Political Crossfire Forums

[MoscowMatt]

....as the all like to make out they are then why don't they consider those that commit terrorist acts etc to be insulting their religion like they do for example when the Pope quotes someone who says they are violent and evil?!

What I'm saying in a nutshell is that if saying they are violent and evil is an insult then why is showing they are violent and evil not considered the same. i.e where are they all when it comes to protesting about the likes of Al'Qaeda?!!

Explanations welcome!!

[jimmyz]

MoscowMatt wrote: ....as the all like to make out they are then why don't they consider those that commit terrorist acts etc to be insulting their religion like they do for example when the Pope quotes someone who says they are violent and evil?!

What I'm saying in a nutshell is that if saying they are violent and evil is an insult then why is showing they are violent and evil not considered the same. i.e where are they all when it comes to protesting about the likes of Al'Qaeda?!!

Explanations welcome!!

I was thinking the same thing.Please see the article in my "Sometimes the truth hurts" thread for an article that addresses same.

[Plato & Socrates]

MoscowMatt wrote: ....as the all like to make out they are then why don't they consider those that commit terrorist acts etc to be insulting their religion like they do for example when the Pope quotes someone who says they are violent and evil?!

What I'm saying in a nutshell is that if saying they are violent and evil is an insult then why is showing they are violent and evil not considered the same. i.e where are they all when it comes to protesting about the likes of Al'Qaeda?!!

Explanations welcome!!

Your asking for too much Moscowmatt. How many times did we in the UK, continually ask for all Catholics to condemn I.R.A violence? Muslims are from all reaches of this Globe, as are there traditions. Also Sunni's and Shia's are different branches of the same religion. Sometimes the mistake of wrapping all Islam together in the same grouping is wrong. Sometimes we ask the equivalent of asking the Pope, to appologise for Ulster unionist Protestant terrorism. Who on the middle east forum who's reasonable or moderate, holds all Jews accountable for what the state of Israel does? Do I?

The Muslims over-reaction to the Popes speech, is just that a over-reaction. But can you step back a minute, and look at our reaction, to there over-reaction? They are a group of people under siege at the moment. There whole culture, achievements and standing in the west are being questioned. I see on this very forum, the character assassination of Islam, Muslims and there achievements belittled, in comparison to the perceived greatness of the western achievements.

Two paragraphs cannot do your thread justice. But my main premise is slight double standards. If we got greater condemnation from the Muslim community, I guarantee we would ask for more. Most likely in the form of greater help from those communities, in apprehending these terrorists. All these demands we are asking of the Muslim community, and what do we do to help? Do we even question our policies in there lands or regions? Or the supporting of repressive dictatorships? Our behaviour will not change. You tell me the last time a Muslim government interfered or tried to interfere with the internal politics of a western government. Herein lies the beginning of the problem.

[MoscowMatt]

Plato & Socrates wrote: MoscowMatt wrote: ....as the all like to make out they are then why don't they consider those that commit terrorist acts etc to be insulting their religion like they do for example when the Pope quotes someone who says they are violent and evil?!

What I'm saying in a nutshell is that if saying they are violent and evil is an insult then why is showing they are violent and evil not considered the same. i.e where are they all when it comes to protesting about the likes of Al'Qaeda?!!

Explanations welcome!!

Your asking for too much Moscowmatt. How many times did we in the UK, continually ask for all Catholics to condemn I.R.A violence? Muslims are from all reaches of this Globe, as are there traditions. Also Sunni's and Shia's are different branches of the same religion. Sometimes the mistake of wrapping all Islam together in the same grouping is wrong. Sometimes we ask the equivalent of asking the Pope, to appologise for Ulster unionist Protestant terrorism. Who on the middle east forum who's reasonable or moderate, holds all Jews accountable for what the state of Israel does? Do I?

The Muslims over-reaction to the Popes speech, is just that a over-reaction. But can you step back a minute, and look at our reaction, to there over-reaction? They are a group of people under siege at the moment. There whole culture, achievements and standing in the west are being questioned. I see on this very forum, the character assassination of Islam, Muslims and there achievements belittled, in comparison to the perceived greatness of the western achievements.

Two paragraphs cannot do your thread justice. But my main premise is slight double standards. If we got greater condemnation from the Muslim community, I guarantee we would ask for more. Most likely in the form of greater help from those communities, in apprehending these terrorists. All these demands we are asking of the Muslim community, and what do we do to help? Do we even question our policies in there lands or regions? Or the supporting of repressive dictatorships? Our behaviour will not change. You tell me the last time a Muslim government interfered or tried to interfere with the internal politics of a western government. Herein lies the beginning of the problem.

I can see where you are coming from But we shouldn't need to ask them for help to get rid of the terrorists because as seen by their protests the idea of their religion being evil and bad etc. is offensive to them!!

It's a double edged sword because if they were actively seeking out and destroying these terrorists then we wouldn't need all those soldiers in the Middle East!!

[emerald]

Quote: The Muslims over-reaction to the Popes speech, is just that a over-reaction. But can you step back a minute, and look at our reaction, to there over-reaction? They are a group of people under siege at the moment. There whole culture, achievements and standing in the west are being questioned. I see on this very forum, the character assassination of Islam, Muslims and there achievements belittled, in comparison to the perceived greatness of the western achievements.

i agree with you, you know each time i join a forum that is western, all i end up doing in trying to defend Arabs, and Islam in general, because all i seem to read is constant bombardment of how 'bad' we are or how backward we are, and how we should be more like the west. and the odd thing is, that when i'm on any political islamic forum i find myself defending the west, their ideals, their achievements, because they are the ones under attack. sitting here in the UK it is very easy for me to criticise the actions of those outside, we can belittle their feelings, their anger, because in essence we cannot, sitting here understand what that is like. do you what it means when western influence comes to an Arab world? it means we get a chain of McDonalds restaurants, a few burger king joint scattered here and there, and boundries that were once there, thigns which were illegal become more easily accesible, such as alcohol for isntance. i can see that not being a bad thing from a western persepctive but to a country where religious morals and rules are important, it means a destruction of those very morals, of their values and the way they see it of their youth. when you are under attack all the time, it does make you a little sensitive towards those who are doing the attacking. the Arab world does not want to be a part of the west, they have their own traditions, their own vlaues, they want to uphold, thats not to say that things dont need to change, hell a million damn things need to change! but not by starting a conflict and trying to make changes by force.

Quote: Two paragraphs cannot do your thread justice. But my main premise is slight double standards. If we got greater condemnation from the Muslim community, I guarantee we would ask for more. Most likely in the form of greater help from those communities, in apprehending these terrorists. All these demands we are asking of the Muslim community, and what do we do to help? Do we even question our policies in there lands or regions? Or the supporting of repressive dictatorships? Our behaviour will not change. You tell me the last time a Muslim government interfered or tried to interfere with the internal politics of a western government. Herein lies the beginning of the problem

you'd be suprised at how much condemnation there really is for terrorist attacks by the muslim community, the only problem is it is rarely publicised, in the city i live there have been many many events organised by islamic centres to condemn terrorism, new efforts to do more for british muslim youth who are getting easily effected by extermism, but that doesnt make news headlines when a bunch of muslims come together to condemn the jult 7th attacks.
the problem is also this, even though some mosques and islamic centres are trying to introduce activities for muslim youth, the gvt and local councils are unwilling to give financial aid to them, so instead they lack resources and depend on their own finances to do these activities but they generallly dont stretch far.

anyway it's slightly off topic from the topic starter.....so i'll end there.....

[the truth]

emerald wrote: Quote: The Muslims over-reaction to the Popes speech, is just that a over-reaction. But can you step back a minute, and look at our reaction, to there over-reaction? They are a group of people under siege at the moment. There whole culture, achievements and standing in the west are being questioned. I see on this very forum, the character assassination of Islam, Muslims and there achievements belittled, in comparison to the perceived greatness of the western achievements.

i agree with you, you know each time i join a forum that is western, all i end up doing in trying to defend Arabs, and Islam in general, because all i seem to read is constant bombardment of how 'bad' we are or how backward we are, and how we should be more like the west. and the odd thing is, that when i'm on any political islamic forum i find myself defending the west, their ideals, their achievements, because they are the ones under attack. sitting here in the UK it is very easy for me to criticise the actions of those outside, we can belittle their feelings, their anger, because in essence we cannot, sitting here understand what that is like. do you what it means when western influence comes to an Arab world? it means we get a chain of McDonalds restaurants, a few burger king joint scattered here and there, and boundries that were once there, thigns which were illegal become more easily accesible, such as alcohol for isntance. i can see that not being a bad thing from a western persepctive but to a country where religious morals and rules are important, it means a destruction of those very morals, of their values and the way they see it of their youth. when you are under attack all the time, it does make you a little sensitive towards those who are doing the attacking. the Arab world does not want to be a part of the west, they have their own traditions, their own vlaues, they want to uphold, thats not to say that things dont need to change, hell a million damn things need to change! but not by starting a conflict and trying to make changes by force.

Quote: Two paragraphs cannot do your thread justice. But my main premise is slight double standards. If we got greater condemnation from the Muslim community, I guarantee we would ask for more. Most likely in the form of greater help from those communities, in apprehending these terrorists. All these demands we are asking of the Muslim community, and what do we do to help? Do we even question our policies in there lands or regions? Or the supporting of repressive dictatorships? Our behaviour will not change. You tell me the last time a Muslim government interfered or tried to interfere with the internal politics of a western government. Herein lies the beginning of the problem

you'd be suprised at how much condemnation there really is for terrorist attacks by the muslim community, the only problem is it is rarely publicised, in the city i live there have been many many events organised by islamic centres to condemn terrorism, new efforts to do more for british muslim youth who are getting easily effected by extermism, but that doesnt make news headlines when a bunch of muslims come together to condemn the jult 7th attacks.
the problem is also this, even though some mosques and islamic centres are trying to introduce activities for muslim youth, the gvt and local councils are unwilling to give financial aid to them, so instead they lack resources and depend on their own finances to do these activities but they generallly dont stretch far.

anyway it's slightly off topic from the topic starter.....so i'll end there.....

The sad thing is that we actually need this program in the Western Europe. This is the movement I expect in Southern Beirut and Tehran. The UK should not be worrying about the youth movement of Muslim extremist. Who would have ever thought England would have to divert resources away from other things like education just to calm an out of control movement. These are problems I expect in the ME, not Europe. Countries like India deal with the same issues and its sad these cultures are now confronted with a very serious threat not at all related to these countries history.

[TheKrava]

I think it's a paradox: muslims are being blamed for violence. Muslims decide to protest, take it to streets and produce even more violence, so that everyone else would call them peaceful.

Wow!

[Muslima]

emerald wrote: i agree with you, you know each time i join a forum that is western, all i end up doing in trying to defend Arabs, and Islam in general, because all i seem to read is constant bombardment of how 'bad' we are or how backward we are, and how we should be more like the west. and the odd thing is, that when i'm on any political islamic forum i find myself defending the west, their ideals, their achievements, because they are the ones under attack.

Same here.

MoscowMatt, I totally agree.

[Yrkoon]

MoscowMatt wrote: ....as the all like to make out they are then why don't they consider those that commit terrorist acts etc to be insulting their religion like they do for example when the Pope quotes someone who says they are violent and evil?!

What I'm saying in a nutshell is that if saying they are violent and evil is an insult then why is showing they are violent and evil not considered the same. i.e where are they all when it comes to protesting about the likes of Al'Qaeda?!!

Explanations welcome!!

Why is this in the middle east forums? only 20% of the world's muslim population is in the middle east.

[mendosan]

Plato & Socrates wrote: MoscowMatt wrote: ....as the all like to make out they are then why don't they consider those that commit terrorist acts etc to be insulting their religion like they do for example when the Pope quotes someone who says they are violent and evil?!

What I'm saying in a nutshell is that if saying they are violent and evil is an insult then why is showing they are violent and evil not considered the same. i.e where are they all when it comes to protesting about the likes of Al'Qaeda?!!

Explanations welcome!!

Your asking for too much Moscowmatt. How many times did we in the UK, continually ask for all Catholics to condemn I.R.A violence? Muslims are from all reaches of this Globe, as are there traditions. Also Sunni's and Shia's are different branches of the same religion. Sometimes the mistake of wrapping all Islam together in the same grouping is wrong. Sometimes we ask the equivalent of asking the Pope, to appologise for Ulster unionist Protestant terrorism. Who on the middle east forum who's reasonable or moderate, holds all Jews accountable for what the state of Israel does? Do I?

The Muslims over-reaction to the Popes speech, is just that a over-reaction. But can you step back a minute, and look at our reaction, to there over-reaction? They are a group of people under siege at the moment. There whole culture, achievements and standing in the west are being questioned. I see on this very forum, the character assassination of Islam, Muslims and there achievements belittled, in comparison to the perceived greatness of the western achievements.

Two paragraphs cannot do your thread justice. But my main premise is slight double standards. If we got greater condemnation from the Muslim community, I guarantee we would ask for more. Most likely in the form of greater help from those communities, in apprehending these terrorists. All these demands we are asking of the Muslim community, and what do we do to help? Do we even question our policies in there lands or regions? Or the supporting of repressive dictatorships? Our behaviour will not change. You tell me the last time a Muslim government interfered or tried to interfere with the internal politics of a western government. Herein lies the beginning of the problem.

Just writing concerning your mention of the IRA the terrorism had a secular, political, nationalistic aim (a united Ireland) remember the marxist wings and can't be equated to Islamist terror which is rooted in Interpritation of Islamic texts. I don't see what point you make by misrespresnting both.

[Plato & Socrates]

MoscowMatt wrote: Plato & Socrates wrote: MoscowMatt wrote: ....as the all like to make out they are then why don't they consider those that commit terrorist acts etc to be insulting their religion like they do for example when the Pope quotes someone who says they are violent and evil?!

What I'm saying in a nutshell is that if saying they are violent and evil is an insult then why is showing they are violent and evil not considered the same. i.e where are they all when it comes to protesting about the likes of Al'Qaeda?!!

Explanations welcome!!

Your asking for too much Moscowmatt. How many times did we in the UK, continually ask for all Catholics to condemn I.R.A violence? Muslims are from all reaches of this Globe, as are there traditions. Also Sunni's and Shia's are different branches of the same religion. Sometimes the mistake of wrapping all Islam together in the same grouping is wrong. Sometimes we ask the equivalent of asking the Pope, to appologise for Ulster unionist Protestant terrorism. Who on the middle east forum who's reasonable or moderate, holds all Jews accountable for what the state of Israel does? Do I?

The Muslims over-reaction to the Popes speech, is just that a over-reaction. But can you step back a minute, and look at our reaction, to there over-reaction? They are a group of people under siege at the moment. There whole culture, achievements and standing in the west are being questioned. I see on this very forum, the character assassination of Islam, Muslims and there achievements belittled, in comparison to the perceived greatness of the western achievements.

Two paragraphs cannot do your thread justice. But my main premise is slight double standards. If we got greater condemnation from the Muslim community, I guarantee we would ask for more. Most likely in the form of greater help from those communities, in apprehending these terrorists. All these demands we are asking of the Muslim community, and what do we do to help? Do we even question our policies in there lands or regions? Or the supporting of repressive dictatorships? Our behaviour will not change. You tell me the last time a Muslim government interfered or tried to interfere with the internal politics of a western government. Herein lies the beginning of the problem.

I can see where you are coming from But we shouldn't need to ask them for help to get rid of the terrorists because as seen by their protests the idea of their religion being evil and bad etc. is offensive to them!!

It's a double edged sword because if they were actively seeking out and destroying these terrorists then we wouldn't need all those soldiers in the Middle East!!

When it comes to Muslims defending that Islam, and that it does'nt have aspects to it that are bad & evil. Let them take a run and a jump for all I care. Islam is just as evil as Christianity or Catholicism. The double edged sword, I see slightly different to you. Its much more clear cut for me, than what came first the chicken or the egg? Radical Islam came into being, partly because of western interference.

I wonder Moscowmatt, if England had its democratically elected government over thrown by a Arab country, and replaced by a puppet regime to there liking. Then that puppet regime denied the British electorate the vote. Then Arab companies owned and operated British North Sea gas and oil (subsidised). With the vast majority of the profits being taken out of the country, and the rest shared 50-50 between the British people and the puppet regime leader and his cronies. Then with the British people crying out for democracy and decide to march. The puppet regime clamps down on peaceful decent with the army. Don't forget also that these Arab governments, would give the British puppet regime full state visits, and fetter them with adulation's of being such greatmen and leaders etc etc etc.

There would be no anger or hard feeling portrayed by any of our public, towards these Arab governments would there? :roll: In totalitarian governments and dictatorships, the only people who tend to be immune from decention, are members of the clergy. Hence you can see the rise and the beginnings of the fundamentalism.

Mendosan wrote: Just writing concerning your mention of the IRA the terrorism had a secular, political, nationalistic aim (a united Ireland) remember the marxist wings and can't be equated to Islamist terror which is rooted in Interpritation of Islamic texts. I don't see what point you make by misrespresnting both.

Your half correct, but I was'nt debating the causes and aims between IRA nationalism and Islamic fundamentalism. Or whether the had the same goals. I was just equating that we Brits never demanded that all Catholics condemn IRA terrorism. The Irish troubles by its vary nature, was drawn down sectarian lines. It was Catholic vs Protestant.
We never asked Italian or Spanish Catholics to condemn Irish terrorism. But we expect Muslims from Morocco to Indonesia, to condemn what goes on in Palestine and elsewhere. Do you see the difference?

[MoscowMatt]

Yrkoon wrote: MoscowMatt wrote: ....as the all like to make out they are then why don't they consider those that commit terrorist acts etc to be insulting their religion like they do for example when the Pope quotes someone who says they are violent and evil?!

What I'm saying in a nutshell is that if saying they are violent and evil is an insult then why is showing they are violent and evil not considered the same. i.e where are they all when it comes to protesting about the likes of Al'Qaeda?!!

Explanations welcome!!

Why is this in the middle east forums? only 20% of the world's muslim population is in the middle east.

It's here because firstly Islam orginated from the Middle East and secondly this is one of the most popular forums so I thought I would get more debate by placing it here!!

[MoscowMatt]

emerald wrote: Quote: The Muslims over-reaction to the Popes speech, is just that a over-reaction. But can you step back a minute, and look at our reaction, to there over-reaction? They are a group of people under siege at the moment. There whole culture, achievements and standing in the west are being questioned. I see on this very forum, the character assassination of Islam, Muslims and there achievements belittled, in comparison to the perceived greatness of the western achievements.

i agree with you, you know each time i join a forum that is western, all i end up doing in trying to defend Arabs, and Islam in general, because all i seem to read is constant bombardment of how 'bad' we are or how backward we are, and how we should be more like the west. and the odd thing is, that when i'm on any political islamic forum i find myself defending the west, their ideals, their achievements, because they are the ones under attack. sitting here in the UK it is very easy for me to criticise the actions of those outside, we can belittle their feelings, their anger, because in essence we cannot, sitting here understand what that is like. do you what it means when western influence comes to an Arab world? it means we get a chain of McDonalds restaurants, a few burger king joint scattered here and there, and boundries that were once there, thigns which were illegal become more easily accesible, such as alcohol for isntance. i can see that not being a bad thing from a western persepctive but to a country where religious morals and rules are important, it means a destruction of those very morals, of their values and the way they see it of their youth. when you are under attack all the time, it does make you a little sensitive towards those who are doing the attacking. the Arab world does not want to be a part of the west, they have their own traditions, their own vlaues, they want to uphold, thats not to say that things dont need to change, hell a million damn things need to change! but not by starting a conflict and trying to make changes by force.

Quote: Two paragraphs cannot do your thread justice. But my main premise is slight double standards. If we got greater condemnation from the Muslim community, I guarantee we would ask for more. Most likely in the form of greater help from those communities, in apprehending these terrorists. All these demands we are asking of the Muslim community, and what do we do to help? Do we even question our policies in there lands or regions? Or the supporting of repressive dictatorships? Our behaviour will not change. You tell me the last time a Muslim government interfered or tried to interfere with the internal politics of a western government. Herein lies the beginning of the problem

you'd be suprised at how much condemnation there really is for terrorist attacks by the muslim community, the only problem is it is rarely publicised, in the city i live there have been many many events organised by islamic centres to condemn terrorism, new efforts to do more for british muslim youth who are getting easily effected by extermism, but that doesnt make news headlines when a bunch of muslims come together to condemn the jult 7th attacks.
the problem is also this, even though some mosques and islamic centres are trying to introduce activities for muslim youth, the gvt and local councils are unwilling to give financial aid to them, so instead they lack resources and depend on their own finances to do these activities but they generallly dont stretch far.

anyway it's slightly off topic from the topic starter.....so i'll end there.....

Good post! :tu:

Why do you think there is so little publicity towards the condemnation of terrorism by the Muslim community. I know bad news always sells better but surely the Media should be falling over themselves to show this?

[Shuya Nanahara]

shouldn't this be in the religion forum...?

[MoscowMatt]

Shuya Nanahara wrote: shouldn't this be in the religion forum...?

If you are sad enough that it bothers you that much then ask the Mods to move it!!!

Shesh some people!! :roll: :roll:

Alternatively you could add a constructive opnion, Afterall isn't that what this site is for?!!

[Saracen]

MoscowMatt wrote: ....as the all like to make out they are then why don't they consider those that commit terrorist acts etc to be insulting their religion like they do for example when the Pope quotes someone who says they are violent and evil?!

Who's "they"? I claim that Islam is a religion of peace, just like ALL religions. However, I still condemn terrorist attacks and do so with utmost justice. Whenever I criticize Israel, it's not because I support terrorism. Or I don't support terrorism out of this.

Quote: What I'm saying in a nutshell is that if saying they are violent and evil is an insult then why is showing they are violent and evil not considered the same. i.e where are they all when it comes to protesting about the likes of Al'Qaeda?!!

Always do so. Just because there are no protests doesn't mean they don't voice outrage. Also, while I am outraged at Al Qaeda, I'm also more outraged at the Coalition in Iraq and the Israeli government for doing what they do. Where's the outrage from the Zionist camp and the people who outrightly support the Iraq war, all the while seeing people die and seemingly support that?

I'll tell you why: many people are too prejudiced to the extent that they can't accept responsibility. The Coalition and the Israeli army have both committed many crimes, and we have yet to see both parties accept full responsibility for those actions.

Look in the mirror, and then come talk to me about Muslims.

[MoscowMatt]

Saracen wrote: MoscowMatt wrote: ....as the all like to make out they are then why don't they consider those that commit terrorist acts etc to be insulting their religion like they do for example when the Pope quotes someone who says they are violent and evil?!

Who's "they"? I claim that Islam is a religion of peace, just like ALL religions. However, I still condemn terrorist attacks and do so with utmost justice. Whenever I criticize Israel, it's not because I support terrorism. Or I don't support terrorism out of this.

Quote: What I'm saying in a nutshell is that if saying they are violent and evil is an insult then why is showing they are violent and evil not considered the same. i.e where are they all when it comes to protesting about the likes of Al'Qaeda?!!

Always do so. Just because there are no protests doesn't mean they don't voice outrage. Also, while I am outraged at Al Qaeda, I'm also more outraged at the Coalition in Iraq and the Israeli government for doing what they do. Where's the outrage from the Zionist camp and the people who outrightly support the Iraq war, all the while seeing people die and seemingly support that?

I'll tell you why: many people are too prejudiced to the extent that they can't accept responsibility. The Coalition and the Israeli army have both committed many crimes, and we have yet to see both parties accept full responsibility for those actions.

Look in the mirror, and then come talk to me about Muslims.

'Many crimes'? :? I'm only aware of a few. Perhaps you could brief me on all the details??

[jimmyz]

Saracen wrote: MoscowMatt wrote: ....as the all like to make out they are then why don't they consider those that commit terrorist acts etc to be insulting their religion like they do for example when the Pope quotes someone who says they are violent and evil?!

Who's "they"? I claim that Islam is a religion of peace, just like ALL religions. However, I still condemn terrorist attacks and do so with utmost justice. Whenever I criticize Israel, it's not because I support terrorism. Or I don't support terrorism out of this.

Quote: What I'm saying in a nutshell is that if saying they are violent and evil is an insult then why is showing they are violent and evil not considered the same. i.e where are they all when it comes to protesting about the likes of Al'Qaeda?!!

Always do so. Just because there are no protests doesn't mean they don't voice outrage. Also, while I am outraged at Al Qaeda, I'm also more outraged at the Coalition in Iraq and the Israeli government for doing what they do. Where's the outrage from the Zionist camp and the people who outrightly support the Iraq war, all the while seeing people die and seemingly support that?

I'll tell you why: many people are too prejudiced to the extent that they can't accept responsibility. The Coalition and the Israeli army have both committed many crimes, and we have yet to see both parties accept full responsibility for those actions.

Look in the mirror, and then come talk to me about Muslims.


Quote: However, I still condemn terrorist attacks and do so with utmost justice. I would eat my hat if you could link one post backing your statement up Saracen.

Care to take me up on it?

[Saracen]

MoscowMatt wrote: 'Many crimes'? I'm only aware of a few. Perhaps you could brief me on all the details??

Sure... 1948... all the wars Israel fought against Arab states... occupation during the 1970's and 80's and how they subverted innocent Palestinians to military rule, the massacres in the Lebanon war... the intifadas and how Israel crushed both with brute and unmerciful force... etc.

Quote: I would eat my hat if you could link one post backing your statement up Saracen.

Care to take me up on it?

Ever read my blog, and how I always condemn Hamas for killing innocent Israelis and about what's going on Iraq, on part of those who are sectarian and causing these terrorist attacks? Yes, I do condemn terrorism. And not just Palestinian and "Islamic" terrorism, but also Zionist terrorism, which I refuse to call "Jewish terrorism".

[jimmyz]

Saracen wrote: MoscowMatt wrote: 'Many crimes'? I'm only aware of a few. Perhaps you could brief me on all the details??

Sure... 1948... all the wars Israel fought against Arab states... occupation during the 1970's and 80's and how they subverted innocent Palestinians to military rule, the massacres in the Lebanon war... the intifadas and how Israel crushed both with brute and unmerciful force... etc.

Quote: I would eat my hat if you could link one post backing your statement up Saracen.

Care to take me up on it?

Ever read my blog, and how I always condemn Hamas for killing innocent Israelis and about what's going on Iraq, on part of those who are sectarian and causing these terrorist attacks? Yes, I do condemn terrorism. And not just Palestinian and "Islamic" terrorism, but also Zionist terrorism, which I refuse to call "Jewish terrorism".

I would know only your PCF forum persona and was referring to posts here.No,I dont supose you should take the time...However I thought you might just to put my face "in it".But then again the Saracen Spin starts HERE!