Political Crossfire Forums

XxMorningStarxX · Joined: 22 Oct 2005 Posts: 287 Location: XxUndIsCloSedxX

Sounds possible in the future, considering Iran doesn't seem to want to stop on their way to nuclearization. If the American public WOULD have supported the war in Iraq had hussein actually had WMDs, then why wouldn't they support to U.S. going to war with Iran if Iran is blatantly pursuing nuclear interests?

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/09/17/coverstory.tm.iran.tm/index.html

Looks a little messy if it actually happens

we'd have pockets of troops around the world then, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan.

The article mentions airstrikes but goes no further..

fiction416 · Joined: 02 Sep 2006 Posts: 620 Location: purgatory

Question:

1a) How many countries has Iran Invaded?
1b) How many countries has teh USA invaded?

2a) How many times has Iran used a nuclear weapon upon a civilian population?
2b) How many times has the USA used a nuclear weapon upon a civilian population?

3) Which Christian world leader - who says God talks to him - has claimed; "you are either with us, or you are against us"

So, which country sounds like more of a threat to the world community?

XxMorningStarxX · Joined: 22 Oct 2005 Posts: 287 Location: XxUndIsCloSedxX

fiction416 wrote: Question:

1a) How many countries has Iran Invaded?
1b) How many countries has teh USA invaded?

2a) How many times has Iran used a nuclear weapon upon a civilian population?
2b) How many times has the USA used a nuclear weapon upon a civilian population?

3) Which Christian world leader - who says God talks to him - has claimed; "you are either with us, or you are against us"

So, which country sounds like more of a threat to the world community?

Your rhetorical questions (except for the last one) are completely unfair and out of context. if you're referring to the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, we can argue about that later- most people (around the world) in allied nations, in hindsight to WWII, find the bombings justified because it would have saved millions of japanese and american lives.

if we had not bombed Japan, Japan would have fought to the death and would no doubt have committed civilians beyond conscription age to fight in their fanatic (and unjustified) war of defense

The fact is, Iran has extremely radical tendencies, and they will not hesitate to aid terrorist organizations (as they have shown to be capable of doing in the past). Do YOU want that to happen?

Iran has serious humn rights issues, in the Iraq Iran war of 1988, Iran used masses of children in human waves, tied to ropes, to charge at the professoinal Iraqi army. How does that sound to you?

The United States has a responsibility around the world because of their power, we may have faults etc. but keep in mind that so far in history, IMO the U.S. has been among the most noble (or THE most noble) Hyperpower.

If Iran was in the position of the U.S. they would have completely forced the world into radical Islam already. Luckily they haven't found the guts to do anything of the sort because they are too weak.

You cn't look at it in terms of what the U.S. HAS done and compre it with Iran, becuse obviously Iran just doesn't have the capacity to operate at the same level as the U.S. in the past, BUT, if iran COULD, they would do much much worse.

fiction416 · Joined: 02 Sep 2006 Posts: 620 Location: purgatory

XxMorningStarxX wrote:
Your rhetorical questions (except for the last one) are completely unfair and out of context.

Not really, they are questions everyone should be asking

XxMorningStarxX wrote:

if we had not bombed Japan, Japan would have fought to the death and would no doubt have committed civilians beyond conscription age to fight in their fanatic (and unjustified) war of defense

Oh, and this is a FACT

?

XxMorningStarxX wrote: The fact is, Iran has extremely radical tendencies, and they will not hesitate to aid terrorist organizations (as they have shown to be capable of doing in the past).

So does the USA, have radical tendencies, towards the Middle East & anyone who they consider a 'threat'. That is also a fact.

XxMorningStarxX wrote: Iran has serious humn rights issues,

So does teh USA:

Racial profiling

Treatment of combatants

Etc...

XxMorningStarxX wrote: in the Iraq Iran war of 1988, Iran used masses of children in human waves, tied to ropes, to charge at the professoinal Iraqi army. How does that sound to you?

It sounds like I would like a link.

XxMorningStarxX wrote:
If Iran was in the position of the U.S. they would have completely forced the world into radical Islam already.

LOL is this another Fact of yours?

dreamz · Joined: 17 Sep 2006 Posts: 50 Location: sunny England

what, if's but's and maybe's

Ssushi · Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 6380

The USA simply doesn't have the military manpower or money or political backing to invade Iran atm. Its that simple.

XxMorningStarxX · Joined: 22 Oct 2005 Posts: 287 Location: XxUndIsCloSedxX

fiction416 wrote: XxMorningStarxX wrote:
Your rhetorical questions (except for the last one) are completely unfair and out of context.

Not really, they are questions everyone should be asking

XxMorningStarxX wrote:

if we had not bombed Japan, Japan would have fought to the death and would no doubt have committed civilians beyond conscription age to fight in their fanatic (and unjustified) war of defense

Oh, and this is a FACT

?

XxMorningStarxX wrote: The fact is, Iran has extremely radical tendencies, and they will not hesitate to aid terrorist organizations (as they have shown to be capable of doing in the past).

So does the USA, have radical tendencies, towards the Middle East & anyone who they consider a 'threat'. That is also a fact.

XxMorningStarxX wrote: Iran has serious humn rights issues,

So does teh USA:

Racial profiling

Treatment of combatants

Etc...

XxMorningStarxX wrote: in the Iraq Iran war of 1988, Iran used masses of children in human waves, tied to ropes, to charge at the professoinal Iraqi army. How does that sound to you?

It sounds like I would like a link.

XxMorningStarxX wrote:
If Iran was in the position of the U.S. they would have completely forced the world into radical Islam already.

LOL is this another Fact of yours?

http://www.iranchamber.com/history/iran_iraq_war/iran_iraq_war2.php

read for yourself. CTRL + F = Human wave

its all there

and yes those things are facts. Japan would have fought to the death (obviously) look at how they bombed pearl harbor, Japan made it blatantly clear that they will "never surrender" and they held this true for the whole war up until the atomic bombing.

read on the history of Iran. Maybe if you read it it will open your mind and make you less ignorant to the fact that Iran's policies are a lot less pretty.

LOL HUMAN RIGHT VIOLATIONS IN THE U.S. ? LOL

ROFL RACIAL PROFILING?

HOW DOES THAT COMPARE TO MASS MURDER? LOL OR SENDING YOUR CHILDREN IN WAVES TO FIGHT A WAR. LOL

LOL

as far as treatment of combatants goes, i'm pretty sure Iran will not hesistate to try anything kinky seing how they treated their own soldiers quite badly.

dreamz · Joined: 17 Sep 2006 Posts: 50 Location: sunny England

Ssushi wrote: The USA simply doesn't have the military manpower or money or political backing to invade Iran atm. Its that simple.

lilwolf · Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 12561 Location: idaho

Simple if they cross the line. Who needs manpower to stop them. They want a nuke...give them, one or two. End of problem. But you gotta make sure they have crossed the line before you graciously oblige.

[img]
[/img]

dreamz · Joined: 17 Sep 2006 Posts: 50 Location: sunny England

lilwolf wrote: Simple if they cross the line. Who needs manpower to stop them. They want a nuke...give them, one or two. End of problem. But you gotta make sure they have crossed the line before you graciously oblige.

in your opinion what does crossing the line entail?

XxMorningStarxX · Joined: 22 Oct 2005 Posts: 287 Location: XxUndIsCloSedxX

Not convinced yet?

heres more

http://www.crimesofwar.org/thebook/iran-iraq-war.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq-Iran_War

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/iran-iraq.htm

http://www.iranvision.com/iraniraqwar.html

http://www.irandefence.net/showthread.php?t=445

really. this was too easy for me- disproving your foolish claims that is. You need only to go on Yahoo or Google and type "Iran Iraq War" the fact that they used human waves is detailed in every article about the war

really after you have said this, i can't take you seriously anymore. You just sound like one of those people who will do anything to argue against the United States regardless of what the second party is like, just for the sake of being controversial.

for 1) you should really get up to date on your history

2) you should really visit some foreign countries (i've been to East Germany (1989) the Peoples' Republic of China, Iraq) and see for yourself that compared to these countries, it is undeniable that the U.S. has superior human rights.

