Political Crossfire Forums

[Blinky]

MG1962 wrote: Quote: Firstly, I don't think the values test will actually come about. Its being suggested to gain political mileage.
But if it were introduced, I'd wait to see what were deemed Australian values and then question them if I didn't agree.

Yes I tend to agree - We are still figuring out what the hell and Australian is - to figuring out the values is a bit wonky right now.

Yep. But there are some generally accepted values (which are not necessarily quintessentially "Australian") that are subscribed to by most people already here. Off the top of my head: the right to vote, practice your chosen religion, gender equality.
Anyone who doesn't share a sense of importance about these fundamental things has no place here, IMO, and would be disruptive.
The way I see it, its a seller's market: if you don't like whats on offer, you don't have to come here.

[maxtsu]

MG1962 wrote: Please feel free to point out anywhere in my posts where I have either supported or offered negative comments about the proposal I say that the values pledge on visitors is stupid.
You say... Quote: Only those planning to stay longer than 3 months need apply for one. I say... Quote: and what if you are tourist planning to stay for longer then 3 months
just like many backpackers do today? You say Quote: What percentage of visitors to Australia apply for over three month stays as purely tourists?. Most back packers come in on Visas so they can work I say.. Quote: I certainly know some people. It appears to me that your are arguing for this proposal.
If you now say you are not agreeing or disagreeing...whats was your point?
Maybe I am missing something here, like an argument.

Back to my original argument...Beazely is wrong to expects visitors to make a values pledge.

[maxtsu]

Blinky wrote: MG1962 wrote: Quote: Firstly, I don't think the values test will actually come about. Its being suggested to gain political mileage.
But if it were introduced, I'd wait to see what were deemed Australian values and then question them if I didn't agree.

Yes I tend to agree - We are still figuring out what the hell and Australian is - to figuring out the values is a bit wonky right now.

Yep. But there are some generally accepted values (which are not necessarily quintessentially "Australian") that are subscribed to by most people already here. Off the top of my head: the right to vote, practice your chosen religion, gender equality.
Anyone who doesn't share a sense of importance about these fundamental things has no place here, IMO, and would be disruptive.
The way I see it, its a seller's market: if you don't like whats on offer, you don't have to come here.
I agree, if you do not accept, do offer not valid.

but what would be Australian values be?
you have mentioned "the right to vote, practice your chosen religion, gender equality."
would you agree that these would be the same values in all western democracies?
What i am interested in, is what extra Australian values would be applied?

[Blinky]

maxtsu wrote: Blinky wrote: MG1962 wrote: Quote: Firstly, I don't think the values test will actually come about. Its being suggested to gain political mileage.
But if it were introduced, I'd wait to see what were deemed Australian values and then question them if I didn't agree.

Yes I tend to agree - We are still figuring out what the hell and Australian is - to figuring out the values is a bit wonky right now.

Yep. But there are some generally accepted values (which are not necessarily quintessentially "Australian") that are subscribed to by most people already here. Off the top of my head: the right to vote, practice your chosen religion, gender equality.
Anyone who doesn't share a sense of importance about these fundamental things has no place here, IMO, and would be disruptive.
The way I see it, its a seller's market: if you don't like whats on offer, you don't have to come here.
I agree, if you do not accept, do offer not valid.

but what would be Australian values be?
you have mentioned "the right to vote, practice your chosen religion, gender equality."
would you agree that these would be the same values in all western democracies?
What i am interested in, is what extra Australian values would be applied?

Australia, in my mind, subscribes to the values of traditional Western democracy. As far as uniquely Australian values go, I wouldn't want to venture into that territory - it easily becomes bogged down in dribble surrounding sport, drinking, and being a larakin. I personally don't see the point in making migrants pass a test on anything other than the general Western democratic values. And English language. But so far neither of these two have been enforced, and Australia has suffered socially IMO.

[Wizard From Oz]

Quote: but what would be Australian values be?
you have mentioned "the right to vote, practice your chosen religion, gender equality."
would you agree that these would be the same values in all western democracies?
What i am interested in, is what extra Australian values would be applied?

Thats a very interesting question - and one I fear cant honestly be answered. Many of the qualities we embrace come from the cultures that influenced our developement, rather than purely home grown solutions

Example our democracy and humour can be traced directly to Britian. Our growing passion for wine and food - To the Europeans who came to our shores.... Really the list is endless.

As a nation I simply dont think we have been here long enough to do this. About the only thing we seem to have evolved (Not a quality though) Is the classless society

[Hotdog]

NAB... Quote: Elvis is alive and lives in Lithgow - working as a hair dresser.

Bullsh!t.

Only just the other day on my way back to Sydney from Perth I bumped into him changing the towels in a cheap brothel in Kalgoorlie. He swore me to secrecy but I had my fingers crossed.

[Wizard From Oz]

Quote: Only just the other day on my way back to Sydney from Perth I bumped into him changing the towels in a cheap brothel in Kalgoorlie. He swore me to secrecy but I had my fingers crossed.

You might be right. Roy Slaven reported that back in his Lithgow Shamrock days which would have been the mid 90's - So chances are he's moved on

[Hotdog]