too pay it instead, when it "pays" the hospitals for "indigent care".

What really burns me up though, is that many of those people who are working in the medical field giving that care to these illegals, themselves have no medical insurance and cannot get nearly the same levels of medical care illegals many times get.

Just my .02 worth, let the flaming begin. No flaming but I'm just about certain anyne who works in the medical field gets decent healthcare coverage. I've worked in the medical field and human services all of my life and I have never seen such a case. If it exists, it is extremely rare.

[Ardent]

The Drug companies often charge
extortionate prices and make obscene profits
and this is one of the main reasons why medical
care is now so expensive.

The hospitals are just one part of the
equation.

http://www.medadnews.com/News/index.cfm?articleid=374363

[JoeBen81]

00timh wrote: Why is it after over 200 years of the medical field prospering off of the sick and wounded do the liberals suddenly feel that it is evil? Just another BS call for socialism. Do you libs really believe that the doctors from way back when who owned their own private business and made housecalls were doing it all for free? :roll:
Have you read his other posts?? He's no Lib, he's on your side slick.

[Ardent]

I am always surprised when I hear
Americans talking about socialist
health care in Europe.

Most of Europe has mixed
healthcare and even the state
provision often has many private
elements.

In the UK the NHS does an excellent
job of providing emergency treatment
for heart attacks, accidents and
intensive care cases. Our major
teaching hospitals are amongst the best
in the world.

However the major area which let
the British Health Service down was
more minor routine operation waiting
times. In order to inprove the service
a lot of minor operations and routine
operations are now carried out by
private hospitals run by groups
such as BUPA, Nuffield and BMI, and
paid for by the Goverment.

http://www.nuffieldhospitals.org.uk/patient/patient_nhs.asp

Indeed BUPA itself is a non- profit
making organisation.

A large percentage of mental health
hospitals are also now run by private
companies.

Another major change concerns the
procurement of drugs, which can now be
bought at the cheapest price anywhere in
Europe rather than having drug companies
dictate price levels to the NHS and British
public. The NHS now can buy drugs directly
from the most competitive suppliers in the
EU.


It is also a European Market place when
it comes to operations and if you can get
treatment or surgery quicker in any EU
country then the British NHS now has an
obligation to pay for your treatment in that
country.

Hardly rigid socialism!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ardent]

The three major private hospital groups in the UK,
account for 50 per cent of private beds, they are
Nuffield, BUPA and General Healthcare (BMI).

BUPA, part of a mutual insurance group and the largest
of the private sector groups, pays no dividends or
interest charges and has a policy of reinvesting the
surplus.

Nuffield is a charity, a non-profit making
organisation which therefore pays no dividends.
These hospitals do not pay the full cost of capital
and their capital is, to some extent, a free good.

Only General Healthcare hospitals operate on a
‘for profit’ basis and pay the full cost of capital.


Britain's two major private hospital groups
BUPA (British United Provident Association)
is as the name suggest a provident and it
has no shareholders, all profits are simply
reinvested in to hospital treatment and the
same is true of the Nuffield Group, which is
one of the biggest private healthcare providers.

http://www.bupa.co.uk/about/

There are other private health providers in
the UK such as the Capio group and many
local authorities now use private companies to
provide low and medium secure psychiatric
facilties.

GP's in the UK run there own practices,
eye care is private and the majority
of dental care is run by private practices
and companies.

[BigOMG]

Ardent wrote: The Drug companies often charge
extortionate prices and make obscene profits
and this is one of the main reasons why medical
care is now so expensive.

The hospitals are just one part of the
equation.

http://www.medadnews.com/News/index.cfm?articleid=374363

I love this "statement", it so lame.
Shouldn't the companies and people who discover and test and make new drugs get paid for doing so? I think they deserve it. But of course due to bleeding hearts, drug companies aren't allowed to charge the fair price for the medicines they make, especially in 3rd world countries. To offset this, they charge more in countries where there is more disposable income per capita. It is a logical move, unless you don't want to treat small children in Africa with life saving penicillin or some other drug. Since all humans, and I mean ALL humans want something, it only makes sense to expect them to want to get paid for the years of hard work they put into developing new drugs.

If you can't see that, pull your head out and wipe your eyes off.

[Ardent]

BigOMG wrote: Ardent wrote: The Drug companies often charge
extortionate prices and make obscene profits
and this is one of the main reasons why medical
care is now so expensive.

The hospitals are just one part of the
equation.

http://www.medadnews.com/News/index.cfm?articleid=374363

I love this "statement", it so lame.
Shouldn't the companies and people who discover and test and make new drugs get paid for doing so? I think they deserve it. But of course due to bleeding hearts, drug companies aren't allowed to charge the fair price for the medicines they make, especially in 3rd world countries. To offset this, they charge more in countries where there is more disposable income per capita. It is a logical move, unless you don't want to treat small children in Africa with life saving penicillin or some other drug. Since all humans, and I mean ALL humans want something, it only makes sense to expect them to want to get paid for the years of hard work they put into developing new drugs.

If you can't see that, pull your head out and wipe your eyes off.

That's funny I was talking about the fact the same
drugs as are available in the US are much cheaper
over the border in Canada. I didn't mention the
third world. I just didn't think it was fair drugs
companies charging Americans more for the same
drug than their Canadian neighbours.

http://www.yourdoctorinthefamily.com/commentary/comm012.htm

Perhaps I should just take my head out as you so
politely put it.

