Political Crossfire Forums

[Nathyn]

Out of curiousity, why is there the requirement for a person to have a CIRCUMCISABLE PENIS to convert to Judaism? What's with the obsession with genitalia?

What I mean is, for example -- can a hermaphrodite convert to Judaism? Or a person who had some birth defect or injury that led to deformity which wouldn't allow for circumcision? Or, for instance, what about hemophiliacs, for whom circumcision might mean death?

To broaden the topic a bit: What do you consider the prerequisites for conversion, period?

Oh, and to ensure I get an answer: In the past, I highly regarded Judaism, but I'm an Atheist now and have no intention, whatsoever, of converting to Judaism. I say that because I know, for some Jews, you aren't really supposed to answer the question, "How do you convert?" or else face the possibility of encouraging unjust conversion.

[Duchifas]

Nathyn wrote: Out of curiousity, why is there the requirement for a person to have a CIRCUMCISABLE PENIS to convert to Judaism? What's with the obsession with genitalia?

I don't think there is such a requirement. Though, obviously, I am no expert. I know, for example, that when a person was previously circumcised (medical, non-religious ceremony), you just make a little incision and let out some blood. You don't.....recircumcise. So not sure where you are getting your thing from. Mohels are pretty reasonable people.

Quote: What I mean is, for example -- can a hermaphrodite convert to Judaism? Or a person who had some birth defect or injury that led to deformity which wouldn't allow for circumcision? Or, for instance, what about hemophiliacs, for whom circumcision might mean death?

To broaden the topic a bit: What do you consider the prerequisites for conversion, period?

A sincere intention.

Quote: Oh, and to ensure I get an answer: In the past, I highly regarded Judaism, but I'm an Atheist now and have no intention, whatsoever, of converting to Judaism. I say that because I know, for some Jews, you aren't really supposed to answer the question, "How do you convert?" or else face the possibility of encouraging unjust conversion.

I'd think that answering the question by telling the person he would need to get circumcised would do anything but encourage. :)

[Rankor and Pissing]

Is there a moyle... is there a moyle in the house?

[TheTME]

Genesis Chapter 17
א וַיְהִי אַבְרָם, בֶּן-תִּשְׁעִים שָׁנָה וְתֵשַׁע שָׁנִים; וַיֵּרָא יְהוָה אֶל-אַבְרָם, וַיֹּאמֶר אֵלָיו אֲנִי-אֵל שַׁדַּי--הִתְהַלֵּךְ לְפָנַי, וֶהְיֵה תָמִים. 1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him: 'I am God Almighty; walk before Me, and be thou wholehearted.
ב וְאֶתְּנָה בְרִיתִי, בֵּינִי וּבֵינֶךָ; וְאַרְבֶּה אוֹתְךָ, בִּמְאֹד מְאֹד. 2 And I will make My covenant between Me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.'
ג וַיִּפֹּל אַבְרָם, עַל-פָּנָיו; וַיְדַבֵּר אִתּוֹ אֱלֹהִים, לֵאמֹר. 3 And Abram fell on his face; and God talked with him, saying:
ד אֲנִי, הִנֵּה בְרִיתִי אִתָּךְ; וְהָיִיתָ, לְאַב הֲמוֹן גּוֹיִם. 4 'As for Me, behold, My covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be the father of a multitude of nations.
ה וְלֹא-יִקָּרֵא עוֹד אֶת-שִׁמְךָ, אַבְרָם; וְהָיָה שִׁמְךָ אַבְרָהָם, כִּי אַב-הֲמוֹן גּוֹיִם נְתַתִּיךָ. 5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for the father of a multitude of nations have I made thee.
ו וְהִפְרֵתִי אֹתְךָ בִּמְאֹד מְאֹד, וּנְתַתִּיךָ לְגוֹיִם; וּמְלָכִים, מִמְּךָ יֵצֵאוּ. 6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
ז וַהֲקִמֹתִי אֶת-בְּרִיתִי בֵּינִי וּבֵינֶךָ, וּבֵין זַרְעֲךָ אַחֲרֶיךָ לְדֹרֹתָם--לִבְרִית עוֹלָם: לִהְיוֹת לְךָ לֵאלֹהִים, וּלְזַרְעֲךָ אַחֲרֶיךָ. 7 And I will establish My covenant between Me and thee and thy seed after thee throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee and to thy seed after thee.
ח וְנָתַתִּי לְךָ וּלְזַרְעֲךָ אַחֲרֶיךָ אֵת אֶרֶץ מְגֻרֶיךָ, אֵת כָּל-אֶרֶץ כְּנַעַן, לַאֲחֻזַּת, עוֹלָם; וְהָיִיתִי לָהֶם, לֵאלֹהִים. 8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land of thy sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.'
ט וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים אֶל-אַבְרָהָם, וְאַתָּה אֶת-בְּרִיתִי תִשְׁמֹר--אַתָּה וְזַרְעֲךָ אַחֲרֶיךָ, לְדֹרֹתָם. 9 And God said unto Abraham: 'And as for thee, thou shalt keep My covenant, thou, and thy seed after thee throughout their generations.
י זֹאת בְּרִיתִי אֲשֶׁר תִּשְׁמְרוּ, בֵּינִי וּבֵינֵיכֶם, וּבֵין זַרְעֲךָ, אַחֲרֶיךָ: הִמּוֹל לָכֶם, כָּל-זָכָר. 10 This is My covenant, which ye shall keep, between Me and you and thy seed after thee: every male among you shall be circumcised.
יא וּנְמַלְתֶּם, אֵת בְּשַׂר עָרְלַתְכֶם; וְהָיָה לְאוֹת בְּרִית, בֵּינִי וּבֵינֵיכֶם. 11 And ye shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of a covenant betwixt Me and you.
יב וּבֶן-שְׁמֹנַת יָמִים, יִמּוֹל לָכֶם כָּל-זָכָר--לְדֹרֹתֵיכֶם: יְלִיד בָּיִת--וּמִקְנַת-כֶּסֶף מִכֹּל בֶּן-נֵכָר, אֲשֶׁר לֹא מִזַּרְעֲךָ הוּא. 12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every male throughout your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any foreigner, that is not of thy seed.
יג הִמּוֹל יִמּוֹל יְלִיד בֵּיתְךָ, וּמִקְנַת כַּסְפֶּךָ; וְהָיְתָה בְרִיתִי בִּבְשַׂרְכֶם, לִבְרִית עוֹלָם. 13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised; and My covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
יד וְעָרֵל זָכָר, אֲשֶׁר לֹא-יִמּוֹל אֶת-בְּשַׂר עָרְלָתוֹ--וְנִכְרְתָה הַנֶּפֶשׁ הַהִוא, מֵעַמֶּיהָ: אֶת-בְּרִיתִי, הֵפַר. {ס} 14 And the uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken My covenant.' {S}


I guess they feel circumcision is just one of the laws that you obey when you are a jew.

[Commander Freyr]

It is also one of the ways in which the Jewish people symbolize the covenant they have with god.