Political Crossfire Forums

programmusic · Joined: 22 Apr 2006 Posts: 909

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060916/wl_mideast_afp/vaticanpopeislampalestinianunrestchurch

GAZA CITY (AFP) - Assailants angry at
Pope Benedict XVI's comments on Islam targeted several churches across the Palestinian territories on the second day of attacks directed at the Christian church.

In Gaza City, a group calling itself the Islamic Organization of the Swords of Righteousness claimed responsibility for unleashing a volley of gunfire on the oldest church in the city.

"We carried out this shooting because of the pope's statement, and he must apologise," the caller, who refused to give his name, told AFP Saturday.

The attack came a day after a grenade exploded outside the same church and four days after the pope criticised connections between Islam and violence, particularly with regard to jihad, or "holy war".

In the West Bank town of Nablus, gunmen threw Molotov cocktails at four churches of different denominations, Palestinian security sources told AFP.

In one incident, gunmen opened fire inside an empty Catholic church after the building's entrance door was burnt down, the sources said.

No casualties or damage were reported in the incidents.

The Vatican issued a statement Saturday saying that the pope was "extremely sorry" for the offence his comments had caused.

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Apparently, there was something to what he said.

Rankor and Pissing · Joined: 04 Mar 2006 Posts: 8845

Way to go eh? They continue to prove the 13th century text that was quoted is still true in the 21st century.

ToonArmyIsComing · Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 5888 Location: Ontario

Rankor and Pissing wrote: Way to go eh? They continue to prove the 13th century text that was quoted is still true in the 21st century.

The question is why these ridiculous statements are said by such public figures as the Pope when it is known what type of reaction it is going to provoke among the Muslims. I am not defending the Muslim actions, yet I do not understand the attempts to provoke them.

The Comrade · Joined: 16 Jul 2006 Posts: 11404 Location: Zagreb

what did the pope say that was so bad anyways?

i fail to see how outrageous overeactions are going to prove the pope wrong in his statements.

MoscowMatt · Joined: 16 Sep 2005 Posts: 1458 Location: UK / Hungary

I'm extremely offended by the attacks on the churches. I demand to hear an apology from Muslim leaders! I'm waiting................................ nope still waiting......................well?? :lol:

The words double standards and arrogant spring to mind!!

Plato & Socrates · Joined: 24 Dec 2005 Posts: 1743 Location: London

ToonArmyIsComing wrote: Rankor and Pissing wrote: Way to go eh? They continue to prove the 13th century text that was quoted is still true in the 21st century.

The question is why these ridiculous statements are said by such public figures as the Pope when it is known what type of reaction it is going to provoke among the Muslims. I am not defending the Muslim actions, yet I do not understand the attempts to provoke them.

The Pope is known as ultra conservative, and that is within the circles of Vatican standards. So that alone should make you wary of him. This kind of quote coming from a former member of Hitler youth, should be understood in several contexts. This man is against Turkish membership of the E.U, because according to him, it will change the balance of Europe's historical Christian Judea heritage.

On my time on this forum as a committed atheist, I have always distinguished between radical elements of Judism, Catholic & Christian extremism and their main stream.
To quote biblical text, "he who lives without sin, can cast the first stone" Here is an article, for all those Islamic & Muslim bashers out there..... www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml;jsessionid=FNBM4I1NYFHCHQFIQMFSFFOAVCBQ0IV0?xml=/opinion/2006/09/17/dl1701.xml

the sane voice · Joined: 07 Sep 2006 Posts: 2512

Here is the Book of Judges: "Ye shall make no league with the inhabitants of this land; ye shall throw down their altars" (2:2). And here is the Koran: "Therefore when ye meet those who disbelieve, strike their necks" (47:4). In practice, of course, the followers of the monotheistic faiths do not generally do these things. They understand that their prophets were trying to express ideas that are beyond human imagining.

:lol:

fiction416 · Joined: 02 Sep 2006 Posts: 620 Location: purgatory

the sane voice wrote: Here is the Book of Judges: "Ye shall make no league with the inhabitants of this land; ye shall throw down their altars" (2:2). And here is the Koran: "Therefore when ye meet those who disbelieve, strike their necks" (47:4). In practice, of course, the followers of the monotheistic faiths do not generally do these things. They understand that their prophets were trying to express ideas that are beyond human imagining.

:lol:

Are you a racist against Arabs or Muslims?

You sound like you are racist against Islam, are you?

The Comrade · Joined: 16 Jul 2006 Posts: 11404 Location: Zagreb

fiction416 wrote: the sane voice wrote: Here is the Book of Judges: "Ye shall make no league with the inhabitants of this land; ye shall throw down their altars" (2:2). And here is the Koran: "Therefore when ye meet those who disbelieve, strike their necks" (47:4). In practice, of course, the followers of the monotheistic faiths do not generally do these things. They understand that their prophets were trying to express ideas that are beyond human imagining.

:lol:

Are you a racist against Arabs or Muslims?

You sound like you are racist against Islam, are you?

amazing fiction. it's like you live to go into threads and drag them into flame wars.

mr_happy · Joined: 29 Mar 2006 Posts: 319

I'm waiting for riots all over the Christian world to start. Maybe we can start boycotting all Palestinian items and burn Iranian flags since they are in some way connected to Palestine. Even better, we can start a holocaust cartoon contest.

Seriously though, this is digusting. These actiosn jsut prove the Pope's words as true. Someone, anyone, please show some prominent muslim leader that is speaking out against this.

Oh, and by the way, the Pope took great Pains to assure the crowd he wasn't bashing Islam. I think he deviated from his script two or three times to assure people of this.

the sane voice · Joined: 07 Sep 2006 Posts: 2512

fiction416 wrote: the sane voice wrote: Here is the Book of Judges: "Ye shall make no league with the inhabitants of this land; ye shall throw down their altars" (2:2). And here is the Koran: "Therefore when ye meet those who disbelieve, strike their necks" (47:4). In practice, of course, the followers of the monotheistic faiths do not generally do these things. They understand that their prophets were trying to express ideas that are beyond human imagining.

:lol:

Are you a racist against Arabs or Muslims?

You sound like you are racist against Islam, are you?
you think im a racist i guess- you are trying to "push bottons"?
:lol:

fiction416 · Joined: 02 Sep 2006 Posts: 620 Location: purgatory

the sane voice wrote: fiction416 wrote: the sane voice wrote: Here is the Book of Judges: "Ye shall make no league with the inhabitants of this land; ye shall throw down their altars" (2:2). And here is the Koran: "Therefore when ye meet those who disbelieve, strike their necks" (47:4). In practice, of course, the followers of the monotheistic faiths do not generally do these things. They understand that their prophets were trying to express ideas that are beyond human imagining.

:lol:

Are you a racist against Arabs or Muslims?

You sound like you are racist against Islam, are you?
you think im a racist i guess- you are trying to "push bottons"?
:lol:

No - I'm asking you a simple question.

Are you going to answer it - and clear things up?

Or do you like people thinking you are a potential racist?

(we already know you are an admitted Zionist)

Venom · Joined: 06 Sep 2006 Posts: 807

Fiction
Are do you hate Jews so much that you cannot grasp the topic of discussion?

You have zero problem with Christian churches (many of which do NOT even follow the Pope at all) being burned down.

God forbid that anyone question the actions of people that are Islamic... They are for sure racists if they do so!

Are you ok with people thinking you are racist towards Jewish people?

fiction416 · Joined: 02 Sep 2006 Posts: 620 Location: purgatory

Venom wrote:

Are you ok with people thinking you are racist towards Jewish people?

I'm not - And I'm always happy to clear up any misunderstandings

My family have a proud history of saving countless Jewish lives

mr_happy · Joined: 29 Mar 2006 Posts: 319

"In the seventh conversation edited by Professor Khoury, the emperor touches on the theme of the jihad (holy war). The emperor must have known that surah 2, 256 reads: There is no compulsion in religion. It is one of the suras of the early period, when Mohammed was still powerless and under threat.

But naturally the emperor also knew the instructions, developed later and recorded in the Qur’an, concerning holy war. Without descending to details, such as the difference in treatment accorded to those who have the “Book” and the “infidels,” he turns to his interlocutor somewhat brusquely with the central question on the relationship between religion and violence in general, in these words:

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."

The emperor goes on to explain in detail the reasons why spreading the faith through violence is something unreasonable. Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul.

"God is not pleased by blood, and not acting reasonably is contrary to God's nature. Faith is born of the soul, not the body. Whoever would lead someone to faith needs the ability to speak well and to reason properly, without violence and threats... To convince a reasonable soul, one does not need a strong arm, or weapons of any kind, or any other means of threatening a person with death...."

