Political Crossfire Forums

[Dionisis]

Orange revolution in Ukraine- do you see any changes living not in Ukraine? I mean that Ukrainian nation was waiting for it for a long time but got nothing... Europe was interested in changing government in Ukraine too.. Do they get something? Please share your personal opinion about this revolution and results of it.

[b.scheller]

Nothing will happen, until Russia decides to allow Ukraine to really take it's own reigns over everything. Not to say that Ukraine is not a sovereign state, however, Moscow has had greatly idled in their affairs. Their great closeness of economic ties, the fact that Russia gives most of the energy to the Ukraine has only cost the Ukrainians a freedom within their foreign policy and the policy within the state.

When a country is that dependant on one state alone, especially as big as Russia, I don't think they will ever truly be free of their reign. It's sad, because Ukraine and much of the former republics are still under the control of the Kremlin. Although the amount of control varies, it however does effect the way they act.

Thus, I believe the orange revolution has largely failed into bringing any real change to Ukraine. However, it has been a rather short amount of time. I think, we should realize that for democracy to take a foothold there has to be a good amount of time to pass. Especially since, liberal democracy can take on many forms and the type that the U.S has perfected is not necessairly and is not surely at all the one model that everyone should follow.

[TheKrava]

I closely follow news in Ukraine and here is what I think:

Orange revolution was a great thing. It was like one important step. But, you should not forget that one step is never enough. Dependence from Russia is mainly political BS, Ukraine CAN survive on its own.
The problem that Orange Revolution had was that one of its leaders, Tymoshenko, is a populist. Her economical decisions and ideas were totaly stupid and economically uneducated. Also, as soon as she became a PM her actions started inflation. She attempted to fight gasoline prices by imposing a price ceiling for gas station - this action would make any person with at least slight background in economics burst in laugh.
In short, the years when Tymoshenko was in power Ukraine saw nothing else but economic recession.

Yuschenko faced only two choices - let things go on their own and end up with complete economic collapse, or fire Tymoshenko and try to get by without her.
You know what Yuschenko decided to do.
Next PM in Ukraine was not too impressive, but he was definetely better than Tymoshenko.


I think Yuschenko himself would be much better as a PM in Ukraine, not a president. Yuschenko is not tough enough to defend his position. Also, now he has Tymoshenko in opposition that keeps pressuring him.

In short, Orange Revolution almost failed.
The only good thing about the Revolution is that people are left with more sense of freedoms than before it. Also, government knows - they need to pay more attention to people's needs.
This is a good start. Democracy is a very slow process. People need to understand how it works and what it means. From the standpoint of freedoms Orange Revolution succeded. From economic point of view the revolution failed. The thing is - the revolution was not supposed to be about economy, it's about freedoms. Economy will improve, that's for sure, people just need to wait.

I could not believe that some people from Ukraine kept saying a half year after Yuschenko came to power that economically people's lives did not change. How can you expect from one president significant changes? Usually a president cannot change an economy more than +/- 10%.

So, as for me... Ukraine just need to wait and keep doing what it's doing. Yanukovich's budget for next year - he cut huge spending that was caused by Tymoshenko, increased taxes a bit (which is pretty good in curent conditions) and he is encauraging R&D.

Just my two cents.


PS: I used to be a supporter of Orange Revolution. I still think that even if Yanukovich, or whoever from that party becomes a president Orange Revolution did not completely fail - Yanukovich and his party respect people's freedoms more than they did before.

[Dionisis]

I think all TheKrava & b.scheller said right. I share yours opinion. But due to Russia we have to wait till their president election. I think something can change in the nearest future if Medvedev ( Putin's successor) wont be a president.. But even in this case i think they'll give more political space for Ukraine. New team will be more democratic I think. The only thing is that Ukraine wont be in NATO and Russia will win in this question.

[Slava]

Dionisis, I think you’re overemphasising Russia’s influence on Ukraine. For example, the overwhelming majority of Ukraine’s population is against NATO membership, so why blame Russia for this? You are an independent country, so please stop looking back at Russia and using it as a scapegoat for all your misfortunes.

[Dionisis]

Slava, the matter is that Russia doesn't stay back in Ukrainian Politic... Ukrainian nation is against NATO you are right. But Russia was the side in orange revolution that support Yanukovich and no one can object it... And its action was not as Poland or other countries... Russian used to make a politic in Ukraine- its own politic. The one more problem of Ukraine is that half of our politicians can see only USA and try to make everything that US Government advice them and other which prefer to make Kremlin advice... We have to look in the same way... both of countries- EU... But that is possible with some changes in Ukraine and Russia.

[Slava]

Dionisis wrote: Slava, the matter is that Russia doesn't stay back in Ukrainian Politic... Ukrainian nation is against NATO you are right. But Russia was the side in orange revolution that support Yanukovich and no one can object it...
Obviously, Russia was on Yanukovich's side. This is even more obvious that the West, including the US and Poland, were on Yuschenko's side. And their attitude towards Ukraine was at least as unbalanced, unfair and biased as that of Russia. So when you write Quote: And its action was not as Poland or other countries... Russian used to make a politic in Ukraine- its own politic. I wonder whether you (and the people of Ukraine on the whole) are able to realise that "Poland and other countries" were also capitalising on the Ukrainian events and making their own politics.

Quote: The one more problem of Ukraine is that half of our politicians can see only USA and try to make everything that US Government advice them and other which prefer to make Kremlin advice... We have to look in the same way... both of countries- EU... But that is possible with some changes in Ukraine and Russia.
I would generally agree with you on this.

[Propaganda]

Ahhhhhh, back to the Orange subject. I can't belive someone still believes that all this fuss actually got Ukraine anywhere.

Here's joke about the orange revolution I read on Obozrevatel a Ukrainian news site(it's dirty as hell, so i'll put it in Russian):

Спермы плывут по телу, рвутся в перёд, толкаются, пытаются до яйца добраться.
Вдруг один кричит: ПАЦАНЫ! Нас наебали, этож ЖОПА!

I hope everyone who understands Russian enjoys it. :wink: