Political Crossfire Forums

toddytodd · Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 2736

Gilbert1908 wrote: toddytodd wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: toddytodd wrote: ikari wrote: toddytodd wrote: Just because God made people doesn't mean they all have common sense :)

So then the story is more about God's willingness to reward stupidity than it is using your God given talents to not get yourself into such a stupid situation in the first place?

God made or not, God given talent or not - people do stupid things. Seems that the story was a typical story to uplift believers' spirits.

The guy dies due to lack of trust in God, remind me how that uplifts me as opposed to making a point?

You think a Christian reads that story and says to himself,"what a fool that guy was for NOT trusting God's word, not like me I'm better than that guy." When in fact the Christian says to himself "How many times have I been JUST LIKE the guy at the end of the rope? I need to make sure I try harder to live closer to the Words of Christ."

A story like this is not designed to make us feel superior to the climber, WE ARE THE CLIMBER!!!!!

Perhaps you should think about the story more than just read the story...?
Maybe it is written in similarity to many bible stories - use the fear of 'what if I don't listen to this story and understand its warning...?' type of message?
"The glass is half full, the glass is half empty."...
And feeling 'superior' has nothing to do with it. It's a shame you read it that way. I suppose it's understanding is a reflection of one's personality and/or perception, which is not a good or bad thing - just a thing.

So then which is it as you see it, FEAR as you represent here or COMFORT as you represented in the first post?

And of couse we read into it what we SEE that was the point of my response to you to begin with!!!

You said its point was to comfort, I said the point was to remind us of OURSELVES that we are ALL the climber more willing to trust our own intellect or our self centered nature than ANYTHING ELSE.

It depends on who reads it: fear for the non-believer, comfort for the believer. It is all open to interpretation and frame of reference. That's the great thing about God given creativity. :wink:

connermt · Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 1526 Location: CMH OHIO

toddytodd wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: toddytodd wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: toddytodd wrote: ikari wrote: toddytodd wrote: Just because God made people doesn't mean they all have common sense :)

So then the story is more about God's willingness to reward stupidity than it is using your God given talents to not get yourself into such a stupid situation in the first place?

God made or not, God given talent or not - people do stupid things. Seems that the story was a typical story to uplift believers' spirits.

The guy dies due to lack of trust in God, remind me how that uplifts me as opposed to making a point?

You think a Christian reads that story and says to himself,"what a fool that guy was for NOT trusting God's word, not like me I'm better than that guy." When in fact the Christian says to himself "How many times have I been JUST LIKE the guy at the end of the rope? I need to make sure I try harder to live closer to the Words of Christ."

A story like this is not designed to make us feel superior to the climber, WE ARE THE CLIMBER!!!!!

Perhaps you should think about the story more than just read the story...?
Maybe it is written in similarity to many bible stories - use the fear of 'what if I don't listen to this story and understand its warning...?' type of message?
"The glass is half full, the glass is half empty."...
And feeling 'superior' has nothing to do with it. It's a shame you read it that way. I suppose it's understanding is a reflection of one's personality and/or perception, which is not a good or bad thing - just a thing.

So then which is it as you see it, FEAR as you represent here or COMFORT as you represented in the first post?

And of couse we read into it what we SEE that was the point of my response to you to begin with!!!

You said its point was to comfort, I said the point was to remind us of OURSELVES that we are ALL the climber more willing to trust our own intellect or our self centered nature than ANYTHING ELSE.

It depends on who reads it: fear for the non-believer, comfort for the believer. It is all open to interpretation and frame of reference. That's the great thing about God given creativity. :wink:

God given creativity exists in anything human - from the most acient drawings to religion to sci-fi movies to literature.

Gilbert1908 · Joined: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 5147 Location: Boston, MA

toddytodd wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: toddytodd wrote:

Perhaps you should think about the story more than just read the story...?
Maybe it is written in similarity to many bible stories - use the fear of 'what if I don't listen to this story and understand its warning...?' type of message?
"The glass is half full, the glass is half empty."...
And feeling 'superior' has nothing to do with it. It's a shame you read it that way. I suppose it's understanding is a reflection of one's personality and/or perception, which is not a good or bad thing - just a thing.

So then which is it as you see it, FEAR as you represent here or COMFORT as you represented in the first post?

And of couse we read into it what we SEE that was the point of my response to you to begin with!!!

You said its point was to comfort, I said the point was to remind us of OURSELVES that we are ALL the climber more willing to trust our own intellect or our self centered nature than ANYTHING ELSE.

It depends on who reads it: fear for the non-believer, comfort for the believer. It is all open to interpretation and frame of reference. That's the great thing about God given creativity. :wink:

Why would a nonbeliever have any fear, it seems most of the nonbelievers here found it a silly meaningless story or a funny story but I don't see much fear represented.

But since you seemed to offer two options I asked what YOU saw and offered what I believed the message was, which was neither fear nor comfort but the self recognition of consistent failure (sin if you will) which is followed by the determination to be better.

The story would have no significant meaning at all if we did not see ourselves in the climber, in the inclination to view only ourselves as ultimate decision maker and authority.

toddytodd · Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 2736

Gilbert1908 wrote: toddytodd wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: toddytodd wrote:

Perhaps you should think about the story more than just read the story...?
Maybe it is written in similarity to many bible stories - use the fear of 'what if I don't listen to this story and understand its warning...?' type of message?
"The glass is half full, the glass is half empty."...
And feeling 'superior' has nothing to do with it. It's a shame you read it that way. I suppose it's understanding is a reflection of one's personality and/or perception, which is not a good or bad thing - just a thing.

