Political Crossfire Forums

[Geronimo]

If anyone here has read the book A Wrinkle In Time, They talk about a Tesseract.

A tesseract, is the wrinkling of time and space, that defeats the idea that a straight line is the fastest way to get from point A to B.

the First dimension is a line.

the Second dimension is a square, because you square a line

Third would be squaring the square, which gives you a cube.

The Question is, how would you square a cube? Most people consider it as "time". Other mathematical wizards consider it a Hypercube, an extension of a cube. The tesseract is the wrinkling of a straight line, or the fourth demension, or time,to immediately appear in a different place, that normally would take time to get to.

What are your thoughts?

[LostSoul3412]

Geronimo wrote: What are your thoughts?

Confusion.

(Also, you may want to change the thread name, since titles in all caps are against forum rules. :wink: )

[MplsBison]

Geronimo wrote:
The Question is, how would you square a cube?

What are your thoughts?

Well, first of all, squaring a cube gives 6 dimensions.

(a^b)^c = a^(b*c) => (a^3)^2 = a^(3*2) = a^6


Anyway, my idea of 4 dimensional space is basically just an extention of what you already have.

IE, 1 dimension is a line, 2 dimensions is a square, 3 dimensions is a cube, and 4 dimensions, then, would be a line of cubes.


Here's a rough picture of what this is (I can only express it for discrete values of the 4th dimension, but I think you get the idea):



And, if you can imagine it, 5d would be a square of cubes, 6d would be a cube of cubes, and so on.

[Geronimo]

Ya I see where you are...I used to have picture of a hypercube, and a hypercube squared, (etc). kinda makes you think, huh?

[bla bla]

So 5th, and 6th, dimensions would be variations of time?

[Bobby Chicken]

LostSoul3412 wrote: Confusion.
Ditto.

[Geronimo]

the fourth would be time. the fifth would be the process of wrinkling all the other dimensions, and the 6th is unknown.

[bla bla]

Time should really be the first dimension listed, if there is any sort of
necessary progression in the list formation.

Without time no particles would vibrate, no atoms would form patterns,
no lines would be drawn.

When time moves forward (for us the only direction known) spacial
qualities unfold progressively into the three dimensions.

[Geronimo]

I agree, but time is the 5th. It does however entwine itself in 1-4, thats what I was trying to put across. time has rule over all under it. 1-4 are found mathematically, and have been proven.

[cap'n queasy]

Time is simply movement through three dimensional space.

It is not a dimension.

[ieatfood]

Is it possible that many dimensions exist (perhaps 20-30) and that we simply can't comprehend anything beyond 3?

[wormwood]

I read something recently that might pertain to this discussion:


Quote: There has been a revolution in our thinking about extra dimensions. A new understanding of the feasibility of localizing four dimensional gauge theories in higher dimensional spacetimes has led to a variety of phenomenologically viable models, and even to the possibility of localizing gravity. Unlike older theories of extra dimensions, much of the focus now is on extra dimensions with sizes on the order of one thousandth of a proton width or larger! Thus, there is a potential for discovery at current and soon-to-be-completed colliders, and in some cases table-top experiments. In addition there are tremendous implications for cosmology.

Since Einstein forced physicists to think of time as a fourth dimension there have been speculations about a fifth and even higher dimensions. In order to avoid gross violations with experiment and even everyday experience it was thought that any extra dimensions would have to be compact (like a circle or a sphere) and that their effects, if any, on present day experiments would be unobservably small. There was the possibility that ordinary particles that we know are somehow restricted to a membrane with three spatial dimensions which is embedded in a higher dimensional spacetime. This possibility was not taken very seriously since it was not known how to realize this in a quantum field theory in a robust way. However recent developments in string theory show that such membranes are required for the consistency of string theory, and so they have acquired a new-found respectability and the nickname of branes. What is most exciting about this development is that when realistic models are built that incorporate such branes there are often experimental signatures that can be seen at current and upcoming experiments. These signatures range from observing a change in the strength of gravity at sub-millimeter distances in table-top experiments to the production of gravitons with momentum in an extra dimension at colliders. There are also important effects in cosmology which is about to undergo its own revolution due to an upcoming abundance of satellite data on the cosmic microwave background.

It is this potential for verification or elimination by experimental data that is fueling the drive to understand the new possibilities of extra dimensions. Dimensions that are 1/1000 of a proton's width. Millions could exist, but I doubt they will matter very much until we have a dramatic leap in nanotechnology or particle physics.

[cap'n queasy]

ieatfood wrote: Is it possible that many dimensions exist (perhaps 20-30) and that we simply can't comprehend anything beyond 3?

It may be there are an infinite number of dimensions.

[British boy]

Has anyone identified why we can only perceive 3?

[baleyg]

British boy wrote: Has anyone identified why we can only perceive 3?
Well.. it could be that the cube really is a sphere. But it would still place any point relative to another in three dimensions. So it's not just short- sightedness, at least.

[MplsBison]

cap'n queasy wrote:
It is not a dimension.

Of course it is.

It has all the other properties of the first 3.

[bla bla]

British boy wrote: Has anyone identified why we can only perceive 3?

We are made from the stuff in these three dimensions, and built to
function within this set of rules. We see light waves, feel surfaces of
physical matter, etc.

If we do find proof of other dimensions it will be like looking at footprints.
You could witness the effects of other dimensions on ours, but you could
not experience them.


One such possible trace of dimensions outside ours is the problem of
explaining a universe of physical matter. Where did a universe full of
matter come from? Did it just suddenly pop out of nothingness at one
or more points to fill up everything? Whats everything-- where does it
end? It would get much easier to solve these problems, that seem to
defy any sort of logic, if you could include other dimensions.

Say our universe does not go on forever, the boundaries may be defined
within the logic of bordering dimensions.

Matter is only tiny shreds of vibrating energy that have spilled forth from
a single point into our space. The energy point that formed matter
creating our local expanding galaxy has unique qualities. It exhibits the
properties of something under high pressure being suddenly released.
My example would be to see our three dimensions as a bubble floating
inside a sea of other dimensions representing a more tightly packed
volume of energies. The two do not mix, but share a boundary.
If some force pushed a small amount of that compacted sea into the
bubble it would behave exactly as the big bang event would have: it
would expand very rapidly in all directions making a cloud of material far
less dense than it had been, equalizing with it's environment, and taking
on new behavioral properties.

[The Ferryman]

Geronimo wrote: If anyone here has read the book A Wrinkle In Time, They talk about a Tesseract.

A tesseract, is the wrinkling of time and space, that defeats the idea that a straight line is the fastest way to get from point A to B.

the First dimension is a line.

the Second dimension is a square, because you square a line

Third would be squaring the square, which gives you a cube.

The Question is, how would you square a cube? Most people consider it as "time". Other mathematical wizards consider it a Hypercube, an extension of a cube. The tesseract is the wrinkling of a straight line, or the fourth demension, or time,to immediately appear in a different place, that normally would take time to get to.

What are your thoughts?


Check out the movie 'Event Horizon' which is sorta based on a similar theory.

[bob.appleyard]

Extra dimensions are used as an analytical tool in many fields. As I have previously noted, a friend of mine is constructing a swarming algorithm in 1000+ dimensions for analysing drugs.

[anselfir]

You cannot conceptualize 4-d in 3-d for obvious reasons.