Political Crossfire Forums

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 15676 Location: On Earth

Venom wrote: This has been attempted and failed due to lack of a foreign invader's help. Saddam controlled the military along with his two sons, using chemical weapons on any revolt.
So your for using failed attempts time and time again?

If it leads to the demoralization and inevitable destruction of the tyrant regime, why not? Look at England and France, for example.

Quote: Muslims are all over the globe, so they are "everywhere".

But it doesn't mean that they are causing "terrorism" "everywhere".

Quote: So that means it's ok because they are terrorists because of political issues? They smear and distort Islam with every attack and every terror/hate speech.

No they're not right. They're using Islam for their own political ends. This doesn't smear any sort of guilt on the part of Islam.

Quote: Can it? Does Israel not bring their offenders to court? Does Israel not allow even Palestinians to file complaints to their courts? Your own article about the illegal evictions shows that they were filing in court against these actions. Meanwhile Palestine dances in the streets when there is an attack on the West.
What would you all do if you saw millions of Americans doing a jig in the streets upon a large strike on Palestine?

There are war criminals who were elected to power in the Knesset. That alone tells you something.

Quote: I meant to type "area of the world", however is this not a war of generalizations? Does your side of the argument not generalize against the Isreali people, the IDF, etc? Yes you do. Again a two way street.
I do realize that there are tolerant Arab muslims in this world, however in the Middle East they would appear to be the minority. The leaders of this part of the world allow terrorism to reach out across the globe, allow for all sorts of anti-semite, anti-west preaching even some of this done by the leaders themselves. These are "elected" leaders in many countries and thus are the voice of the people voting apparently

I'm not generalizing against Israelis. Israelis are not my enemy. My enemy is the Israeli government.

Quote: Which governments are corrupt?

Every last one of them.

Quote: Well a Muslim has to migrate there to blow himself up there. Unless those crazy terrorists have made some sort of weird Star Wars type crazy suicide system where they can blow themselves up in Palestine and transfer the effects to the UK.

They're not the same people who are blowing up in Palestine and the UK. They may be "Muslim", but they're not essentially the SAME PEOPLE.

Venom · Joined: 06 Sep 2006 Posts: 807

Quote: If it leads to the demoralization and inevitable destruction of the tyrant regime, why not? Look at England and France, for example.
So your willing to sacrifice the hundreds of thousands in attempts to overthrow Saddam because it would eventually happen?
Saddam's regime showed no end in sight at the start of 2003... well that's until the coalition got him.

Quote: But it doesn't mean that they are causing "terrorism" "everywhere".

Radical Muslims are causing "terrorism" "everywhere" :)

Quote: No they're not right. They're using Islam for their own political ends. This doesn't smear any sort of guilt on the part of Islam
It means their version of Islam is at fault for being the "source" for their recruiting and acts.
It's just like a radical Jewish group or radical Christrian group that used their holy book as wording to kill everyone else...

Quote: There are war criminals who were elected to power in the Knesset. That alone tells you something
Got a link?
Palestine elected a terrorist group to lead their government : "That alone tells you something"

Quote: I'm not generalizing against Israelis. Israelis are not my enemy. My enemy is the Israeli government
The Israeli government is elected by the Israeli people and is their voice therefore the Israeli people are your enemy if their whole government is.
Did you vote for Hamas by chance?

Quote: Every last one of them.

So corrupt governments stopped the development of the ME countries from being on par with the west as a whole... but all governments are corrupt so is there more to it that just that?

Quote: They're not the same people who are blowing up in Palestine and the UK. They may be "Muslim", but they're not essentially the SAME PEOPLE
They are from both from the ME more often than not, follow the same radical religion and both preach the death to the same groups... seems pretty much the same to me.
The 9/11 terrorists were indeed from the ME, as were the USS Cole attackers, etc...

Saracen · Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 15676 Location: On Earth

Venom wrote: So your willing to sacrifice the hundreds of thousands in attempts to overthrow Saddam because it would eventually happen?
Saddam's regime showed no end in sight at the start of 2003... well that's until the coalition got him.

I'm not condoning death. However, I suppose a swift coup would oust him from power. Saddam would eventually leave room for a power struggle after his death.

Quote: Radical Muslims are causing "terrorism" "everywhere"

Where? Iraq? Palestine? Chechnya? India? I'm not excusing terrorism, but you can't be blind to the terrorism of others. I'm just saying that it's just by chance that these Muslims were caught up in this mess because of their global distribution, which, although not "everywhere", is in a lot of places.

Quote: It means their version of Islam is at fault for being the "source" for their recruiting and acts.
It's just like a radical Jewish group or radical Christrian group that used their holy book as wording to kill everyone else...

That's just what I said.

Quote: Got a link?
Palestine elected a terrorist group to lead their government : "That alone tells you something"

There are a lot out there, but the idea that an extremist gunman was aquitted tells you something.

Quote: The Israeli government is elected by the Israeli people and is their voice therefore the Israeli people are your enemy if their whole government is.
Did you vote for Hamas by chance?

I didn't vote for Hamas by any chance. Also, the election of an Israeli government to power is an action, not a group of people. That means that if I hate the Israeli government, I don't hate the Israeli people.

Why should I hate the people when the government is the real force responsible behind this whole mesS?

Quote: So corrupt governments stopped the development of the ME countries from being on par with the west as a whole... but all governments are corrupt so is there more to it that just that?

Is there more? Yeah... tyrannical governments, not just corrupt ones.

Quote: They are from both from the ME more often than not, follow the same radical religion and both preach the death to the same groups... seems pretty much the same to me.
The 9/11 terrorists were indeed from the ME, as were the USS Cole attackers, etc...

The UK bus bombers were Pakistani. Not from the ME.

Venom · Joined: 06 Sep 2006 Posts: 807

Quote: The UK bus bombers were Pakistani. Not from the ME.
The UK bombers also traveled the Middle East did they not?
What about the 9/11 bombers in the US? The USS Cole etc?

Quote: Is there more? Yeah... tyrannical governments, not just corrupt ones
So ME governments are so messed up, that even with the #1 resource in the world that area of the world has failed to develop like the West?

Quote: I didn't vote for Hamas by any chance. Also, the election of an Israeli government to power is an action, not a group of people. That means that if I hate the Israeli government, I don't hate the Israeli people.

Why should I hate the people when the government is the real force responsible behind this whole mesS?

Because who gave the the government the real force responsible behind this whole mess? The voters that gave them that power.
So if you didn't vote for Hamas who did ya vote for?

Quote: There are a lot out there, but the idea that an extremist gunman was aquitted tells you something.
An apparent racist gunmen killed Arab Israelis and was lynched by the mob that came for him. The court ruled that he was not part of a terrorist group, now I believe the decision could go either way. On one hand any hate crime committed could be ruled as terorrism and on the other they could allow outrage over him not being declared a terrorist. Now the fact that Palestine has elected a known terrorist group that on purpose stopped the peace process certainly tells me something.

Quote: Where? Iraq? Palestine? Chechnya? India? I'm not excusing terrorism, but you can't be blind to the terrorism of others. I'm just saying that it's just by chance that these Muslims were caught up in this mess because of their global distribution, which, although not "everywhere", is in a lot of places.

I realize there are terrorists that follow a different relgion, I've stated this before. However to not be able to admit that there certainly appears to be a much larger population of Arab Muslim terrorists is sticking your head in the sand.
Radical Muslims are every where.... they need some place to hide, train, and plan do they not?

Quote: I'm not condoning death. However, I suppose a swift coup would oust him from power. Saddam would eventually leave room for a power struggle after his death.
A coup requires a military leader to take the power using military action and Saddam's military was run by dunn dunnn daaaaaaaaaaaa Saddam's two sons of which many believe are even more horrible than him....
a coup was not very likely, revolts had been tried and smashed and the survivors and their families were tortured and murdered. Also he enjoyed using chemical weapons on these people....

As for waiting for him to die... Saddam is in his mid 60s... he has what a good 10 years or more left? Apparently youd be willing to wait him out... oh yeah and he was a lot more brutal than the Israelis.

emerald · Joined: 05 Apr 2005 Posts: 7404 Location: uk

Quote: emerald wrote:
I want muslims to go back to wherever they came from and stay there

my, i'm so glad you're not ruling any country. you see the problem with 'us muslims' going back to where we come from is that you always seem to follow one way or another

Racist and generally intentionally offensive comments are against forum rules. Do not engage in this practice.

Leftneckredwing

i'm curious as to what was so offensive that it was deleted!

and there was me thinking we were getting along.......such a shame :cry: