Political Crossfire Forums

prometeus · Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:51 pm Post subject:

I almost misunderestimated you... :clap:

shery · Joined: 12 Oct 2006 Posts: 16 Location: Egypt

Quote: I am first to acknowledge that Islam needs to reform.

We can reform your brain first before you try to touch our religion

Have any one asked you to be muslim or to convert to islam ?
the muslim in europe how do they bother you ?
they living just as you ,, and do not try to apply their religion on YOU

If you hate islam that much just dont communicate with them
No one tried to force you or to conveince you to convert to islam

ISLAM WILL NEVER BE REFORMED

Or do you think that islam could be reformed as christianity to allow gays to get married and to preach for gays to have rights

As far as I know that even your book didnt allows gays to get married

But it seems you always like to REFORM the religion in a way that fit the way of life that you want ( the satanic life )

Instead of trying to go forward and to upgrade our lifes

we are going back to the dark ages when fornication and gays were fun
and everyone refused god law

the civilization isnt with porn and fornication and gays rights

CIvilization is when people can get along together and everyone apply his religion in a right away ( NOT REFORMED TO ALLOW SIN )

Judisam and christianity will be ashamed from you at the afterlife
Cuz if you really respect god you wouldnt lie and say that god loves gays !

and by the way most of western dont even believe in god or even any religion

So why bothering to talk about islam ... leave islam alone !

Quote: Has a born and raised atheist, I believe that 99% of religions are f**ked to begin with. The more conservative strains of Islam and their treatment of women in the modern world, is nothing short of repressive and backwards in my own opinion.

None of your business how we are treated man
Look lOok LOOk who is talking
The people who are making the woman flesh very cheap open her legs and take pictures for her naked .... we back again to the dark ages
when woman was a cheap meat
and now again the cheapest thing you can get In everywhere is woman

IS that the woman rights you are talking about ?

What about the slavery for woman in sex ? all the woman that been abused in asia and russia by the sex trader

Yes yes yes you have really woman rights in western country !

Quote: But lets hold on a minute here. I grew up in Stamford Hill from 1980, which is hardcore Orthodox Jewry. My partner(since 1990) is a mitzvah (unorthadox) as are my kids. Are you trying to palm off to me, that the repression of women is only a Islamic tradition? What role do Jewish Orthodox women play in there communities? Without being offensive, I could argue that they are no more than breeding chambers to bear children. Has for the role in the Synagogue? Please don't even make me laugh at that one. As a Brit I could argue at the practice of married women having to cut off there hair, as utterly repressive. To me that is just has sad as the Burka or the Hijab. I am sure a counter arguement could be made for that practice to be seen as tradition Lets debate about Orthodox Jewery assimilation in there local community. :lol: That's the biggest joke going. Its has bad in Stamford Hill, as the Muslims in Bradford. There are many Jews whos grasp of English is non-esistant, who have lived here for most of there lives. Wheres the public outrage at that group? There is absolutely none. The only contact and interaction they make in general, is only if it is commerce based, and even then generally as a last resort, if they cant find a Jewish provider, of the service they need.
Would you want to talk about Orthodox women, who would like to date outside of the orthodoxy circle? If it happens, there is absolutely NO coming back in, and you know what I mean. Orthodox Jewish women, are just slightly better off in my opinion. Stop bashing other religions without looking at your own first.

( jew says we thank you god for being jew man and not being a woman ) !!!!

But let me ask you ,, what did christians did as woman rights ?
to make woman lives under fornication without marriage is that woman rights
Or this is man rights to f**k and run from woman ,,
WOman rights that she lives in sin ? is that the communtie you want to apply in middle east

THANK YOU SO MUCH ,, KEEP YOUR IDEOLOGY AND ANTICHRIST RELIGION FOR YOURSELF ! we dont need it

Just leave us alone go awayyyyyyyyy

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 15867 Location: On Earth

prometeus wrote: Plato & Socrates wrote: If you can shown me any type of evidence and pattern, of Islamic scholars/Imams, preaching this type of bile and hate pre 1945, just one tenth of how much I see today. Then I'll join you and agree that Islam is incompatible, and for f**k sake, please don't source the Jewish virtual library.

