Political Crossfire Forums

[ubikk]

Wages and salaries now make up the lowest share of the nation’s gross domestic product since the government began recording the data in 1947, while corporate profits have climbed to their highest share since the 1960’s.


Link to New York Times Article

Discuss the following:

1. Why do you think this is?
2. What does it mean for working families?
3. What it means for economic growth long-term?
4. Does it change your opinion about raising the minimum wage?
5. Does it change your expectations about what we should expect from people who are trying to raise themselves out of poverty starting with wage-earning jobs?

[rye]

ubikk wrote: Wages and salaries now make up the lowest share of the nation’s gross domestic product since the government began recording the data in 1947, while corporate profits have climbed to their highest share since the 1960’s.


Link to New York Times Article

Discuss the following:

1. Why do you think this is?
2. What does it mean for working families?
3. What it means for economic growth long-term?
4. Does it change your opinion about raising the minimum wage?
5. Does it change your expectations about what we should expect from people who are trying to raise themselves out of poverty starting with wage-earning jobs?

1. Offshoring of labor and profits, lower taxes for the rich and corporations, massive increases in productivity, expansion of markets
2. They better get used to a much lower standard of living...until they hit the level where China and India are....or lower.
3. Economic growth will continue although only the top 20% or so will benefit. The top 10% will greatly benefit and the top 1% will be even wealthier...er...er.....er....and more powerfullllllllll....er. Everyone else is screwed.
4. No. The current minimum is sick.
5. No. Their chance ended around 1973 and especially by 1994. The exceptional individual still has a chance.

[ubikk]

I guess the next question is: What do we do about it?

[MplsBison]

ubikk wrote:
4. Does it change your opinion about raising the minimum wage?
5. Does it change your expectations about what we should expect from people who are trying to raise themselves out of poverty starting with wage-earning jobs?

I think we all understand by now that you want to raise the minimum wage and you have some delusion that doing so would do something positive.

Why not just start a thread entitled "why I think the minimum wage should be raised"?

[ubikk]

tman_ndsu08 wrote:

Why not just start a thread entitled "why I think the minimum wage should be raised"?

Because I'm more interested in discussing the state of all wages and the impacts on people and the economy, the minimum wage is only part of it.

You aren't, I take it?

[Limey Boosk]

What is the minimum wage in America?

In Britain it will be £5.35 in October.

[00timh]

Just another tricky sticky attempt by the left to scare people into thinking there is doom and gloom headed our way. Somehow people are buying more cars, homes all kinds of luxury itmes, flying to vacations, buying more in general. How do they pull all of this off if they are making less than ever??? :think:

You guys with your NY slimes articles can twist numbers till you are blue in the face but with all economic indicators, not to mention common sense if you just look around at what is going on in the country tells us that we are living better than we ever have.

[rye]

00timh wrote: Just another tricky sticky attempt by the left to scare people into thinking there is doom and gloom headed our way. Somehow people are buying more cars, homes all kinds of luxury itmes, flying to vacations, buying more in general. How do they pull all of this off if they are making less than ever??? :think:

You guys with your NY slimes articles can twist numbers till you are blue in the face but with all economic indicators, not to mention common sense if you just look around at what is going on in the country tells us that we are living better than we ever have.

You're trying to be funny, right? If not, you really need to provide some support for your assertions. If people are buying more cars and homes, provide a link. Everything I've read, especially with regard to the housing market, indicates the opposite.

"Just another tricky sticky attempt by the left to scare people into thinking there is doom and gloom headed our way. "

Is data "tricky" to you?

[MplsBison]

As far as cars go, I think the US has done a damn nice job of adjusting to an explosive price for gas.

If gas were still 2 dollars/gallon, even, I don't think much would've changed from when people were happy to buy the biggest SUVs they could afford.

Now, however, we're simply switching to hybrids and eventually electric cars.


People are still happy to buy new cars. They're happy to have the latest and greatest. They just want to make sure they aren't going to have to put something in the tank that could jump 200% in price in 5 years.


Almost the same thing for houses.

People are happy to buy new houses, when the price is reasonable.

The "flippers" have been going at it for so long that people are starting to balk at becoming the next in the chain of buyers. The prices are just too high. The last people in the buying chains are just going to have to bite the bullet and live there or sell for cheaper.



Bottom line, the US is always happy to buy new but they still want a reasonable deal.

[Lumina]

00timh wrote: Just another tricky sticky attempt by the left to scare people into thinking there is doom and gloom headed our way. Somehow people are buying more cars, homes all kinds of luxury itmes, flying to vacations, buying more in general. How do they pull all of this off if they are making less than ever??? :think:

You guys with your NY slimes articles can twist numbers till you are blue in the face but with all economic indicators, not to mention common sense if you just look around at what is going on in the country tells us that we are living better than we ever have.

