Political Crossfire Forums

[fiction416]

Quote: Torture may be worse now in Iraq than under former leader Saddam Hussein, the UN's chief anti-torture expert says.

Manfred Nowak said the situation in Iraq was "out of control", with abuses being committed by security forces, militia groups and anti-US insurgents.

Bodies found in the Baghdad morgue "often bear signs of severe torture", said the human rights office of the UN Assistance Mission in Iraq in a report.

The wounds confirmed reports given by refugees from Iraq, Mr Nowak said.

He told journalists at a briefing in Geneva that he had yet to visit Iraq, but he was able to base his information on autopsies and interviews with Iraqis in neighbouring Jordan.

"What most people tell you is that the situation as far as torture is concerned now in Iraq is totally out of hand," the Austrian law professor said.

"The situation is so bad many people say it is worse than it has been in the times of Saddam Hussein," he added.

Brutal methods

The UN report says detainees' bodies often show signs of beating using electrical cables, wounds in heads and genitals, broken legs and hands, electric and cigarette burns.

Bodies found at the Baghdad mortuary "often bear signs of severe torture including acid-induced injuries and burns caused by chemical substances".

Many bodies have missing skin, broken bones, back, hands and legs, missing eyes, missing teeth and wounds caused by power drills or nails, the UN report says.

Victims come from prisons run by US-led multinational forces as well as by the ministries of interior and defence and private militias, the report said.

Source







-----



Quote:
Soledad O'Brien: "You heard what the president had to say, which is, essentially, the good news that out there is not getting reported. Have you found that to be true on the ground where you have been?

"MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Oh, look, really, nothing could be further from the truth.

"I mean, the fact that, when President Bush talks about those living on the ground, and he cites General Casey and Ambassador Khalilzad, I mean, these are men who could not be more divorced from the Iraqi reality. They very much live within a bubble, be it physically within the Green Zone or be it within the bubble of heavy U.S. protection.

"And this is true even for their advisers and for the commanders and the American soldiers. I mean, they never take the uniform off. The Iraqi people can never talk to them unless through a filter.

"It's very different than living amongst them. And when people say not enough good news stories are being told, you ask an Iraqi family what it is that they're experiencing when their street -- the bodies of their neighbors are showing up on their streets. Their kids can't go to school, for fear of crossing sectarian lines. And the kidnapping and killings are just going on around them."

Link to transcript


Wow, more torture from the USA - To be fair, I'm sure we have no comparable, or accurate numbers from the Saddam period - But still, something like this speaks for itself.

What was the mantra behind this war again; 'Bring Democracy to the Middle East' or some gibberish, that Bush stands behind...?

Anyhoo, is everyone having fun with the war in Iraq, yet ?

[DSwain]

Did I miss the part of the article that stipulates how many people are being tortured by the US? By US personnel? Could you highlight that bit?

[mendosan]

DSwain wrote: Did I miss the part of the article that stipulates how many people are being tortured by the US? By US personnel? Could you highlight that bit?

I also missed that part.

[fiction416]

Quote: The extent of the torture and abuse that British residents held at Guantanamo Bay claim to have suffered is revealed for the first time in a series of recently declassified interviews between the detainees and their human rights lawyers.

Documents submitted to the American courts allege that one of the detainees was strapped to a chair by prison guards and beaten and tortured to the point of death.

Other British suspects are still being held in solitary confinement, four years after their capture, where they are subjected to extreme temperatures, sleep deprivation and the confiscation of the most basic necessities, including lavatory paper and blankets.

None has been charged with any crime.

Some of the most serious allegations of torture concern the treatment of Shaker Aamer, a Saudi national who until his arrest four years ago had been living in London with his wife and four children.

In June this year, Mr Aamer claims he was badly beaten and tortured because he failed to provide a retina scan and fingerprints to the camp authorities. He says he was strapped to a chair, fully restrained at the head, arms and legs.

The habeas corpus motion filed in the court of the District of Columbia states: "The MPs [military police] inflicted so much pain, Mr Aamer said he thought he was going to die. The MPs pressed on pressure points all over his body: his temples, just under his jawline, in the hollow beneath his ears. They choked him. They bent his nose so hard he thought it would break.