Btw the Serious Fraud Office might disagree with
you, drugs companies make massive profits and
price fixing and fraud are common place. They
are not struggling companies ploughing all their
profits back in to research, they are some of the
most profitable organisations in the world.
The drugs companies currently spend twice
as much on marketing as they do on research
and development.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,8122-2119800,00.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2760281.stm

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,8122-2120896,00.html

The whole per capita drugs charging policy
doesn't happen in the EU where a free market
now exists between countries and our health service
can now buy drugs from the cheapest country or
source within Europe. It's called parellel trading
and it might hit drug companies vast profits but
it also ensures that taxpayers and those who
have private medical bills aren't being ripped
off by rather dubious drug company charging
practices.

[Angelicus]

BigOMG wrote: Ardent wrote: The Drug companies often charge
extortionate prices and make obscene profits
and this is one of the main reasons why medical
care is now so expensive.

The hospitals are just one part of the
equation.

http://www.medadnews.com/News/index.cfm?articleid=374363

I love this "statement", it so lame.
Shouldn't the companies and people who discover and test and make new drugs get paid for doing so? I think they deserve it. But of course due to bleeding hearts, drug companies aren't allowed to charge the fair price for the medicines they make, especially in 3rd world countries. To offset this, they charge more in countries where there is more disposable income per capita. It is a logical move, unless you don't want to treat small children in Africa with life saving penicillin or some other drug. Since all humans, and I mean ALL humans want something, it only makes sense to expect them to want to get paid for the years of hard work they put into developing new drugs.

If you can't see that, pull your head out and wipe your eyes off.

BigOMG "Shouldn't the companies and people who discover and test and make new drugs get paid for doing so?"

You are absolutely dead on right! So my question to you is, when are the pharmacuticals going to start paying the American taxpayer back?

See, most of (I'm not saying they all do) these pharmacutical companies by and large got the money to even develop these drugs in the first place from the NIH, wich gets its funding from, you got it, the American tax payer.

So Merck, and Bayer, when is the check in the mail?

[Alizard]

wayne wrote: When is our country, my state of Pennsylvania especially, going to do something about hospitalization? Rendell lied in his campaign and said he would fix it, but has not touched the issue, instead he is making Pa. a gamblers gutter.

In Kali, we have a health care crisis. A lot of hospitals are losing money and several closed. A big one just announced it is almost bankrupt.

The main cause is the deadbeats who consume extraordinarily expensive care and don't pay. Hospitals are not allowed to boot sick people because their money runs out (or they have none), and that means they have to take millions and millions in losses treating deadbeats.

And that brings us back to the issue of illegal aliens......

[Alizard]

00timh wrote: Why is it after over 200 years of the medical field prospering off of the sick and wounded do the liberals suddenly feel that it is evil? Just another BS call for socialism.

You have it completely backwards... we are calling for an END to socialism where hospitals are forced to accept critical patients who can't pay. And, we are calling for the government to get off it's arse and do it's job.... so there won't be ten million illegal deadbeats in our state sucking from the state's medical care trough.

[Alizard]

Angelicus wrote: Lumina wrote: Well, way to force the stiffening of any contrarian opinion.

Interestingly, just tonight I was e-mailing my best friend about hospitals that turn away those with no insurance but with life-threatening medical conditions. A horror and simply unacceptable.

Neither, however, does anyone sane want a nationalized health care system. Please, yet another areas for the feds to FUBAR?

For-profit hospitals are not "evil slave labor camps." This is a preposterous statement.

Flame-thread?

In the United States it is a criminal act for a hospital to turn away someone with a life threatening condition simply because they have no insurance

Yes it is, and that is called an "unfunded mandate" by the government. Force the hospitals to provide services but don't pony up the money to pay for it.

[Alizard]

Ardent wrote: The Drug companies often charge
extortionate prices and make obscene profits
and this is one of the main reasons why medical
care is now so expensive.

The hospitals are just one part of the
equation.

Drug comapnies are raping consumers, but the main cost (by far) is hospital cost including physician's fees.

[Alizard]

JoeBen81 wrote: 00timh wrote: Why is it after over 200 years of the medical field prospering off of the sick and wounded do the liberals suddenly feel that it is evil? Just another BS call for socialism. Do you libs really believe that the doctors from way back when who owned their own private business and made housecalls were doing it all for free? :roll:
Have you read his other posts?? He's no Lib, he's on your side slick.

Giving the same response over and over saves typing time..... :lol:

[Alizard]

BigOMG wrote: Ardent wrote: The Drug companies often charge
extortionate prices and make obscene profits
and this is one of the main reasons why medical
care is now so expensive.

The hospitals are just one part of the
equation.

http://www.medadnews.com/News/index.cfm?articleid=374363

I love this "statement", it so lame.
Shouldn't the companies and people who discover and test and make new drugs get paid for doing so? I think they deserve it.

If you can't see that, pull your head out and wipe your eyes off.

If you had any actual knowledge, you would be able to see. Drug companies engage in obscene practices including the use of frivolous lawsuits to delay patent expiration, gouging US health care providers for drugs they sell at a fraction of the cost in other countries (still making healthy profits) and threatening to withold drugs from sources in other countries that sell to US citizens.

Their actions are obscene.

Nobody is saying they don't have the right to make a reasonable profit.

[MplsBison]

Lumina wrote: hospitals that turn away those with no insurance but with life-threatening medical conditions. A horror and simply unacceptable.


So, you'd rather that the hospital helped those people who couldn't pay and go out of business, which means they can't help anyone?