Yes, and the unemployment rate announced yesterday, is 4%.

[rye]

Lumina wrote: 00timh wrote: Just another tricky sticky attempt by the left to scare people into thinking there is doom and gloom headed our way. Somehow people are buying more cars, homes all kinds of luxury itmes, flying to vacations, buying more in general. How do they pull all of this off if they are making less than ever??? :think:

You guys with your NY slimes articles can twist numbers till you are blue in the face but with all economic indicators, not to mention common sense if you just look around at what is going on in the country tells us that we are living better than we ever have.

Yes, and the unemployment rate announced yesterday, is 4%.

Define "unemployment rate."

[GTTofAK]

Simple, wages rise with inflation but production rises faster than inflation.

[GTTofAK]

rye wrote: Lumina wrote: 00timh wrote: Just another tricky sticky attempt by the left to scare people into thinking there is doom and gloom headed our way. Somehow people are buying more cars, homes all kinds of luxury itmes, flying to vacations, buying more in general. How do they pull all of this off if they are making less than ever??? :think:

You guys with your NY slimes articles can twist numbers till you are blue in the face but with all economic indicators, not to mention common sense if you just look around at what is going on in the country tells us that we are living better than we ever have.

Yes, and the unemployment rate announced yesterday, is 4%.

Define "unemployment rate."

The number of people in the workforce without a job who have actively sought a job in the last two weeks divided by the total workforce X 100. Its not that complicated.

[MplsBison]

What does it mean to have "actively sought" a job?

[The Grandmaster]

My Question is this. Does anyone think this is truly a good thing? I know many people are highly supportive of Corporations, and tend to believe any misfortune visited upon a normal working person is their own fault, but is it really a good thing, overall, when large corporations, with no ability to be happy or miserable, continue to gain profit at the expense of regular people with needs wants and families?

Don’t get me wrong. When they build a new business, restaurant, or building here in Lafayette, I say “Build…keeeeep building by god keep building!” I want to see prosperity in business as well. More for me to buy. More jobs. But I will never believe it is more important than the entire reason all of this exists, for the populous to have what it needs, for the rest of us to be happy.

[Limey Boosk]

Capitalism with morals is an okay thing. That however has left America. Its own car giants are all bogging off to Mexico.

Talk about loyalty to the American worker who bust a gut building up the firm in the first place.

The fat cats should be squarely kicked in the pods for treason.

[ubikk]

Limey Boosk wrote: What is the minimum wage in America?

In Britain it will be £5.35 in October.

Federal is $5.15, but a few states have higher ones. Your wage at the current exchange rate is $9.87/hour.

I wonder why your economy isn't being destroyed? and you don't have rampant inflation? Why does the pound keep getting stronger? High minimum wages are supposed to be bad for the economy.... :think:

[ubikk]

tman_ndsu08 wrote: What does it mean to have "actively sought" a job?

Mostly, it means you went to a local government unemployment office. They also occasionally conduct a modest phone poll and try to combine the data.

[rye]

GTTofAK wrote: rye wrote: Lumina wrote: 00timh wrote: Just another tricky sticky attempt by the left to scare people into thinking there is doom and gloom headed our way. Somehow people are buying more cars, homes all kinds of luxury itmes, flying to vacations, buying more in general. How do they pull all of this off if they are making less than ever??? :think:

You guys with your NY slimes articles can twist numbers till you are blue in the face but with all economic indicators, not to mention common sense if you just look around at what is going on in the country tells us that we are living better than we ever have.

Yes, and the unemployment rate announced yesterday, is 4%.

Define "unemployment rate."

The number of people in the workforce without a job who have actively sought a job in the last two weeks divided by the total workforce X 100. Its not that complicated.

Oh, so it's not all of the people who are out of work. I suppose if you were to take the number of people who have lost all hope and are no longer looking the number would be quite a bit higher. Additionally, a huge part of American society is underemployed, meaning that they've taken jobs well below their skill level. Many of the so called "employed" can't find full time work. The number is not a real assessment of the labor force and its standing. 4% is not at all useful for understanding what is going on.

[ubikk]

The imporatant question is: How do we reverse this trend? There is clearly plenty of money, people just aren't being rewarded for their productivity gains. I think we need to do one of the following:

1. Figure some way to get wages up to some higher percentage of GDP

or

2. Find away for people throughout the wage spectrum to get more out of the profit half of the equation. Perhaps by tax incentives to offer profit sharing or employer matches for investments to generate capital gains for the workers.