Political Crossfire Forums

[Venom]

Why does the world still listen to the United Nations, especially on middle eastern affairs?

Personally I believe the UN is one of the more biased, corrupt and useless international bodies ever invented.

Lets look at recent actions:
Calling for an Israeli cease-fire

Ok thats fair enough, no one really wants war. However their way of fixing things? Send in peace keepers. Ok it doesn't sound too bad so far.

15,000 troops--- ok but they are not there to take away Hezbollah's weapons, they are just there to keep Israel out.. hrmmm

Quote: Lebanon's government asked to deploy troops to the south of the country, previously the domain of Hezbollah fighters
Ok and the Lebanese government has already stated they will not disarm Hezbollah.
Here is a nice statement from Lebanon's President Emile Lahoud: Quote: "How can they ask us to disarm the only force in the Arab world who stood up to Israel?" source

So basically this cease-fire is what? A forced Israeli withdraw, a 15,000 man UN buffer and nothing negative to Hezbollah.

As for the 15,000 troops France has "taken the lead". That means they have apparently sent 2,000 troops while Italy is sending 3,000. Way to take the lead.... Europe cannot come up with the 15,000 troops thus far.

Quote: European nations agreed to contribute enough new troops to reach about half the United Nations' goal of 15,000 international troops for a peacekeeping mission in Lebanon. Some are expected to be on the ground within a week, but it will take several months for the full contingent to be in place. Source

Apparently China is going to send some troops and well the Germans will not put anyone on the ground (they will be in the water, I guess out of fear that they would end up killing more Jews?)

And now you have the chief clown leading it all... enter Kofi Annan. Quote: U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan said Friday that Syria would step up border patrols and work with the Lebanese army to stop the flow of weapons to Hezbollah.
So the Lebanese have said the won't disarm Hezbollah and Syria is going to help them? I guess you need a lot of extra hands in not disarming something. Where was Kofi Annan when the president of Lebanon announched he would not disarm Hezbollah and now he is all giddy that Syria of all people is going to help? :lol: I feel like I am in some bizarro universe. Source


So anyone care to make a argument for why the UN is effective?
The UN has quite a record of going against the Jews for some reason....
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/UN/israel_un.html

[fiction416]

Venom wrote:
Apparently China is going to send some troops and well the Germans will not put anyone on the ground (they will be in the water, I guess out of fear that they would end up killing more Jews?)

------

The UN has quite a record of going against the Jews for some reason....




STFU

[programmusic]

why, does that offend you fiction?

[fiction416]

programmusic wrote: why, does that offend you fiction?


We are talking about a country, not a group of people who follow a religion - Replace Jew with Black, White, or Asian. It is a racist POV to take - the comment on Germans was out of line for obvious reasons


I'm not offended, pre say, more than I am astonished that people fail to differentiate between Jews & Israel.

[programmusic]

wasn't that long ago fiction, very recently actually.

[Secondary Oak]

fiction416 wrote: Venom wrote:
Apparently China is going to send some troops and well the Germans will not put anyone on the ground (they will be in the water, I guess out of fear that they would end up killing more Jews?)

------

The UN has quite a record of going against the Jews for some reason....




STFU
Actually that's a very reasonable reason. It's extremely bad PR for Germany if Israelis will get damaged by German soldiers. Worse than the PR France or Italy would get under the same circumstances (though it will be bad for them as well).

[slitedeviance]

Venom wrote: As for the 15,000 troops France has "taken the lead". That means they have apparently sent 2,000 troops while Italy is sending 3,000. Way to take the lead.... Europe cannot come up with the 15,000 troops thus far.

So two countries from europe agreeing to commit a third of the force is not taking the lead?

Well, perhaps if you understood quite how many European troops are committed to peacekeeping worldwide you'd have a better understanding of why Europe has not come up with 15,000 troops. This is a stupid point to make as it takes no account of any other influences and simply appears to be you wanting to bash Europe.

Besides which, the idea is for a multi-national force to be involved, including troops from Arab and ME countries. Turkey has committed troops to this task, despite widespread public opposition, and other Arab countries look like they will commit as well.

[fiction416]

Secondary Oak wrote:
Actually that's a very reasonable reason. It's extremely bad PR for Germany if Israelis will get damaged by German soldiers. Worse than the PR France or Italy would get under the same circumstances (though it will be bad for them as well).


WTF are you talking about, bad PR?

No one is saying anything bad about German troops on Israeli soil, excpet the moron above who cannot differentiate between Jews & Israel.

Okay, Mr. Reactionary, you get it now?

[superskippy]

Fiction what do you think would happen if by accident or for whatever reason German soldiers killed a few Israeli soldiers, Jews. Can you comprehend what the backlash would be?

In the eyes of the world and most people to see a German soldier kill an Israeli, a Jew, would be unacceptable more so than any other type of accident of similar type in the world.

Germany does not want to risk even slightly that this would happen. Nor do they want to see German soldiers so close to Israel would be very uneasy, and to participate as a peacekeeping force where they might find themselves due to whatever reason harming Israeli forces is not an acceptable option for them. Germany can never even be seen as very harsh against Israel let alone deploying troops near our borders.

[Venom]

Slitedeviance
Quote: So two countries from europe agreeing to commit a third of the force is not taking the lead?
No it's not taking the lead. France is the country that is supposed to take the lead, NOT Italy. How is sending 2,000 of 15,000 troops taking the lead? So as much as you can hope that a third of the troops from two countries within Europe is enough, well first off it's not and second off France is the "leader", it's not France + Italy.

[/quote]This is a stupid point to make as it takes no account of any other influences and simply appears to be you wanting to bash Europe.[/quote]
Where does France have a large amount of troops deployed around the world? Last I read they were leaving Chad (where the US Military is).

It's not a stupid point to make either. If you want to take the lead you should be able or atleast have the backbone to put up the numbers to take the lead....


Quote: Besides which, the idea is for a multi-national force to be involved, including troops from Arab and ME countries. Turkey has committed troops to this task, despite widespread public opposition, and other Arab countries look like they will commit as well.
Wow they look like they will commit now? So everyone here is so amazingly pissed about the US having post invasion Iraq poorly planned, yet a cease-fire forced onto Israeli by the UN doesn't have the numbers promised, is not even deployed in a timely fashion and on top of that their mission statement is one of not being able to do anything.

Fiction
Quote: STFU
Very well thought out response.

Quote: We are talking about a country, not a group of people who follow a religion - Replace Jew with Black, White, or Asian. It is a racist POV to take - the comment on Germans was out of line for obvious reasons


Well fact of the matter is about 77% of Israeli is Jewish. Israel is considered a Jewish country. It's opponents certainly do.
Now as for Germany they have quite a hand involved in the creation of Israel. Now yes it would look horrible if a German killed a Jew wouldn't it?

Quote: WTF are you talking about, bad PR?
Look at history, the Germans attempted to wipe out the Jews (much to the delight of Hezbollah and Iran). If you think it wouldn't look especially bad to have the Germans doing any sort of destruction towards Israel your sadly mistaken.

Aren't you one of those posters that believes the US is in the war against all of Islam? Why yes you are. Not all of Iraq is Islamic, not all of Afghan, Iran, or even Syria is Islamic but you still it's a war against Islam.
Quote: 3) Do you think that the war on Iraq is a war on Islam?

It's Turning in ...
So yet if the situation is reversed where countries are attacking a country where it's vast majority are Jewish it's not an attack on Jews?
Your a hypocrite.

Israel is mostly Jewish. So by your thinking the constant attacks, constant abuse by the UN, makes all the groups involved against the Jews. Thats exactly what you would say if they were Islamic.

[fiction416]

Venom wrote:
Very well thought out response.

Thanks - I was going to point out how linear your thinking is, but i thought a firm STFU was in order & I'm glad you agree.

Venom wrote:
Well fact of the matter is about 77% of Israeli is Jewish. Israel is considered a Jewish country. It's opponents certainly do.

1) are you saying Israel is a theocratic state?

2) So you are saying that there is NO difference between the following statements; A) 'I am against Israel & critcal of its actions' B) 'I am against Jews & critical of their actions'

Because I see a big difference between the two, and to revert to the type of reasoning you envoked earlier, is discriminatory to all other non-jews.

Venom wrote: Now as for Germany they have quite a hand involved in the creation of Israel.

The Nazi State of Germany, Yes.

Germans, No!

Venom wrote: Now yes it would look horrible if a German killed a Jew wouldn't it?

Only to simple minded people, challenged by linear thinking & their own narrow minded ideologies

Venom wrote:
Look at history, the Germans attempted to wipe out the Jews

The Germans did no such thing - and your statement is broad & sweeping, that seems to include ALL Germans, which is not the case - The Nazi's did. That was over 60 years ago

Venom wrote: (much to the delight of Hezbollah and Iran).

Non sequitur

Venom wrote: If you think it wouldn't look especially bad to have the Germans doing any sort of destruction towards Israel your sadly mistaken.

I'm not one to assume things onto people - I have no idea how immaturely people would react to the German's helping Israel & an accident happening?


Venom wrote: Aren't you one of those posters that believes the US is in the war against all of Islam?

Umm, No!

Venom wrote: Why yes you are.

You look really really silly when you assume shyt of people, you know?

STFU!

Venom wrote: Not all of Iraq is Islamic, not all of Afghan, Iran, or even Syria is Islamic but you still it's a war against Islam.

You are asking this of the person that is challenging your use of the term 'Jews' in a broad and sweeping manner, when reffering to Israel.

Again, STFU


Quote: 3) Do you think that the war on Iraq is a war on Islam?

[quote="Venom"]
So yet if the situation is reversed where countries are attacking a country where it's vast majority are Jewish it's not an attack on Jews?

No, It's an attack on Israel, plain and simple.

Hey, do you know what the recent ratio of Jews : non jews killed in the conflict with Lebanon?

lol
Venom wrote:
Your a hypocrite.

If you are going to insult me, please use the correct grammer & spelling, thanks!

Venom wrote: Israel is mostly Jewish. So by your thinking the constant attacks, constant abuse by the UN, makes all the groups involved against the Jews. Thats exactly what you would say if they were Islamic.

Stop telling me what I would say, it makes you look like an idiot!

[the sane voice]

nazis arent germans? :lol:
and hypocrite is spelled right.

[fiction416]

the sane voice wrote: nazis arent germans? :lol:



WTF? Is linear thinking endemic of everyone in Israel?

What I was saying was that; ALL Germans do not = Nazi's. To say or imply otherwise is a broad and misleading generalization, that should not be taken seriously in any conversation.

the sane voice wrote:
and hypocrite is spell right.

You're right, it is spelt correctly, observant one!

[the sane voice]

fiction416 wrote:
The Nazi State of Germany, Yes.

Germans, No!


edit:
fiction416 wrote:
The Germans did no such thing - and your statement is broad & sweeping, that seems to include ALL Germans, which is not the case - The Nazi's did. That was over 60 years ago


:roll:
i dont know what you meant only what u wrote.

[fiction416]

the sane voice wrote: fiction416 wrote:
The Nazi State of Germany, Yes.

Germans, No!


edit:
fiction416 wrote:
The Germans did no such thing - and your statement is broad & sweeping, that seems to include ALL Germans, which is not the case - The Nazi's did. That was over 60 years ago


:roll:
i dont know what you meant only what u wrote.

To say the Nazi's did would be accurate

To say the German Gov't did would be accurate

There is a distinction between civilians and Gov't, would you say?


Edit: I fixed your example above, to show you the part you forgot to read, the part that concluded my thought.

[the sane voice]

fiction416 wrote: the sane voice wrote: fiction416 wrote:
The Nazi State of Germany, Yes.

Germans, No!


edit:
fiction416 wrote:
The Germans did no such thing - and your statement is broad & sweeping, that seems to include ALL Germans, which is not the case - The Nazi's did. That was over 60 years ago


:roll:
i dont know what you meant only what u wrote.

To say the Nazi's did would be accurate

To say the German Gov't did would be accurate

There is a distinction between civilians and Gov't, would you say?
just cant admitt when youre wrong can you?the nazis were germans.
to be accurate,most germans were nazis.but hey-if you want to be an advocate for the germans be my guest.

[fiction416]

the sane voice wrote: fiction416 wrote:
i dont know what you meant only what u wrote.

To say the Nazi's did would be accurate

To say the German Gov't did would be accurate

There is a distinction between civilians and Gov't, would you say?

the sane voice wrote: just cant admitt when youre wrong can you?the nazis were germans.
to be accurate,most germans were nazis.but hey-if you want to be an advocate for the germans be my guest. [/quote]


Non sequitur - you never answered my question in respect to the conversation at hand - let alone shown how I may be wrong.

Since you too have a problem understanding how conversations work, I bolded the question for you, above.

Step up your game!

[the sane voice]

fiction416 wrote:


let alone shown how I may be wrong.


u said nazis arent germans.you were wrong.i dont know what you meant only what you said.the nazis even saw themselves as germans-hitler always shouted "duechtland duechtland!"

[fiction416]

the sane voice wrote:
u said nazis arent germans.


WTF is wrong with you?

No, I did not say that!


I am saying there is a distinction between the citizens of a country 'Germans' and the Gov't of said country.

[slitedeviance]

the sane voice wrote: the nazis were germans.

...and Bulgaria and Poland and Britain and France and Yugoslavia and Holland.

Nazism had supporters across the entire globe, to put it down simply to the population of one country is an error. Facism itself sprang from Italy not Germany.

the sane voice wrote: advocate for the germans be my guest

You seem to forget that it wasn't just Jews who paid the price of the Holocaust. Long before Auschwitz and the other death camps were put into place German scholars, students, politicians and lecturers were executed.

As for advocating for them? I'll happily advocate for them, for Herman Hesse and Thomas Mann. For the current German state. For the future that the Germans were almost denied.