The decisive statement in this argument against violent conversion is this: not to act in accordance with reason is contrary to God's nature. The editor, Theodore Khoury, observes: "For the emperor, as a Byzantine shaped by Greek philosophy, this statement is self-evident. But for Muslim teaching, God is absolutely transcendent. His will is not bound up with any of our categories, even that of rationality." Here Khoury quotes a work of the noted French Islamist R. Arnaldez, who points out that Ibn Hazn went so far as to state that God is not bound even by his own word, and that nothing would oblige him to reveal the truth to us. Were it God's will, we would even have to practice idolatry"........

"And so I come to my conclusion. This attempt, painted with broad strokes, at a critique of modern reason from within has nothing to do with putting the clock back to the time before the Enlightenment and rejecting the insights of the modern age. The positive aspects of modernity are to be acknowledged unreservedly: we are all grateful for the marvelous possibilities that it has opened up for mankind and for the progress in humanity that has been granted to us. The scientific ethos, moreover, is the will to be obedient to the truth, and, as such, it embodies an attitude which reflects one of the basic tenets of Christianity. The intention here is not one of retrenchment or negative criticism, but of broadening our concept of reason and its application.

While we rejoice in the new possibilities open to humanity, we also see the dangers arising from these possibilities and we must ask ourselves how we can overcome them. We will succeed in doing so only if reason and faith come together in a new way, if we overcome the self-imposed limitation of reason to the empirically verifiable, and if we once more disclose its vast horizons. In this sense theology rightly belongs in the university and within the wide-ranging dialogue of sciences, not merely as a historical discipline and one of the human sciences, but precisely as theology, as inquiry into the rationality of faith."

http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=46474

^Pope's exact words

wow such utter anti-islamic hatred. My God, those Christians deserve it.

Venom · Joined: 06 Sep 2006 Posts: 807

Quote: My family have a proud history of saving countless Jewish lives
Are you German? Because by your posts on this board I could see your idea of saving the Jews meaning helping them in your own way....

Mr Happy
Quote: wow such utter anti-islamic hatred. My God, those Christians deserve it.
Don't you think it's funny how Islamic leaders can call for the murder of Christians and Jews yet you do not see Jews and Christians around the world burning down their places of worship.

After 9/11 there was violence against middle eastern people in the United States but guess the President of the United States, religious leaders (both Jewish and Christians) did? They spoke out against this violence.

Of course then people like you and I must deal with the Fictions of the world whom see Islamic leaders reactions as perfectly fine.

lilwolf · Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 12031 Location: idaho

I see nothing different in the way the loonies are behaving today any more than they are and have been behaving for the last what 500 to 700 years.

Nothing changes, except the idiots that want to cause it all. in this case the islamic loonies that have bastardized islam and turned it into something that is looked at with almost disgust across the world.

To attack churce is clearly another way of showing that they are savage animals. Just as bad as killing a nun.
No difference in the interpretaion of animalistic behavior among animals.

fiction416 · Joined: 02 Sep 2006 Posts: 620 Location: purgatory

Venom wrote:
Are you German? Because by your posts on this board I could see your idea of saving the Jews meaning helping them in your own way....

Not German, sorry.

But since you have no respect for the acts of my family, I will keep the description at a minimum; My family smuggled Jews to safety from teh Nazi's in Eastern Europe. In turn, my family was captured & sent to concentration camps, from which during an escape attempt, one of my family members went into labour, giving birth in a sewer & being captured by the Nazi's... it goes on & gets pretty ugly, in terms of details that my family suffered, because they helped Jews survive the holocaust.

Mock me all you like, but it's the truth - there could be countless Israeli families that are alive today because of the acts of my family. At the very least, there are countless Jews that are alive because of my family.

The Comrade · Joined: 16 Jul 2006 Posts: 11404 Location: Zagreb

fiction416 wrote: Venom wrote:
Are you German? Because by your posts on this board I could see your idea of saving the Jews meaning helping them in your own way....

Not German, sorry.

But since you have no respect for the acts of my family, I will keep the description at a minimum; My family smuggled Jews to safety from teh Nazi's in Eastern Europe. In turn, my family was captured & sent to concentration camps, from which during an escape attempt, one of my family members went into labour, giving birth in a sewer & being captured by the Nazi's... it goes on & gets pretty ugly, in terms of details that my family suffered, because they helped Jews survive the holocaust.

Mock me all you like, but it's the truth - there could be countless Israeli families that are alive today because of the acts of my family. At the very least, there are countless Jews that are alive because of my family.

delusions of grandure i see.

because your family(generations back) saved jews, it means you cannot be racist towards them?

because your family saved jews, does it you special protection from the term of racism?