"Allah's damnation be on the Jews and the Christians who made the graves of their prophets objects of worship."

I'll let you figure who is being quoted...

Do you even know what it means? It means that God's damnation is on the Jews and Christians who pray to these prophets. As a Muslim, Christian, or Jew, the only One worthy of praise is God. You should know better.

Tepic · Joined: 05 May 2006 Posts: 1453

shery wrote: What about the slavery for woman in sex ? all the woman that been abused in asia and russia by the sex trader

Yes yes yes you have really woman rights in western country !
Asia and Russia are in the West? :think:

slitedeviance · Joined: 02 Sep 2006 Posts: 1507

shery wrote: So why bothering to talk about islam ... leave islam alone !

Take a read through the other threads, I've learned far more about Islam on these threads than anywhere else, and I know other people have said that as well. This website is here so that people can freely talk about subjects which interest them.

You will find some people on here who make stupid remarks about Islam and Muslims because they do not understand Islam. Would you prefer it if no discussion took place, and the people in the West who post on here carried on without any chance of learning?

shery · Joined: 12 Oct 2006 Posts: 16 Location: Egypt

Tepic wrote: shery wrote: What about the slavery for woman in sex ? all the woman that been abused in asia and russia by the sex trader

Yes yes yes you have really woman rights in western country !
Asia and Russia are in the West? :think:

Asia is Asia

and Russia part of it in europe ! so it western yes !

Beside lets not talk about Asia and russia

USA all that exist in USA too ... and europe as well ....

shery · Joined: 12 Oct 2006 Posts: 16 Location: Egypt

slitedeviance wrote: shery wrote: So why bothering to talk about islam ... leave islam alone !

Take a read through the other threads, I've learned far more about Islam on these threads than anywhere else, and I know other people have said that as well. This website is here so that people can freely talk about subjects which interest them.

You will find some people on here who make stupid remarks about Islam and Muslims because they do not understand Islam. Would you prefer it if no discussion took place, and the people in the West who post on here carried on without any chance of learning?

Leave us alone means
Leave our countries alone

I didnt mean discussion ......
I want them to leave from our countries cuz they have done nothing but death .

slitedeviance · Joined: 02 Sep 2006 Posts: 1507

shery wrote: I want them to leave from our countries cuz they have done nothing but death .

They're expert in that, I can't disagree.

Venom · Joined: 06 Sep 2006 Posts: 807

Quote: We can reform your brain first before you try to touch our religion
:shock:
How dare you question Islam or even voice any negative opinion!!!! OFF WITH HIS HEAD!!!!

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 15867 Location: On Earth

slitedeviance wrote: shery wrote: I want them to leave from our countries cuz they have done nothing but death .

They're expert in that, I can't disagree.

Neither can I. And by this, I mean the governments. I think it's best that interventionism should be put to a complete full stop.

superskippy · Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 8245 Location: Petah Tikva

Quote: ISLAM WILL NEVER BE REFORMED

Islam has already been reformed and changed many times over the centuries. Islam is a very young religion and it shall probably change further still as time goes on before a more constant path emerges for a while and even then change and upheavel is common in most religions especially those that are young.

Quote: Judisam and christianity will be ashamed from you at the afterlife
Cuz if you really respect god you wouldnt lie and say that god loves gays !

and by the way most of western dont even believe in god or even any religion

It depends country to country I beleive the highest is 12%-15% of the population. I think anyone who is an atheist is a fool but I also beleive that if they uphold the basic principles of God and live a good life with kindness to thy fellow man and doing good deeds that God with all his kindness and wisdom would not eternally condemn this man.

Quote: So why bothering to talk about islam ... leave islam alone !

We could also say why doesnt Islam leave the world alone? You have preached as a victim for quite a while and have begged that we leave Islam and the Islamic world alone but it is not a one way street.

Quote: What about the slavery for woman in sex ? all the woman that been abused in asia and russia by the sex trader

Are you so naieve as to really think that there isnt an underground sex trade in the Arab world and that it belongs soley to the sphere of China and Russia? It is a problam that effects the world, it doesnt simply pass over the Arab world.

Quote: Yes yes yes you have really woman rights in western country

Yes indeed, something many Islamic nations such as Saudi Arabia lack.

Quote: But let me ask you ,, what did christians did as woman rights ?

In the Western World woman have become world leaders, members of government, business owners, soldiers, policemen, equal citizens, voters, and everything a man can be. It is not something that can be equaled in the Arab world in this day.

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 15867 Location: On Earth

superskippy wrote: We could also say why doesnt Islam leave the world alone? You have preached as a victim for quite a while and have begged that we leave Islam and the Islamic world alone but it is not a one way street.

I agree with this, but sherry is probably alluding to the notion that because the West does not leave "Islam" alone, "Islam" doesn't leave the world alone.

Quote: Yes indeed, something many Islamic nations such as Saudi Arabia lack.

I hate to agree with this, but I do. However, while Saudi Arabia is making slow reform into guaranteeing more women's rights, other nations are indeed progressing in the M.E. Jordan is one of them.

superskippy · Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 8245 Location: Petah Tikva

Indeed and again I hate to ever make it about Islam. I look at it often from a perspective of a young religion that is always being in small ways shaped by the generations that grow up around it. It is young and thus malleable and though the core tenents remain the same facets of Islam do change. And as longevity increases so do things begin to settle down and eventually the perhaps then unwanted practices are tossed out, many ancient christien church tenents were slowly weeded out over the years. I think we are starting to see the same with Islam as the Islamic nations slowly begin to reform it's just that as a younger faith the process is thus slower.

But that is a highly philisophical viewpoint and one that can be hotly contested.

Varyag · Joined: 17 Aug 2006 Posts: 397 Location: Melos

shery wrote: We can reform your brain first before you try to touch our religion

Nobody actually wants to reform Islam, its beyond reformation and will destroy itself eventually, my concern is keeping muslims out of Europe.

Quote: Have any one asked you to be muslim or to convert to islam ?
the muslim in europe how do they bother you ?
they living just as you ,, and do not try to apply their religion on YOU

Crime, 70% of France's prison population is muslim, welfare dependancy, juvenile delinquency and terrorism. Also many of these people do try quite unsuccessfuly to apply your uncivilized, barbarian religion to others who have no intrest in sharing in your barbarism.

In any case I would have no problems with muslims whatesoever if none of them were in Europe or the West.

Quote: If you hate islam that much just dont communicate with them
No one tried to force you or to conveince you to convert to islam

Its been tried many times in many different ways, but you have been slaughered everytime and thats why you're all bitter. Muslim society will always be degenerate, uncreative and uncivilized, and thats the root of muslim rage, jealousy.

Quote: ISLAM WILL NEVER BE REFORMED

I dont see how you can reform history, your prophet was a pedophile, promises the violation of young boys in heaven and your so called "holy book" is one of the worlds best collections of contradictions.

Quote: Or do you think that islam could be reformed as christianity to allow gays to get married and to preach for gays to have rights

Nobody has really reformed christianity, the christian position on gays is as it has always been, its the non christians of society who have done this. I don't like gays, neither do most christians, but at the moment we wont challenge the social concesus that exists, that is all.

Quote: As far as I know that even your book didnt allows gays to get married

It sure didn't, and to my knowledge no gay marriage has ever been ordained in a proper christian church, just by some government secularists.

Quote: But it seems you always like to REFORM the religion in a way that fit the way of life that you want (the satanic life)

Nobody is reforming anything, and by the way, the instance of homosexuality is higher in muslim societies than many others. Any idea why?

Quote: we are going back to the dark ages when fornication and gays were fun
and everyone refused god law

the civilization isnt with porn and fornication and gays rights

Or as we call it, 700AD till present in every islamic society. Such hypocricy.

Quote: Civilization is when people can get along together and everyone apply his religion in a right away ( NOT REFORMED TO ALLOW SIN )

Agreed.

Quote: Judisam and christianity will be ashamed from you at the afterlife
Cuz if you really respect god you wouldnt lie and say that god loves gays!

We don't, gays who do not repent go to hell, simple.

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Leviticus 20:13. "Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them." Romans 1:32.

And that by the way is from a real holy book, rather than your made up one of fantastic stories of pedophilia and rewards of young boys in heaven

Quote: So why bothering to talk about islam ... leave islam alone !

Becuase for some reasons these people cant keep out of my country.

Quote: None of your business how we are treated man
Look lOok LOOk who is talking
The people who are making the woman flesh very cheap open her legs and take pictures for her naked .... we back again to the dark ages
when woman was a cheap meat
and now again the cheapest thing you can get In everywhere is woman

Yep, but to be fair its their choice to live with this dishonor, nobody makes their decisions for them.

Quote: IS that the woman rights you are talking about

Yes he is, what can you do, secualar progressive brainwashing.

Quote: What about the slavery for woman in sex ? all the woman that been abused in asia and russia by the sex trader

Yes yes yes you have really woman rights in western country !

Thats actually mostly inaccurate, the female sex trade is a worldwide problem, including the ME.

slitedeviance · Joined: 02 Sep 2006 Posts: 1507

Quote: And that by the way is from a real holy book, rather than your made up one of
Sorry dude, but your Holy Book is made up as well...

Still at least you both dislike Gays!

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 15867 Location: On Earth

Varyag wrote: Nobody actually wants to reform Islam, its beyond reformation and will destroy itself eventually, my concern is keeping muslims out of Europe.

Islam doesn't need reformation. It just needs to be applied correctly... that's all.

Whether it will "destroy" itself is different. Hell will freeze over before Islam dies out.

Quote: Crime, 70% of France's prison population is muslim, welfare dependancy, juvenile delinquency and terrorism. Also many of these people do try quite unsuccessfuly to apply your uncivilized, barbarian religion to others who have no intrest in sharing in your barbarism.

In any case I would have no problems with muslims whatesoever if none of them were in Europe or the West.

No one's listening to you either, Varyag. Muslims have no intent on forcing others to convert. They just want to live in peace. You can point out crime by these delinquents, but that's just what they are: delinquents. Among them are Christians and Jews and Hindus and others, EVEN FRENCH PEOPLE. So, take this nonsense about associating my religion with such inferior qualities and throw it in the dustbin. There is NO PROOF that Islam encourages such behavior.

Quote: Its been tried many times in many different ways, but you have been slaughered everytime and thats why you're all bitter. Muslim society will always be degenerate, uncreative and uncivilized, and thats the root of muslim rage, jealousy.

Nah, you're just too blind to look at what the Western powers have done to Muslims in the past, and how Muslims seriously brought about a better change in the past by bringing forth an Empire that rivalled the intolerance of the Crusaders in its tolerance and civilization. I could make a racist comment like you did and say that the crusaders were swinging from trees when the Arab Muslims and Jews brought forth new innovations in Maths and Philosophy, but then again, I'm not a bigot.

Quote: I dont see how you can reform history, your prophet was a pedophile, promises the violation of young boys in heaven and your so called "holy book" is one of the worlds best collections of contradictions.

Contradictions because you believe them to be contradictions. You don't know how to read the Koran and understand it at the same time, apparently.

Quote: Nobody is reforming anything, and by the way, the instance of homosexuality is higher in muslim societies than many others. Any idea why?

Probably because homosexuality is looked down upon in Islam?

Quote: Or as we call it, 700AD till present in every islamic society. Such hypocricy.

You have no idea. Look at Malaysia and other East Asian nations with Muslim majorities. Better yet, take a look at developing MidEastern and North African countries. All have successful and rising economies, save for a few.

And Islam doesn't have anything to do with the corruption in Arab governments anyways.

Civilization depends on who's defining it, so I do agree with sherry that pornography and other corrupting elements are uncivilized, but I don't go around and enforce my beliefs on others. I don't mind others using these media, even though I have a negative opinion on it.

Quote: We don't, gays who do not repent go to hell, simple.

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Leviticus 20:13. "Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them." Romans 1:32.

And that by the way is from a real holy book, rather than your made up one of fantastic stories of pedophilia and rewards of young boys in heaven

I already disproved this silly link that you put up. There are no young boys in Islam's heaven... The link itself is corrupted.

Quote: Becuase for some reasons these people cant keep out of my country.

Just because they're living there, and you want them out? Where do you live?

Quote: Yep, but to be fair its their choice to live with this dishonor, nobody makes their decisions for them.

That's not dishonor. A woman can honor herself and at the same time keep to her decisions and dignity. That part aside...

Quote: Yes he is, what can you do, secualar progressive brainwashing.

Your ideas are quite conservative. I propose religious progressive brainwashing.

Quote: Thats actually mostly inaccurate, the female sex trade is a worldwide problem, including the ME.

It's a worldwide problem. The roots are purely criminal and sensual. Religion and race and background have nothing to do with it whatsoever.

MoscowMatt · Joined: 16 Sep 2005 Posts: 1566 Location: UK / Hungary

shery wrote: Tepic wrote: shery wrote: What about the slavery for woman in sex ? all the woman that been abused in asia and russia by the sex trader

Yes yes yes you have really woman rights in western country !
Asia and Russia are in the West? :think:

Asia is Asia

and Russia part of it in europe ! so it western yes !

Beside lets not talk about Asia and russia

USA all that exist in USA too ... and europe as well ....

Russia is part of Europe is it??

Not all of it West of the Urals is considered European. East of the Urals is considered Asian

https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/rs.html

ToonArmyIsComing · Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 5888 Location: Ontario

shery wrote: Leave us alone means
Leave our countries alone

I agree entirely with that premise. However, the rise of the Muslim population in the West through immigration has made many people fearful of Islam as a signficant number within the Muslim community have failed to integrate and they work actively to repress other groups who they deem to be immoral, which has created an uneasy relationship.

prometeus · Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 7:03 pm Post subject:

Saracen wrote: Do you even know what it means? It means that God's damnation is on the Jews and Christians who pray to these prophets. As a Muslim, Christian, or Jew, the only One worthy of praise is God. You should know better.

Actually I know better, the meaning was not the entire point.

Allah's damnation be on the... That is a wish, or asking, but NOT a statement. As such, being a wish, it is rather unbecoming for a 'man of God' to speak like that, wouldn't you agree. By contrast, Jesus said "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do..." referring to the men who killed Him.

If God's damnation will be on them, then it is so, because He wishes it to be so, and certainly NOT because Mohamed or anyone else wants it so.

shery wrote: We can reform your brain first before you try to touch our religion.

Is that closed minded fanaticism or just VERY passionate expression?

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 15867 Location: On Earth

prometeus wrote: Allah's damnation be on the... That is a wish, or asking, but NOT a statement. As such, being a wish, it is rather unbecoming for a 'man of God' to speak like that, wouldn't you agree. By contrast, Jesus said "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do..." referring to the men who killed Him.

The thing is that God does not want any likeness of Himself. And those who do so are committing the sin of shirk, which is not the same as Trinity, which is also something that Islam disagrees on.

Also, I do not believe that Jesus is God and that he was killed on the cross. No offense meant.

Quote: If God's damnation will be on them, then it is so, because He wishes it to be so, and certainly NOT because Mohamed or anyone else wants it so.

It's not that. God has revealed His Message to Muhammad (peace be upon him), but Muhammad (peace be upon him) has quoted God in his "discussions" with Him. If God wishes damnation, it will be done, but on the Last Day.