"They pinched his thighs and feet constantly. They gouged his eyes. They held his eyes open and shined a Maglite [torch] in them for minutes on end, generating intense heat. They bent his fingers until he screamed. When he screamed, they cut off his airway, then put a mask on him so he could not cry out."


Source




Yes, no numbers from the original link, but regaurdless, the USA has taken a step forward when it comes to disregarding the rights of people who they deem a threat, with impunity....

The point of the original post, was that things are worse now, under the USA's watchful eye, than they were when Saddam was in power.

[DSwain]

fiction416 wrote: Quote: The extent of the torture and abuse that British residents held at Guantanamo Bay claim to have suffered is revealed for the first time in a series of recently declassified interviews between the detainees and their human rights lawyers.

Documents submitted to the American courts allege that one of the detainees was strapped to a chair by prison guards and beaten and tortured to the point of death.

Other British suspects are still being held in solitary confinement, four years after their capture, where they are subjected to extreme temperatures, sleep deprivation and the confiscation of the most basic necessities, including lavatory paper and blankets.

None has been charged with any crime.

Some of the most serious allegations of torture concern the treatment of Shaker Aamer, a Saudi national who until his arrest four years ago had been living in London with his wife and four children.

In June this year, Mr Aamer claims he was badly beaten and tortured because he failed to provide a retina scan and fingerprints to the camp authorities. He says he was strapped to a chair, fully restrained at the head, arms and legs.

The habeas corpus motion filed in the court of the District of Columbia states: "The MPs [military police] inflicted so much pain, Mr Aamer said he thought he was going to die. The MPs pressed on pressure points all over his body: his temples, just under his jawline, in the hollow beneath his ears. They choked him. They bent his nose so hard he thought it would break.

"They pinched his thighs and feet constantly. They gouged his eyes. They held his eyes open and shined a Maglite [torch] in them for minutes on end, generating intense heat. They bent his fingers until he screamed. When he screamed, they cut off his airway, then put a mask on him so he could not cry out."


Source




Yes, no numbers from the original link, but regaurdless, the USA has taken a step forward when it comes to disregarding the rights of people who they deem a threat, with impunity....

The point of the original post, was that things are worse now, under the USA's watchful eye, than they were when Saddam was in power.

In that case try to avoid rhetoric such as:

Wow, more torture from the USA

[lilwolf]

fiction416 wrote: Quote: The extent of the torture and abuse that British residents held at Guantanamo Bay claim to have suffered is revealed for the first time in a series of recently declassified interviews between the detainees and their human rights lawyers.

Documents submitted to the American courts allege that one of the detainees was strapped to a chair by prison guards and beaten and tortured to the point of death.

Other British suspects are still being held in solitary confinement, four years after their capture, where they are subjected to extreme temperatures, sleep deprivation and the confiscation of the most basic necessities, including lavatory paper and blankets.

None has been charged with any crime.

Some of the most serious allegations of torture concern the treatment of Shaker Aamer, a Saudi national who until his arrest four years ago had been living in London with his wife and four children.

In June this year, Mr Aamer claims he was badly beaten and tortured because he failed to provide a retina scan and fingerprints to the camp authorities. He says he was strapped to a chair, fully restrained at the head, arms and legs.

The habeas corpus motion filed in the court of the District of Columbia states: "The MPs [military police] inflicted so much pain, Mr Aamer said he thought he was going to die. The MPs pressed on pressure points all over his body: his temples, just under his jawline, in the hollow beneath his ears. They choked him. They bent his nose so hard he thought it would break.

"They pinched his thighs and feet constantly. They gouged his eyes. They held his eyes open and shined a Maglite [torch] in them for minutes on end, generating intense heat. They bent his fingers until he screamed. When he screamed, they cut off his airway, then put a mask on him so he could not cry out."


Source




Yes, no numbers from the original link, but regaurdless, the USA has taken a step forward when it comes to disregarding the rights of people who they deem a threat, with impunity....

The point of the original post, was that things are worse now, under the USA's watchful eye, than they were when Saddam was in power.



How can we be in control of the prisons in Iraq. the iraqi government took over the prisons a little while back and they are not under the watchful eye of the US. Abu grahib has literally NO american forces at the prison in any way shape of form. I would also vebture to say that the numbers are far less than the BBc and all of the other outfits out there that want to coddle terrorists are exploiting or attempting to exploit.
What is this referring to about the US stepping forward with the disredard of people and their rights?
I see nothing that can even begin to link the US to what the iraqis do.

They are known terrorists and they in my opinion have no rights...in any american court room or any part of our system. That is another reason whty the iraqis control the prisons. If the bad guys at Abu grahib thought it is so bad for them there wait till they get to go back to Iraq and to a real prison ran by their own people.
Then instead of bad americans it'll be a bunch of Kitty Cats that cry help us america.

[fiction416]

lilwolf wrote:
I see nothing that can even begin to link the US to what the iraqis do.






:roll:

[MoscowMatt]

fiction416 wrote: Wow, more torture from the USA - To be fair, I'm sure we have no comparable, or accurate numbers from the Saddam period - But still, something like this speaks for itself.


I think you will find most of the victims were tortured by the sectarian militias. Still, lets blame the US shall we it's more fun! :roll:

[melchizedek22]

Iraq was stable,under Saddam,now its a terrorist circus,we are wasting
our time money and lives,in Iraq,it will never become a democracy for ling,no matter how much we spend!

[lilwolf]

melchizedek22 wrote: Iraq was stable,under Saddam,now its a terrorist circus,we are wasting
our time money and lives,in Iraq,it will never become a democracy for ling,no matter how much we spend!


Skeptics said the same things about europe and Japan after WW2 as well.

It was also said about several other nations in Eastern Europe after the cold war was ended.

It was said about this nation after the war of Independence.

Proble here is that it will work but for those who are of the instant gratification crowd, then no it will not in appearance anyway. This is not going to happen over night folks. It will take years to get it right but it will happen, when the people figure out what it is to be free and embrace it.

[fiction416]

lilwolf wrote:
They are known terrorists and they in my opinion have no rights...in any american court room or any part of our system. That is another reason whty the iraqis control the prisons. If the bad guys at Abu grahib thought it is so bad for them there wait till they get to go back to Iraq and to a real prison ran by their own people.



LOL

[lovebush]

fiction416 wrote: Quote: Torture may be worse now in Iraq than under former leader Saddam Hussein, the UN's chief anti-torture expert says.

Manfred Nowak said the situation in Iraq was "out of control", with abuses being committed by security forces, militia groups and anti-US insurgents.

Bodies found in the Baghdad morgue "often bear signs of severe torture", said the human rights office of the UN Assistance Mission in Iraq in a report.

The wounds confirmed reports given by refugees from Iraq, Mr Nowak said.

He told journalists at a briefing in Geneva that he had yet to visit Iraq, but he was able to base his information on autopsies and interviews with Iraqis in neighbouring Jordan.

"What most people tell you is that the situation as far as torture is concerned now in Iraq is totally out of hand," the Austrian law professor said.

"The situation is so bad many people say it is worse than it has been in the times of Saddam Hussein," he added.

Brutal methods

The UN report says detainees' bodies often show signs of beating using electrical cables, wounds in heads and genitals, broken legs and hands, electric and cigarette burns.

Bodies found at the Baghdad mortuary "often bear signs of severe torture including acid-induced injuries and burns caused by chemical substances".

Many bodies have missing skin, broken bones, back, hands and legs, missing eyes, missing teeth and wounds caused by power drills or nails, the UN report says.

Victims come from prisons run by US-led multinational forces as well as by the ministries of interior and defence and private militias, the report said.

Source







-----



Quote:
Soledad O'Brien: "You heard what the president had to say, which is, essentially, the good news that out there is not getting reported. Have you found that to be true on the ground where you have been?

"MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Oh, look, really, nothing could be further from the truth.

