Political Crossfire Forums

[maxtsu]

Australian Values Pledge
Quote: LABOR leader Kim Beazley has fended off criticism of his suggestion new arrivals in Australia sign a values pledge, saying visitors should know what is expected of them.

Mr Beazley earlier this week proposed to make a declaration supporting Australian values part of the process of gaining a visa to enter the country.

Prime Minister John Howard criticised the suggestion, saying it was unrealistic to expect tourists to adhere to such protocol.

But Mr Beazley today defended his stance, saying "when in Rome do as the Romans do".

Possibly the only time I will ever agree with Howard.
But Beazley is mad.
wtf..he expects visitors to make a pledge to australian values!
Even tourists!
ffs visitors to the US get security screened, but they do not get to raise their right hand and pledge allegiance to Democracy, Freedom and all that crap.

He says "when in Rome, do as the Romans do"...when you visit Rome..you do not drive on the streets, you will kill yourself..you leave that skill to the Romans. Because you are a visitor.

Does anyone here agree with Beazley in relation to tourist visas?

[DSwain]

Seems to be going a bit far - though I wholly support John Howard's view on immigration, as further laid out in a speech earlier this week - about compulsory language skills, citizenship and history tests about Australia and a longer period between residency and citizenship.

[Kripcat]

What are Australian values? Who decides precisely what they are? How are they examinable?

There are no universal values that all Australians posses. The ANZAC spirit and the concept of mateship are just media constructs. So why should we refuse residency to potential immigrants because they do not adhere to values we ourselves do not hold?

[maxtsu]

Kripcat wrote: What are Australian values? Who decides precisely what they are? How are they examinable?

There are no universal values that all Australians posses. The ANZAC spirit and the concept of mateship are just media constructs. So why should we refuse residency to potential immigrants because they do not adhere to values we ourselves do not hold?
This is a very good questions.
And I will be very interested to see the areas for a test in these values.
What I hope it will not be is a test on the English monarchy.

[Wizard From Oz]

***Sigh*** Where does this crap come from. This has nothing to do with tourists, but those who intend to make Australia their home

[maxtsu]

MG1962 wrote: ***Sigh*** Where does this crap come from. This has nothing to do with tourists, but those who intend to make Australia their home
***Double-Sigh*** Read the article, to understand why I have a disagreement with Beazley.... Quote: Mr Beazley earlier this week proposed to make a declaration supporting Australian values part of the process of gaining a visa to enter the country.

Prime Minister John Howard criticised the suggestion, saying it was unrealistic to expect tourists to adhere to such protocol.

Imagine all those Japanese tourists to hit the Downtown Duty Free had to pass a test to name all the past PMs of Australia.
Kinda ridiculous.

[Wizard From Oz]

***Triple sigh***

Australia has been a member of the visa waiver program since mid 2004. Only those planning to stay longer than 3 months need apply for one.

[Blinky]

Kripcat wrote: What are Australian values? Who decides precisely what they are? How are they examinable?

There are no universal values that all Australians posses. The ANZAC spirit and the concept of mateship are just media constructs. So why should we refuse residency to potential immigrants because they do not adhere to values we ourselves do not hold?

Firstly, I don't think the values test will actually come about. Its being suggested to gain political mileage.
But if it were introduced, I'd wait to see what were deemed Australian values and then question them if I didn't agree.

[Wizard From Oz]

Quote: Firstly, I don't think the values test will actually come about. Its being suggested to gain political mileage.
But if it were introduced, I'd wait to see what were deemed Australian values and then question them if I didn't agree.

Yes I tend to agree - We are still figuring out what the hell and Australian is - to figuring out the values is a bit wonky right now.

[maxtsu]

MG1962 wrote: ***Triple sigh***

Australia has been a member of the visa waiver program since mid 2004. Only those planning to stay longer than 3 months need apply for one. ***quadruple sigh***
and what if you are tourist planning to stay for longer then 3 months
just like many backpackers do today?

addition....
yes there are certain visa waiver programs, but some nationalities still require a visa to visit Australia as a tourist.
Do you expect these people to revise state and Federal law for their 2 week visit to Sydney?

[Wizard From Oz]

Quote: and what if you are tourist planning to stay for longer then 3 months
just like many backpackers do today?

addition....
yes there are certain visa waiver programs, but some nationalities still require a visa to visit Australia as a tourist.
Do you expect these people to revise state and Federal law for their 2 week visit to Sydney?

What percentage of visitors to Australia apply for over three month stays as purely tourists?. Most back packers come in on Visas so they can work

[maxtsu]

MG1962 wrote: Quote: and what if you are tourist planning to stay for longer then 3 months
just like many backpackers do today?

addition....
yes there are certain visa waiver programs, but some nationalities still require a visa to visit Australia as a tourist.
Do you expect these people to revise state and Federal law for their 2 week visit to Sydney?

What percentage of visitors to Australia apply for over three month stays as purely tourists?. Most back packers come in on Visas so they can work
I certainly know some people.
I myself traveled south america for 6 months.
And what about nationalities that have to have a visa just to visit?

Your in the typical Australian mind-set where anyone who sets foot on Australian soil wants to live and work there. And therefore your immigration rules are built around this fortress, to stop these hoards of migrants stealing jobs.
Australia is a great country, with superb natural beauty.
And there are many people that want to just visit, but not to live and work there.

[Wizard From Oz]

Quote: Your in the typical Australian mind-set where anyone who sets foot on Australian soil wants to live and work there. And therefore your immigration rules are built around this fortress, to stop these hoards of migrants stealing jobs.
Australia is a great country, with superb natural beauty.
And there are many people that want to just visit, but not to live and work there.

Generality alert!!!!

The US has the same rule - more than 90 days in the country, you need to apply for a visa.

[DSwain]

Seems to me that Australia has every right to ask people staying for prolonged periods to make such a declaration. When it comes down to it, it's a sellers' market - if people don't like it, then they can go and visit/work/travel somewhere else.

[NAB]

What a timely topic, at least in my case. I just filled out a business visa application today for Australia. There is no pledge, at least on the form. Do I get to raise my hand at the airport when I arrive? :wink:

Any tips from the locals on some proper phrases to drop so my hosts know I'm a right honorable guest. :wink:

[Wizard From Oz]

What a timely topic, at least in my case. I just filled out a business visa application today for Australia. There is no pledge, at least on the form. Do I get to raise my hand at the airport when I arrive?

Any tips from the locals on some proper phrases to drop so my hosts know I'm a right honorable guest.

When ya coming over - I am heading over your way in a couple of weeks. How funny.

Okay essential language tips - Refer to all English as Poms. You will be refered to as a Yank

Drop bears are mythical

Important phrases "Cant wait for the Ashes"

"Shame about Brockie"

"What's ya tip for the cup"

Important survival tips

Drop bears are mythical - but feel free to smile and appear to be fooled by the locals. Makes us feel good.

Vegemite DOESN'T taste like nutella

Tim Tams are living proof that God lives in Australia. And it is true that you can suck coffee through them.

Elvis is alive and lives in Lithgow - working as a hair dresser.

And dont try and say G'day - The American accent it makes it sound lame and forced.

That should cover it - Oh and Steve Irwin lived in QLD. So unless you are near Brisbane or environs - Dont bother asking if we knew him..... Its a big country lo[/quote]

[NAB]

MG1962 wrote: What a timely topic, at least in my case. I just filled out a business visa application today for Australia. There is no pledge, at least on the form. Do I get to raise my hand at the airport when I arrive?

Any tips from the locals on some proper phrases to drop so my hosts know I'm a right honorable guest.

When ya coming over - I am heading over your way in a couple of weeks. How funny.

Okay essential language tips - Refer to all English as Poms. You will be refered to as a Yank

Drop bears are mythical

Important phrases "Cant wait for the Ashes"

"Shame about Brockie"

"What's ya tip for the cup"

Important survival tips

Drop bears are mythical - but feel free to smile and appear to be fooled by the locals. Makes us feel good.

Vegemite DOESN'T taste like nutella

Tim Tams are living proof that God lives in Australia. And it is true that you can suck coffee through them.

Elvis is alive and lives in Lithgow - working as a hair dresser.

And dont try and say G'day - The American accent it makes it sound lame and forced.

That should cover it - Oh and Steve Irwin lived in QLD. So unless you are near Brisbane or environs - Dont bother asking if we knew him..... Its a big country lo

Well thanks for clearing up a few faux pas I'm sure I would have committed. I was about to re-watch the Simpsons episode in Australia to re-educate myself on your fair land. :lol:

Btw, you're wrong about Elvis. He's alive and well and living in Vegas. I have a photo of my friends getting married by him as proof. :wink:

There's a good chance I'll be Sydney next week, but I won't know for sure until I receive confirmation tomorrow or Friday. It's rather short notice (found out this morning), so I'm scrambling to get the Visa processed and have my passport sent back in time.

[Wizard From Oz]

Well you will have a blast while you are here - Sept is a fantastic time of year to be in Sydney - I fly out for the US next Friday as well.

Depending when you arrive you will fly right into the middle of our two versions of the super bowl. Both our major national winter sports have their finals.



Ohh if you are a ladies man - toosh and fanny - over here - reverse the meaning :)

[maxtsu]

MG1962 wrote: Quote: Your in the typical Australian mind-set where anyone who sets foot on Australian soil wants to live and work there. And therefore your immigration rules are built around this fortress, to stop these hoards of migrants stealing jobs.
Australia is a great country, with superb natural beauty.
And there are many people that want to just visit, but not to live and work there.

Generality alert!!!!

The US has the same rule - more than 90 days in the country, you need to apply for a visa.
Well the US is....the US!
wrt prolonged periods...do all the Australian backpackers who overstay their visas working in London ever pledge allegiance to English Queen and country?

So...are you seriously demanding that any nationality who requires a visa to visit Australia pass a values test?
What do you think will be the impact to tourism?

There is no problem for immigrants. That is only natural, and already being exercised in other countries. Including European countries.
But there is a difference between applying for citizenship, and being a visitor.
Can you imagine all these tourists lining up at KingsfordSmith pledging allegiance to Howard the great.
It is pure non-commonsense.

[Wizard From Oz]

Well the US is....the US!
wrt prolonged periods...do all the Australian backpackers who overstay their visas working in London ever pledge allegiance to English Queen and country?

Perhaps you might be better served taking that up with your member of parliment rather than I. I am no more responsible for Australian backpackers overstaying their visas than you are for British ones doing it here

So...are you seriously demanding that any nationality who requires a visa to visit Australia pass a values test?
What do you think will be the impact to tourism?

Please feel free to point out anywhere in my posts where I have either supported or offered negative comments about the proposal

Can you imagine all these tourists lining up at KingsfordSmith pledging allegiance to Howard the great.
It is pure non-commonsense.

Well given it is Kim Beasley and not John Howard that set forth the proposal, I suggest your senario is improbable at best

[/quote]