So then which is it as you see it, FEAR as you represent here or COMFORT as you represented in the first post?

And of couse we read into it what we SEE that was the point of my response to you to begin with!!!

You said its point was to comfort, I said the point was to remind us of OURSELVES that we are ALL the climber more willing to trust our own intellect or our self centered nature than ANYTHING ELSE.

It depends on who reads it: fear for the non-believer, comfort for the believer. It is all open to interpretation and frame of reference. That's the great thing about God given creativity. :wink:

Why would a nonbeliever have any fear, it seems most of the nonbelievers here found it a silly meaningless story or a funny story but I don't see much fear represented.

But since you seemed to offer two options I asked what YOU saw and offered what I believed the message was, which was neither fear nor comfort but the self recognition of consistent failure (sin if you will) which is followed by the determination to be better.

The story would have no significant meaning at all if we did not see ourselves in the climber, in the inclination to view only ourselves as ultimate decision maker and authority.
Quote: Why would a nonbeliever have any fear, it seems most of the nonbelievers here found it a silly meaningless story or a funny story but I don't see much fear represented. Why do people do or think the things they do to begin with? I can't answer that other than just because you are a non-believer in the ways of Christianity, doesn't mean you are a non-believer in God, right?
I don't put any meaning in such writings for myself personally, as they are an irritant to me - a waste of time for me to dwell on.
Quote: The story would have no significant meaning at all if we did not see ourselves in the climber, in the inclination to view only ourselves as ultimate decision maker and authority. Again, frame of reference. I am not sure you can honestly say and believe that, as there are a couple of different ways it can be interpreted, but whatever....

ikari · Joined: 24 Sep 2004 Posts: 7090 Location: Colorado

Gilbert1908 wrote: Why would a nonbeliever have any fear, it seems most of the nonbelievers here found it a silly meaningless story or a funny story but I don't see much fear represented.

But since you seemed to offer two options I asked what YOU saw and offered what I believed the message was, which was neither fear nor comfort but the self recognition of consistent failure (sin if you will) which is followed by the determination to be better.

The story would have no significant meaning at all if we did not see ourselves in the climber, in the inclination to view only ourselves as ultimate decision maker and authority.

I would agree with this. There isn't fear transmitted by the story to the non-believer. They are merely going to see a story which disobeys the laws of physics and make fun of some dude for trying to climb a mountain, alone, and at night. You can say that the climber did not believe enough in god's power and thus through fear of death clung to the rope while salvation was a mere 10 feet away. But for someone whom doesn't believe in god reading the story, I do not think they will gain any sense of fear.

toddytodd · Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 2736

ikari wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: Why would a nonbeliever have any fear, it seems most of the nonbelievers here found it a silly meaningless story or a funny story but I don't see much fear represented.

But since you seemed to offer two options I asked what YOU saw and offered what I believed the message was, which was neither fear nor comfort but the self recognition of consistent failure (sin if you will) which is followed by the determination to be better.

The story would have no significant meaning at all if we did not see ourselves in the climber, in the inclination to view only ourselves as ultimate decision maker and authority.

I would agree with this. There isn't fear transmitted by the story to the non-believer. They are merely going to see a story which disobeys the laws of physics and make fun of some dude for trying to climb a mountain, alone, and at night. You can say that the climber did not believe enough in god's power and thus through fear of death clung to the rope while salvation was a mere 10 feet away. But for someone whom doesn't believe in god reading the story, I do not think they will gain any sense of fear.

Perfect example of how people see the same thing differently :tu:
I would be interested in knowing what the original writer was going for :think:

connermt · Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 1526 Location: CMH OHIO

Gilbert1908 wrote: toddytodd wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: toddytodd wrote:

Perhaps you should think about the story more than just read the story...?
Maybe it is written in similarity to many bible stories - use the fear of 'what if I don't listen to this story and understand its warning...?' type of message?
"The glass is half full, the glass is half empty."...
And feeling 'superior' has nothing to do with it. It's a shame you read it that way. I suppose it's understanding is a reflection of one's personality and/or perception, which is not a good or bad thing - just a thing.

So then which is it as you see it, FEAR as you represent here or COMFORT as you represented in the first post?

And of couse we read into it what we SEE that was the point of my response to you to begin with!!!

You said its point was to comfort, I said the point was to remind us of OURSELVES that we are ALL the climber more willing to trust our own intellect or our self centered nature than ANYTHING ELSE.

It depends on who reads it: fear for the non-believer, comfort for the believer. It is all open to interpretation and frame of reference. That's the great thing about God given creativity. :wink:

Why would a nonbeliever have any fear, it seems most of the nonbelievers here found it a silly meaningless story or a funny story but I don't see much fear represented.

Why do people need to fear god to begin with?

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Quote: Leviticus 25:17 'So you shall not wrong one another, but you shall fear your God; for I am the LORD your God. 18 'You shall thus observe My statutes and keep My judgments, so as to carry them out, that you may live securely on the land.

connermt · Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 1526 Location: CMH OHIO

cap'n queasy wrote: Quote: Leviticus 25:17 'So you shall not wrong one another, but you shall fear your God; for I am the LORD your God. 18 'You shall thus observe My statutes and keep My judgments, so as to carry them out, that you may live securely on the land.
Isn't that OT? I thought most christians didn't think the OT was necessary or legitimate in today's world to todays christian?