"I mean, the fact that, when President Bush talks about those living on the ground, and he cites General Casey and Ambassador Khalilzad, I mean, these are men who could not be more divorced from the Iraqi reality. They very much live within a bubble, be it physically within the Green Zone or be it within the bubble of heavy U.S. protection.

"And this is true even for their advisers and for the commanders and the American soldiers. I mean, they never take the uniform off. The Iraqi people can never talk to them unless through a filter.

"It's very different than living amongst them. And when people say not enough good news stories are being told, you ask an Iraqi family what it is that they're experiencing when their street -- the bodies of their neighbors are showing up on their streets. Their kids can't go to school, for fear of crossing sectarian lines. And the kidnapping and killings are just going on around them."

Link to transcript


Wow, more torture from the USA - To be fair, I'm sure we have no comparable, or accurate numbers from the Saddam period - But still, something like this speaks for itself.

What was the mantra behind this war again; 'Bring Democracy to the Middle East' or some gibberish, that Bush stands behind...?

Anyhoo, is everyone having fun with the war in Iraq, yet ?



ironic that your second article refers to Casey as being in a "bubble" in the green zone. yet your first article sights Mr Nowak as its source who isnt even in the country! I guess your standards are different so long as your reading something you want to believe. :wink:

[lilwolf]

lovebush wrote: fiction416 wrote: Quote: Torture may be worse now in Iraq than under former leader Saddam Hussein, the UN's chief anti-torture expert says.

Manfred Nowak said the situation in Iraq was "out of control", with abuses being committed by security forces, militia groups and anti-US insurgents.

Bodies found in the Baghdad morgue "often bear signs of severe torture", said the human rights office of the UN Assistance Mission in Iraq in a report.

The wounds confirmed reports given by refugees from Iraq, Mr Nowak said.

He told journalists at a briefing in Geneva that he had yet to visit Iraq, but he was able to base his information on autopsies and interviews with Iraqis in neighbouring Jordan.

"What most people tell you is that the situation as far as torture is concerned now in Iraq is totally out of hand," the Austrian law professor said.

"The situation is so bad many people say it is worse than it has been in the times of Saddam Hussein," he added.

Brutal methods

The UN report says detainees' bodies often show signs of beating using electrical cables, wounds in heads and genitals, broken legs and hands, electric and cigarette burns.

Bodies found at the Baghdad mortuary "often bear signs of severe torture including acid-induced injuries and burns caused by chemical substances".

Many bodies have missing skin, broken bones, back, hands and legs, missing eyes, missing teeth and wounds caused by power drills or nails, the UN report says.

Victims come from prisons run by US-led multinational forces as well as by the ministries of interior and defence and private militias, the report said.

Source







-----



Quote:
Soledad O'Brien: "You heard what the president had to say, which is, essentially, the good news that out there is not getting reported. Have you found that to be true on the ground where you have been?

"MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Oh, look, really, nothing could be further from the truth.

"I mean, the fact that, when President Bush talks about those living on the ground, and he cites General Casey and Ambassador Khalilzad, I mean, these are men who could not be more divorced from the Iraqi reality. They very much live within a bubble, be it physically within the Green Zone or be it within the bubble of heavy U.S. protection.

"And this is true even for their advisers and for the commanders and the American soldiers. I mean, they never take the uniform off. The Iraqi people can never talk to them unless through a filter.

"It's very different than living amongst them. And when people say not enough good news stories are being told, you ask an Iraqi family what it is that they're experiencing when their street -- the bodies of their neighbors are showing up on their streets. Their kids can't go to school, for fear of crossing sectarian lines. And the kidnapping and killings are just going on around them."

Link to transcript


Wow, more torture from the USA - To be fair, I'm sure we have no comparable, or accurate numbers from the Saddam period - But still, something like this speaks for itself.

What was the mantra behind this war again; 'Bring Democracy to the Middle East' or some gibberish, that Bush stands behind...?

Anyhoo, is everyone having fun with the war in Iraq, yet ?



ironic that your second article refers to Casey as being in a "bubble" in the green zone. yet your first article sights Mr Nowak as its source who isnt even in the country! I guess your standards are different so long as your reading something you want to believe. :wink:


It is in appearance that he does that a great deal. :lol: