Political Crossfire Forums

[eynon]

Quote: Hasyim said the regret was "enough" and further resentment from the Muslims would only justify the pope's statement. "If the rage continues, perhaps what the pope said is true," he said.

http://www.thejakartapost.com/detailheadlines.asp?fileid=20060919.@01&irec=0

:clap: :clap: :clap: it's great to hear about moderate muslims finally standing up to the extremists who have hijacked Islam.......PBUY Mr. Hasyim :)

[The_Right_Honourable]

Good Stuff. Very true.

[Lumina]

Ah, a voice of reason.

[CountryGuy]

No. This is not the voice of reason.

He STILL expected that the Pope had to make a statement of 'regret'. It shouldn't have been necessary, particularly if the Muslim world that's so busy protesting actually took a look at the entire speech rather than this specific snippet that was simply a QUOTE from the Middle Ages.

That should have not been necessary.

[DSwain]

CountryGuy wrote: No. This is not the voice of reason.

He STILL expected that the Pope had to make a statement of 'regret'. It shouldn't have been necessary, particularly if the Muslim world that's so busy protesting actually took a look at the entire speech rather than this specific snippet that was simply a QUOTE from the Middle Ages.

That should have not been necessary.

Well, no - if I say something that so enrages and upsets people on this forum, for instance, then I might want to consider expressing regret for causing offence. That doesn't mean I forego the right to offend or enrage in the future, nor that I believe that I was wrong - just that I regret the offence. That's just good manners. I think that Mr Hasyim should be applauded for showing commonsense.

[CountryGuy]

DSwain wrote: CountryGuy wrote: No. This is not the voice of reason.

He STILL expected that the Pope had to make a statement of 'regret'. It shouldn't have been necessary, particularly if the Muslim world that's so busy protesting actually took a look at the entire speech rather than this specific snippet that was simply a QUOTE from the Middle Ages.

That should have not been necessary.

Well, no - if I say something that so enrages and upsets people on this forum, for instance, then I might want to consider expressing regret for causing offence. That doesn't mean I forego the right to offend or enrage in the future, nor that I believe that I was wrong - just that I regret the offence. That's just good manners. I think that Mr Hasyim should be applauded for showing commonsense.

What you are saying then is freedom of speech is dead, anywhere in the world. I refuse to believe or accept that. If I'm in a muslim country, I can appreciate wanting to watch my language (and that would apply to minding my manners whenever dealing with another culture), but to expect that quoting ancient text thousands of miles away can now bring me to task... Where are the freedom of speech advocates now? Or does that only apply when one wants to beat up on the US government?

[lilwolf]

WOW!!!! that is great. I am really pleased to see someone speaking out especially from the muslim POV.

[Rankor and Pissing]

CountryGuy wrote: No. This is not the voice of reason.

He STILL expected that the Pope had to make a statement of 'regret'. It shouldn't have been necessary, particularly if the Muslim world that's so busy protesting actually took a look at the entire speech rather than this specific snippet that was simply a QUOTE from the Middle Ages.

That should have not been necessary.

At this point I'll support any step in the right direction. At the very least the man seems reasonable. Do I smell reformation???

Nope... just my buscuits burning. Soon though, I hope.

[MCJAMA76]

CountryGuy wrote: No. This is not the voice of reason.

He STILL expected that the Pope had to make a statement of 'regret'. It shouldn't have been necessary, particularly if the Muslim world that's so busy protesting actually took a look at the entire speech rather than this specific snippet that was simply a QUOTE from the Middle Ages.

That should have not been necessary.

That brings up a valid point...I wonder how many Muslims actually participating in the protesting heard the speech in its entirety and not just the "glorified" quote that has been blown way out of proportion?

I commend the Pope for his honesty...something this world is clearly lacking.

[DSwain]

CountryGuy wrote: DSwain wrote: CountryGuy wrote: No. This is not the voice of reason.

He STILL expected that the Pope had to make a statement of 'regret'. It shouldn't have been necessary, particularly if the Muslim world that's so busy protesting actually took a look at the entire speech rather than this specific snippet that was simply a QUOTE from the Middle Ages.

That should have not been necessary.

Well, no - if I say something that so enrages and upsets people on this forum, for instance, then I might want to consider expressing regret for causing offence. That doesn't mean I forego the right to offend or enrage in the future, nor that I believe that I was wrong - just that I regret the offence. That's just good manners. I think that Mr Hasyim should be applauded for showing commonsense.

What you are saying then is freedom of speech is dead, anywhere in the world. I refuse to believe or accept that. If I'm in a muslim country, I can appreciate wanting to watch my language (and that would apply to minding my manners whenever dealing with another culture), but to expect that quoting ancient text thousands of miles away can now bring me to task... Where are the freedom of speech advocates now? Or does that only apply when one wants to beat up on the US government?

Where did I say that? I specifically did NOT say that, in fact. This is what I said:

if I say something that so enrages and upsets people on this forum, for instance, then I might want to consider expressing regret for causing offence. That doesn't mean I forego the right to offend or enrage in the future, nor that I believe that I was wrong - just that I regret the offence.

[CountryGuy]

Quote: of‧fense  /əˈfɛns or, for 7–9, ˈɔfɛns, ˈɒfɛns/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[uh-fens or, for 7–9, aw-fens, of-ens] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a violation or breaking of a social or moral rule; transgression; sin.
2. a transgression of the law; misdemeanor.
3. a cause of transgression or wrong.
4. something that offends or displeases.
5. the act of offending or displeasing.
6. the feeling of resentful displeasure caused: to give offense.
7. the act of attacking; attack or assault: weapons of offense.
8. a person, army, etc., that is attacking.
9. Sports.
a. the players or team unit responsible for attacking or scoring in a game.
b. the players possessing or controlling the ball, puck, etc., or the aspects or period of a game when this obtains.
c. a pattern or style of scoring attack: single-wing offense; fast-break offense.
d. offensive effectiveness; ability to score: a total breakdown in offense.
10. Archaic. injury, harm, or hurt.

Well, no offense, but I don't think this is what the Pope did, and why he should not be expected to apologize. If anything, the Muslim officials who went completely off their rockers barraging the Pope for comments he didn't even make (but quoted to prove they are WRONG) should apologize.[/i]

[DSwain]

CountryGuy wrote: Quote: of‧fense  /əˈfɛns or, for 7–9, ˈɔfɛns, ˈɒfɛns/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[uh-fens or, for 7–9, aw-fens, of-ens] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a violation or breaking of a social or moral rule; transgression; sin.
2. a transgression of the law; misdemeanor.
3. a cause of transgression or wrong.
4. something that offends or displeases.
5. the act of offending or displeasing.
6. the feeling of resentful displeasure caused: to give offense.
7. the act of attacking; attack or assault: weapons of offense.
8. a person, army, etc., that is attacking.
9. Sports.
a. the players or team unit responsible for attacking or scoring in a game.
b. the players possessing or controlling the ball, puck, etc., or the aspects or period of a game when this obtains.
c. a pattern or style of scoring attack: single-wing offense; fast-break offense.
d. offensive effectiveness; ability to score: a total breakdown in offense.
10. Archaic. injury, harm, or hurt.

Well, no offense, but I don't think this is what the Pope did, and why he should not be expected to apologize. If anything, the Muslim officials who went completely off their rockers barraging the Pope for comments he didn't even make (but quoted to prove they are WRONG) should apologize.[/i]

As I'm sure you know, the word 'offence' has variable definitions, as you have listed which can be applied dependent on situation. It does not preclude freedom of speech nor of freedom to offend. Again, to apologise for offence does not and should not affect one's freedom to offend in the future.