Political Crossfire Forums

[Carlin]

http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=214&ar=1050wmv&ak=null

Mostly she seems to be painting with a broad brush of all Muslims, but I agree with her principles on faith. While they live within a fundamentalist culture, Muslims are not terrorists. People confuse the motive with the psyche. The terorist who cause harm to people of different religions, races, creeds, do so because they are susceptible to it. If it weren't their religion they were using as an excuse, it would be something else. Even if religion impedes on rational thought, it is not the sole proprietor. The doctrine of Islam is about a submission to God. And if anything, it more so resembles the quaker view that everyone has an outlet to God and it doesn't matter what religion one plugs into. Unfortunately, religion is too often used as the authoritative medium. People use the religion to gain and sustain power. Islam made the mistake of stating politics and religion are one of the same. A society cannot be fairly or effectively ran if that is so. Religion is a social construction and a social tool.

Violence and war always boil down to ethnocentrism. No matter where we are born on this gorgous plantet, our first inclination is to believe that how we live is better; how we eat is better, how we socially interact is better, and how our religion is oh, so much better. Instead of acknowledging and moving on from this obvious psychological trend, we act as though it doesn't exist. We consistently fail to realize that in every man, woman, and child whoever lived in this world, the impermanence of life radiated from their eyes, their faces, their cries, and their laughter. That all that divides one person from another is a complete and utter concoction of our minds.

[FreedomSpeech]

Carlin wrote: http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=214&ar=1050wmv&ak=null

Mostly she seems to be painting with a broad brush of all Muslims, but I agree with her principles on faith. While they live within a fundamentalist culture, Muslims are not terrorists. People confuse the motive with the psyche. The terorist who cause harm to people of different religions, races, creeds, do so because they are susceptible to it. If it weren't their religion they were using as an excuse, it would be something else. Even if religion impedes on rational thought, it is not the sole proprietor. The doctrine of Islam is about a submission to God. And if anything, it more so resembles the quaker view that everyone has an outlet to God and it doesn't matter what religion one plugs into. Unfortunately, religion is too often used as the authoritative medium. People use the religion to gain and sustain power. Islam made the mistake of stating politics and religion are one of the same. A society cannot be fairly or effectively ran if that is so. Religion is a social construction and a social tool.

Violence and war always boil down to ethnocentrism. No matter where we are born on this gorgous plantet, our first inclination is to believe that how we live is better; how we eat is better, how we socially interact is better, and how our religion is oh, so much better. Instead of acknowledging and moving on from this obvious psychological trend, we act as though it doesn't exist. We consistently fail to realize that in every man, woman, and child whoever lived in this world, the impermanence of life radiated from their eyes, their faces, their cries, and their laughter. That all that divides one person from another is a complete and utter concoction of our minds.
LOL :D, this woman (wafa sultan) is so so amusing. She claims to know what Islam is though she knows nothing about Islam's commands. Believe me, I had a very good laugh about this video, but my biggest laughs were when those black screens faded in and out cutting the parts when this woman couldn't answer the really hard questions Dr. Faisal al-Qasem asked her. Trust me, don't count on this video excerpts to prove your points, because the full video of this epsiode is used by Muslims to convince people about how peacful Islam is. This woman has definitely lost the argument (if you see the whole episode you would agree me)

However, its true that there are terrorists who understand Islam's commands incorrectly and then justify their terror attacks. But that's not only Islam, there are christian terrorists and jews terrorists (by the way, Israel is seen as a terrorist state by most Muslims and by looking at the latest events I say they have the right to say this) .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

Islam does not state that religion and politics are the same; Islam is more than just a religion, its an economic, political, social order. It teaches Muslims everything a human being can be taught during life; this includes, economic, politics, manners, how to act in wars and many other things. People who claim Islam is a terrorist religion they drew their conclusion by taking one verse or two of Islam's command in wars, they don't look at the Islam as a whole, instead they just take parts of Qur'an to prove their points. Ask any Muslim scholar and you would know that Muslims are NOT allowed in initiate a new war with any other nation without a valid reason. Valid reasons are mentioned clearly in Qur'an and Hadith and those reasons are really justifiable (such as, don't attack unless you are attacked first or unless you know you're going to be attacked - i.e. a nation declared war on you) , I'm not an expert in Islamic Fiqh so I can't give you details about this, however, if you interested in Islamic teachings I would suggest reading about Islamic Fiqh but please if you're going to do this, please make sure you that the resource is a valid and trustworthy resource (many websites claim to give information about Islam but they give very incorrect information).

[Muslima]

FreedomSpeech wrote: Carlin wrote: http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=214&ar=1050wmv&ak=null

Mostly she seems to be painting with a broad brush of all Muslims, but I agree with her principles on faith. While they live within a fundamentalist culture, Muslims are not terrorists. People confuse the motive with the psyche. The terorist who cause harm to people of different religions, races, creeds, do so because they are susceptible to it. If it weren't their religion they were using as an excuse, it would be something else. Even if religion impedes on rational thought, it is not the sole proprietor. The doctrine of Islam is about a submission to God. And if anything, it more so resembles the quaker view that everyone has an outlet to God and it doesn't matter what religion one plugs into. Unfortunately, religion is too often used as the authoritative medium. People use the religion to gain and sustain power. Islam made the mistake of stating politics and religion are one of the same. A society cannot be fairly or effectively ran if that is so. Religion is a social construction and a social tool.

Violence and war always boil down to ethnocentrism. No matter where we are born on this gorgous plantet, our first inclination is to believe that how we live is better; how we eat is better, how we socially interact is better, and how our religion is oh, so much better. Instead of acknowledging and moving on from this obvious psychological trend, we act as though it doesn't exist. We consistently fail to realize that in every man, woman, and child whoever lived in this world, the impermanence of life radiated from their eyes, their faces, their cries, and their laughter. That all that divides one person from another is a complete and utter concoction of our minds.
LOL :D, this woman (wafa sultan) is so so amusing. She claims to know what Islam is though she knows nothing about Islam's commands. Believe me, I had a very good laugh about this video, but my biggest laughs were when those black screens faded in and out cutting the parts when this woman couldn't answer the really hard questions Dr. Faisal al-Qasem asked her. Trust me, don't count on this video excerpts to prove your points, because the full video of this epsiode is used by Muslims to convince people about how peacful Islam is. This woman has definitely lost the argument (if you see the whole episode you would agree me)

However, its true that there are terrorists who understand Islam's commands incorrectly and then justify their terror attacks. But that's not only Islam, there are christian terrorists and jews terrorists (by the way, Israel is seen as a terrorist state by most Muslims and by looking at the latest events I say they have the right to say this) .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

Islam does not state that religion and politics are the same; Islam is more than just a religion, its an economic, political, social order. It teaches Muslims everything a human being can be taught during life; this includes, economic, politics, manners, how to act in wars and many other things. People who claim Islam is a terrorist religion they drew their conclusion by taking one verse or two of Islam's command in wars, they don't look at the Islam as a whole, instead they just take parts of Qur'an to prove their points. Ask any Muslim scholar and you would know that Muslims are NOT allowed in initiate a new war with any other nation without a valid reason. Valid reasons are mentioned clearly in Qur'an and Hadith and those reasons are really justifiable (such as, don't attack unless you are attacked first or unless you know you're going to be attacked - i.e. a nation declared war on you) , I'm not an expert in Islamic Fiqh so I can't give you details about this, however, if you interested in Islamic teachings I would suggest reading about Islamic Fiqh but please if you're going to do this, please make sure you that the resource is a valid and trustworthy resource (many websites claim to give information about Islam but they give very incorrect information).


:clap: :clap: :clap:

[Carlin]

FreedomSpeech wrote: LOL :D, this woman (wafa sultan) is so so amusing. She claims to know what Islam is though she knows nothing about Islam's commands. Believe me, I had a very good laugh about this video, but my biggest laughs were when those black screens faded in and out cutting the parts when this woman couldn't answer the really hard questions Dr. Faisal al-Qasem asked her. Trust me, don't count on this video excerpts to prove your points, because the full video of this epsiode is used by Muslims to convince people about how peacful Islam is. This woman has definitely lost the argument (if you see the whole episode you would agree me)

However, its true that there are terrorists who understand Islam's commands incorrectly and then justify their terror attacks. But that's not only Islam, there are christian terrorists and jews terrorists (by the way, Israel is seen as a terrorist state by most Muslims and by looking at the latest events I say they have the right to say this) .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

Islam does not state that religion and politics are the same; Islam is more than just a religion, its an economic, political, social order. It teaches Muslims everything a human being can be taught during life; this includes, economic, politics, manners, how to act in wars and many other things. People who claim Islam is a terrorist religion they drew their conclusion by taking one verse or two of Islam's command in wars, they don't look at the Islam as a whole, instead they just take parts of Qur'an to prove their points. Ask any Muslim scholar and you would know that Muslims are NOT allowed in initiate a new war with any other nation without a valid reason. Valid reasons are mentioned clearly in Qur'an and Hadith and those reasons are really justifiable (such as, don't attack unless you are attacked first or unless you know you're going to be attacked - i.e. a nation declared war on you) , I'm not an expert in Islamic Fiqh so I can't give you details about this, however, if you interested in Islamic teachings I would suggest reading about Islamic Fiqh but please if you're going to do this, please make sure you that the resource is a valid and trustworthy resource (many websites claim to give information about Islam but they give very incorrect information).

I can't disagree with any of this; although it doensn't mean it has been correctly inacted by all Muslim groups in history. I don't claim Sultan is correct in her broad painting of Islam. I planted the link to broaden a discussion on where many Muslims here stand on religious freedoms and separation between faith and the state.

One note on the video: there was that part when the Muslim asked Sultan, "are you a heretic? Because if you are, there's no point in speaking with you." This line concerns me because it is the foundation of facism. The man obviously believes that her points are not valid because she is not a muslim (or religious), therefore she should be silenced. Sultan said people should allow eachother to believe what they want, the guy said Sultan shouldn't be spoken with; which one do you think is worse?

[israelshallovercome]

This Jihad (holy war) is not something that is just going to end. They take their religion seriously because the Bible is all about their cultures beginings. They have been fighting this war since Genesis and it will not end until the second coming of Jesus Christ the Messiah. Too bad that all the Muslims are going to spend eternity in Hell They are so devoted to their religion and creeds yet it is all in vain.

[Muslima]

israelshallovercome wrote: This Jihad (holy war) is not something that is just going to end. They take their religion seriously because the Bible is all about their cultures beginings. They have been fighting this war since Genesis and it will not end until the second coming of Jesus Christ the Messiah. Too bad that all the Muslims are going to spend eternity in Hell They are so devoted to their religion and creeds yet it is all in vain.


You can't say that about any religion in this world. Everybody says that they are on the right track, so don't be sure about your sentence.

[Ubon94]

She has good points. I like the stone part hahaha
Unfortunately, people heads are to far in someone else butts that nothing will change for time being.

[johnshotme]

I saw this on another forum, its a great video

[Saracen]

Wait... are you talking about THE Wafa Sultan who had her @$$ owned on Al Jazeera?

[starwest]

this woman gives hope to the millions of Muslims' who are wanting to distance themselves as far from the crazy irrational extremist Islamics as possible...
Very courageous!!!{in light of the bounty placed on her head by the terrorist Jihad Muslims}...

[Red Flag]

No, but just like any other religious fanatics "Al-Queda" for example try to instill there moral beliefs on others. God put us on this earth to make our own destinies, decisions and morals. Whoever tries to change that IS taking it too seriously.

In nomini deus. Jesus Akbar

[eynon]

FreedomSpeech wrote: However, its true that there are terrorists who understand Islam's commands incorrectly and then justify their terror attacks. But that's not only Islam, there are christian terrorists and jews terrorists (by the way, Israel is seen as a terrorist state by most Muslims and by looking at the latest events I say they have the right to say this) .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

short list...........but then again Western nations with large Christian populations are among the most powerful on earth........one does not need to resort to suicide bombing when you have hundreds of F-16s fighting you cause.

If the power was reversed though rest assured Christians would resort to terrorism.

[Saracen]

starwest wrote: this woman gives hope to the millions of Muslims' who are wanting to distance themselves as far from the crazy irrational extremist Islamics as possible...
Very courageous!!!{in light of the bounty placed on her head by the terrorist Jihad Muslims}...

Her argument is racist in nature: all it is is just bashing Muslims as backwards and stupid, forgetting that indeed all that has changed them was politics. Dirty politics and colonialism that shaped many, though not by any means most, of them into fanatics.

Red Flag wrote: No, but just like any other religious fanatics "Al-Queda" for example try to instill there moral beliefs on others. God put us on this earth to make our own destinies, decisions and morals. Whoever tries to change that IS taking it too seriously.

I agree with this.

Quote: In nomini deus. Jesus Akbar

Peace be upon you. Nice to have another Christian around.