Political Crossfire Forums

[The Councillor]

Essay:

'The Falklands Islands are British territory. Argentina has no legitimate historical or legal claim to them. Discuss.'

[S.O.G.]

What is there to discuss?

Argentina is bankrupt. Argentinians should be sold to Chinese labour camps. Discuss that.

[Josh]

I can't give you an essay on the subject. I'm just not that knowledgeable on the topic. But, the British should at least hear the Argentinians in the requested sovereignity talks.

Or, at least go ahead and drill for oil...

[Rave against the Machine]

The British should be killed for there murderous barbarians worldwide acts..:)

[red dragon]

Quote: The British should be killed for there murderous barbarians worldwide acts.

LOL what??/ The Argie junta had it coming to them, stupid thing to do anyway they underestimated old iron drawers and got a nose bleed from it. The oil hasn't been found yet anyway. like somebody said about the falklands' it's like two bald men fighting over a comb'

[Silvio Dante]

I remember at the time, I was 10, my father loving it when the Junta invaded Las Malvinas.

As an Irish Republican family we rejoiced in the Brits being'invaded'.

Looking back on it now it was a hell of an expensive exercise on the British taxpayer to re-liberate two rocks in the freezing waters of the South Atlantic.

Still different times I suppose...

[red dragon]

it was latin bravado the junta was in trouble, we would not have lost anyhow, the US was going to supply the UK with an airfcraft carrier as Casper Wineburger (SP?) said the US could not let it's closest ally lose the war and let the Soviets have a free hand in Europe, especially a weakend UK>

[thundertaker]

It was not really the island's per se that were being fought over, but the principle that territory that was sovereign British terrirory being invaded by a foreign army and allowing them to take something by force. That was a principle worth fighting for, or else we might eventually have found ourselves having to fight bigger wars closer to home in the belief of Britain's enemies that we are weak and unwilling to put up a fight against foreign aggression. Even if the islands themselves are strategically worthless.
Besides, the population of the Falklands was dead against Argentine sovereingty. Who were they to go against the wishes of the residents of those islands?

[Eire]

Typical, typical. How dare anyone invade the "Great British Empire". Well there was a man, Michael Collins, and a few rebels that caused you a fair bit of hardship. LOL

[thundertaker]

Right, how many times do I have to tell you about the fact that no-one has the right to go against the democratic wishes of the majority of the residents and use brute force to achieve their aims?

[Eire]

What if brute force is the wish of the majority of the people?

[thundertaker]

I doubt the majority of Northern Irish people want to see violence flair up again in Ulster. Most of the troublemakers are bored chavs or tiresome middle-class 'revolutionaries'. Screw them......

[BlueEmperor1]

The invasion of the Falkland Islands represented a blatent attack on the Sovereignty of United Kingdom territory and left Her Majesty's Government with no other available response. I do not accept that the United Kingdom overreacted, which is sometimes suggested. It wasn't just a case of some Argentinian 'scrap metal merchants' waltzing in and claiming the Falklands for Argentina - these were Argentinian Marines, who launched a chaotic and heavy attack on their primary target, Moody Brook Barracks, using heavy weapons and phosphorous grenades - fortunately, the barracks had been abandoned. The siege of Government House and subsequent capture of Governor Rex Hunt and the Royal Marines contingent was fierce and their being paraded by the Argentines rightly caused fierce reaction in Britain.

At any rate, the Argentine military junta, led by General Galtieri, launched the sneak invasion purely to distract the impoverished Argentinians from the severe economic crisis and civil disunity (the economy was in an appalling state with inflation running at 140%!), rather than any lofty Argentine claim to the islands.

Arguing over whether the small population of the Falklands (1,800 people) made defending the islanders worth while strikes me as entirely irrelevant. If it was only 500 or 5,000,000 the principle would remain the same. The Falkland Islanders wanted to remain British and, under Article 73 of the United Nations charter, that is their clear right. The United Kingdom, therefore, has a right and, indeed, a duty to defend those islands. The same applies to the people of Ulster, who have consistently demonstrated their desire to remain part of the United Kingdom.

B.E.

[stringsshraugh]

the malvinas like gibralta and northern ireland and so many other parts of the world,
robbed by greedy british governments,power crazy war mongers.
the brit government should give all these lands back and take their invader residents out of these robbed lands.
the brits have murdered more people than hitler ever did,but wont admit to it.

[BlueEmperor1]

stringsshraugh wrote: the malvinas like gibralta and northern ireland and so many other parts of the world,
robbed by greedy british governments,power crazy war mongers.
the brit government should give all these lands back and take their invader residents out of these robbed lands.
the brits have murdered more people than hitler ever did,but wont admit to it.

Grow up!

B.E.

[red dragon]

Quote: the malvinas like gibralta and northern ireland and so many other parts of the world,
robbed by greedy british governments,power crazy war mongers.
the brit government should give all these lands back and take their invader residents out of these robbed lands.
the brits have murdered more people than hitler ever did,but wont admit to it.


t**t

[stringsshraugh]

i have well grown up.

are you another hard done by brit,anything that happens the brits like,
in iraq or anywhere in the world,the others are always at fault,never the perfect brits.
you need to take a look at your countries history.
being british is nothing to be proud of.

[thundertaker]

What laughable rubbish. I bet you are the type who is also a vociferous critic of the British Empire too, did you know that at one time, up to 1/3 of all the European soldiers in the British army used to garrison the Empire were Irish?

Also, several prominent figures in the British establishment during Britain's imperial heyday were Irish. Including:

The Duke of Wellington

Lord Castlereagh (British foreign secratary in the post napoleonic period)

Lord Palmerston (Prime-Minister famous inventing the concept of 'gunboat diplomacy')

Lord Kitchener (Britain's famous imperial general of the 19th century, victor of Omburdurman, commander of British forces in the later years of the 2nd Anglo-Boer war of 1899-1902 and the man on the 'I want YOU to join your country's army, God Save the King' posters of WW1).

Etc, ad nauseum.

So the Irish were full and even enthusiastic supporters of the Empire. I think the founder of Sinn Fein once made a comment expressing Pride in the empire, but I'd have to look it up........

[stringsshraugh]

what typical crap.i would not expect anymore from a brit.
i am not interested in the turncoats who side with the brits.
traitors the lot of them.
especially the one who were in the forces when ireland was occupied.
they were needed at home to get rid of the invaders.
you see the british raided and murdered their way around the world to get land and anything else they could get their hands on.
they tried to starve the irish,and nearly suceeded.
they said we could not be goverened.
lie.
we were governable by a government whom we choose,not a foreign imposed one.
they put their nose into india,look at the trouble they left there.
isreal.gibralta.
ironic in gibralta.an english person is a second class citizen there now. I have been there many times.
why do you think the irish speak english.
do you know?
the brits tried to stop all education in ireland,keep them ignorant.
banned the irish language,tried to stop all irish music/dancing etc.
luckily they did not suceed.
this was all to gain all the land and wealth ireland had to offer.
left the top part our country in turmoil and infested with unionists/royalists.
the result 30 yrs of killing.
and you think i am speaking crap.
you need to read your history books and see what your countrymen did in the past.
even to the bloody sunday shootings in derry.
thia was not the first time that there was a bloody sunday massacre in ireland.
the dublin and monaghan bombings in 1974.
the irish government know that MI5 were in cooperating with loyalist forces,giving them the information and bomb making materials.
of course the british government who stand for all thats good and democratic[sic].would never admit to it.
i would not say anything bad about the average brit in the street.most of them like us all are just living day to day and getting on with their lives.
but there is a big lack of awareness in england [maybe they dont want to know] about their history.
they do remember winning the 2 world wars.
i would not be going around showing off my union jack shorts when away from england if i were english.
be better to hide the fact.
they are not very popular anywhere in europe.
and i have travelled every country in europe for years.i used to work on the continent.

[thundertaker]

As I've already said, The Irish were full participants when it came to 'stealing other people's lands' and colonising them in the 18th and 19th centuries.
Not every Irishman subscribed to your viewpoint that Ireland was 'oppressed' by England. Some, like the Prime-Ministers I've mentioned, obviously considered Ireland to be a constituent part of the UK, just like England, Wales and Scotland.

As for the British trying to starve the Irish, you make it sound as if the potatoe famine was a deliberate policy on the part of the British to commit genocide in Ireland. Perhaps if the potatoe farmers had practiced crop rotation and not relied on just potatoes, the famine wouldn't have had such a devastating impact.
the problem was extenuated by Irish (mainly protestant) landlords who didn't give a s**t about their tenant farmers and saw that they were evicted when they couldn't pay the rent. the government, contrary to the myths often promoted by many Irish-American websites, DID provide famine relief. But the problem was too widespread to neutralise completely.

When the Normans invaded England in 1066, they commited atrocities in England. William the Conqueror laid waste to the rebellious north. Reducing many northerners to cannibalism. Do people keep banging on about this? Neither do they keep banging on about the Peterloo Massacre of 1819, in which scores of Englishmen women and children were cut down on St Peter's field near Manchester for daring to assemble to listen to a speech of Radical Orator Henry Hunt.
The Irishman and future Prime-Minister, Wellington made comments supporting the actions of the Yeomanry, and was booed whenever he visited Manchester.
No doubt if this even had just happened to have taken place in Ireland, it would have been seen as yet another example of 'English contempt for the Irish'.

When the Normans took over in 1066, the English language was also suppressed and Norman French, along with church latin, became the official languages of England until the Lancastrian dynysty under Henry Bolingbroke re-introduced English in an official capacity once more.
Irish gaelic, obviously, proved to be less robust when it came to surviving assaults upon it's survival.
The term 'Englishman' was used as a term of abuse by the Norman nobles who had usurped the Anglo-Saxon aristocracy implying stupidity.......
These arrogant Anglo-Norman nobles, many of whom never even bothered to learn the language of their own country, were the ones who initiated the invasions of Ireland begining in the 12th century. So, all that proves is that the Normans were agressive conquerors out to seize other lands so what? It was centuries ago, get over it.

Political leaders were plainly bastards in centuries past, and it wasn't just the Irish who suffered. But by the looks of it, everybody else has to suffer the whinging of certain Irish people who think their ancestors are the only ones bad things have ever happened to.......