LOL RACIAL PROFILING.... LOL....

man ur sad.

XxMorningStarxX · Joined: 22 Oct 2005 Posts: 287 Location: XxUndIsCloSedxX

lilwolf wrote: Simple if they cross the line. Who needs manpower to stop them. They want a nuke...give them, one or two. End of problem. But you gotta make sure they have crossed the line before you graciously oblige.

[img]
[/img]

Yeh i know where you're coming from

Well the way i used to think about it was yeah lets let them get a nuke or two. If they bomb us then it would make our war even MORE justified wouldn't it?

But the point is, you know how people are. If we actually do that and disaster happens, people will THEN start playing the blame game on not only the Iranian government, but on our own government for not "preventing Iran getting nukes" as well.

First people say "well let them have a nuke!", and the gov't obliges. Then when an attack happens people are like "OMG U BUREACRATS, WHY DIDN'T U STOP EM?"

XxMorningStarxX · Joined: 22 Oct 2005 Posts: 287 Location: XxUndIsCloSedxX

dreamz wrote: lilwolf wrote: Simple if they cross the line. Who needs manpower to stop them. They want a nuke...give them, one or two. End of problem. But you gotta make sure they have crossed the line before you graciously oblige.

in your opinion what does crossing the line entail?

an attack? of course.

dreamz · Joined: 17 Sep 2006 Posts: 50 Location: sunny England

XxMorningStarxX wrote: dreamz wrote: lilwolf wrote: Simple if they cross the line. Who needs manpower to stop them. They want a nuke...give them, one or two. End of problem. But you gotta make sure they have crossed the line before you graciously oblige.

in your opinion what does crossing the line entail?

an attack? of course.

on who?

lilwolf · Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 12561 Location: idaho

XxMorningStarxX wrote: lilwolf wrote: Simple if they cross the line. Who needs manpower to stop them. They want a nuke...give them, one or two. End of problem. But you gotta make sure they have crossed the line before you graciously oblige.

[img]
[/img]

Yeh i know where you're coming from

Well the way i used to think about it was yeah lets let them get a nuke or two. If they bomb us then it would make our war even MORE justified wouldn't it?

But the point is, you know how people are. If we actually do that and disaster happens, people will THEN start playing the blame game on not only the Iranian government, but on our own government for not "preventing Iran getting nukes" as well.

First people say "well let them have a nuke!", and the gov't obliges. Then when an attack happens people are like "OMG U BUREACRATS, WHY DIDN'T U STOP EM?"

I am not saying give them a couple of nukes as I think you thought. I am saying that if they crossed the line give them one like in the photo.

Dreamz: By crossing the line I am referring to this. If they get their hands on a nuke weapon they are going to use it. Iran is a nation that is led by a looney and a bunch of isalmic bozos that have bastardized their religion. These people make the nation dangerous and unstable. They will cross the line and when they do the blood of millions will be on the hands of their leaders. It is my hope that either of the two things will happen here.
1. They abandon their quest for the time being until they prove to the world they are non hostile...which they cannot do.

2. The people of Iran take control of their nation and lead it peacefully into the next generation away from fanatics and idiotic leaders.

You can bet that Israel is not going to stand by and allow this, and any nation that allows it is asking for trouble in the long run. Now if they cross the line with hostile intent I am 100% in favor of taking them off the map and making a glow in the dark spot. I have no qualms about taking them down if it came to that. I hope it does not but if it gets to that point, then end it once and for all.

fiction416 · Joined: 02 Sep 2006 Posts: 620 Location: purgatory

XxMorningStarxX wrote:
and yes those things are facts. Japan would have fought to the death (obviously) look at how they bombed pearl harbor, Japan made it blatantly clear that they will "never surrender" and they held this true for the whole war up until the atomic bombing.

No, that is not fact, it is speculation. You understand the difference between the two, right?

XxMorningStarxX wrote: read on the history of Iran. Maybe if you read it it will open your mind and make you less ignorant to the fact that Iran's policies are a lot less pretty.

I read great, thanks.

Thru reading, I have learned that in comparison to the USA's history, Iran does not look nowhere near as bad.

Another question for you:

Out of the two countries, which has committed a genocide in attempting killing off an entire race & was successful in killing off tribes from that race, simply to conquer a land of "savages"?

XxMorningStarxX wrote: LOL HUMAN RIGHT VIOLATIONS IN THE U.S. ? LOL

Well, I never said in the US, but my example of the Native American Genocide stands, there is also the proud US histroy with racism, which is still ongoing...

There is also this

And this

XxMorningStarxX wrote: ROFL RACIAL PROFILING?

Click here

XxMorningStarxX wrote: HOW DOES THAT COMPARE TO MASS MURDER? LOL OR SENDING YOUR CHILDREN IN WAVES TO FIGHT A WAR. LOL

Are you suggesting that to fight terrorist, we should indeed act like terrorists?

XxMorningStarxX wrote: as far as treatment of combatants goes, i'm pretty sure Iran will not hesistate to try anything kinky seing how they treated their own soldiers quite badly.

How does Iran treat their soldiers badly?

Link?

XxMorningStarxX · Joined: 22 Oct 2005 Posts: 287 Location: XxUndIsCloSedxX

fiction416 wrote: XxMorningStarxX wrote:
and yes those things are facts. Japan would have fought to the death (obviously) look at how they bombed pearl harbor, Japan made it blatantly clear that they will "never surrender" and they held this true for the whole war up until the atomic bombing.

No, that is not fact, it is speculation. You understand the difference between the two, right?

XxMorningStarxX wrote: read on the history of Iran. Maybe if you read it it will open your mind and make you less ignorant to the fact that Iran's policies are a lot less pretty.

I read great, thanks.

Thru reading, I have learned that in comparison to the USA's history, Iran does not look nowhere near as bad.

Another question for you:

Out of the two countries, which has committed a genocide in attempting killing off an entire race & was successful in killing off tribes from that race, simply to conquer a land of "savages"?

XxMorningStarxX wrote: LOL HUMAN RIGHT VIOLATIONS IN THE U.S. ? LOL

Well, I never said in the US, but my example of the Native American Genocide stands, there is also the proud US histroy with racism, which is still ongoing...

There is also this

And this

XxMorningStarxX wrote: ROFL RACIAL PROFILING?

Click here

XxMorningStarxX wrote: HOW DOES THAT COMPARE TO MASS MURDER? LOL OR SENDING YOUR CHILDREN IN WAVES TO FIGHT A WAR. LOL

Are you suggesting that to fight terrorist, we should indeed act like terrorists?

XxMorningStarxX wrote: as far as treatment of combatants goes, i'm pretty sure Iran will not hesistate to try anything kinky seing how they treated their own soldiers quite badly.

How does Iran treat their soldiers badly?

Link?

good job completely ignoring the important points... lol

so you haven't responded to the child soldier thing?

and now you bring up the the question on how iran treats their soldiers badly

i can bet that as soon as i pull off 30 new sources for those, you will just move on to another retarded point

no thnks bud, you are laughable and i am done with you.

ClubbedtoDeath · Joined: 17 Apr 2006 Posts: 34

lilwolf wrote: XxMorningStarxX wrote: lilwolf wrote: Simple if they cross the line. Who needs manpower to stop them. They want a nuke...give them, one or two. End of problem. But you gotta make sure they have crossed the line before you graciously oblige.

[img]
[/img]

Yeh i know where you're coming from

Well the way i used to think about it was yeah lets let them get a nuke or two. If they bomb us then it would make our war even MORE justified wouldn't it?

But the point is, you know how people are. If we actually do that and disaster happens, people will THEN start playing the blame game on not only the Iranian government, but on our own government for not "preventing Iran getting nukes" as well.

First people say "well let them have a nuke!", and the gov't obliges. Then when an attack happens people are like "OMG U BUREACRATS, WHY DIDN'T U STOP EM?"

I am not saying give them a couple of nukes as I think you thought. I am saying that if they crossed the line give them one like in the photo.

Dreamz: By crossing the line I am referring to this. If they get their hands on a nuke weapon they are going to use it. Iran is a nation that is led by a looney and a bunch of isalmic bozos that have bastardized their religion. These people make the nation dangerous and unstable. They will cross the line and when they do the blood of millions will be on the hands of their leaders. It is my hope that either of the two things will happen here.
1. They abandon their quest for the time being until they prove to the world they are non hostile...which they cannot do.

2. The people of Iran take control of their nation and lead it peacefully into the next generation away from fanatics and idiotic leaders.

You can bet that Israel is not going to stand by and allow this, and any nation that allows it is asking for trouble in the long run. Now if they cross the line with hostile intent I am 100% in favor of taking them off the map and making a glow in the dark spot. I have no qualms about taking them down if it came to that. I hope it does not but if it gets to that point, then end it once and for all.

Amen!!!! I might be liberal but since all my relatives r from Israel well. GO ISRAEL!!!!!

ClubbedtoDeath · Joined: 17 Apr 2006 Posts: 34

fiction416 wrote: XxMorningStarxX wrote:
and yes those things are facts. Japan would have fought to the death (obviously) look at how they bombed pearl harbor, Japan made it blatantly clear that they will "never surrender" and they held this true for the whole war up until the atomic bombing.

No, that is not fact, it is speculation. You understand the difference between the two, right?

XxMorningStarxX wrote: read on the history of Iran. Maybe if you read it it will open your mind and make you less ignorant to the fact that Iran's policies are a lot less pretty.

I read great, thanks.

Thru reading, I have learned that in comparison to the USA's history, Iran does not look nowhere near as bad.

Another question for you:

Out of the two countries, which has committed a genocide in attempting killing off an entire race & was successful in killing off tribes from that race, simply to conquer a land of "savages"?

XxMorningStarxX wrote: LOL HUMAN RIGHT VIOLATIONS IN THE U.S. ? LOL

Well, I never said in the US, but my example of the Native American Genocide stands, there is also the proud US histroy with racism, which is still ongoing...

There is also this

And this

XxMorningStarxX wrote: ROFL RACIAL PROFILING?

Click here

XxMorningStarxX wrote: HOW DOES THAT COMPARE TO MASS MURDER? LOL OR SENDING YOUR CHILDREN IN WAVES TO FIGHT A WAR. LOL

Are you suggesting that to fight terrorist, we should indeed act like terrorists?

XxMorningStarxX wrote: as far as treatment of combatants goes, i'm pretty sure Iran will not hesistate to try anything kinky seing how they treated their own soldiers quite badly.

How does Iran treat their soldiers badly?

Link?

I don't think hez suggestin that we fite like terrorist. He's only suggesting that your idea that Iran has less human rights issues than the U.S. is just complete B.S. - whiich it iz

By the way i have friends from Iran, two of which are refugees- they always tell me about how insane the Iranian gov't is (like remember when the president called to move Israel to alaska? lmfao)

I live in Toronto, Canada, and public sentiment isn't that great here for the U.S., but the arguments that you made against your own country are a bit out of wack.

Really dude, get your facts, and your head, together.

fiction416 · Joined: 02 Sep 2006 Posts: 620 Location: purgatory

XxMorningStarxX wrote: [

good job completely ignoring the important points... lol

so you haven't responded to the child soldier thing?

Maybe because I donot disagree with those points?

but really, i don't have time to look over your links at the moment, but i will in a few, thanks for giving them all!

XxMorningStarxX wrote: and now you bring up the the question on how iran treats their soldiers badly

I just saw your toher post now, sorry.. I still haven't read everything you provided

patience is a virtue

XxMorningStarxX wrote: i can bet that as soon as i pull off 30 new sources for those, you will just move on to another retarded point

Sure, I love reading, bring it on.

XxMorningStarxX wrote: no thnks bud, you are laughable and i am done with you.

Why am I laughable? Because I asked some reasonable & objective questions?

Critical thinking is not your strong point, I suppose?

Think outside the box much?