Political Crossfire Forums

[Gus]

Ya, FPSs are crap on console...I absolutely cannot stand the unresponsiveness and awkwardness of aiming with a joystick/buttons.

[Venom]

Quote: WW2 games are played out and you don't play shooters on a console.
Oddly enough Call of Duty 2 for the 360 was the 1st game to move 1 million units ( a WW 2 shooter...)
Halo 1/2 solds millions
GRAW sold very well
Resistance, the flagship launch title for the PS 3
Rainbow Six Vegas
The list goes on...
You may not like FPS or WW 2 games but the fact of the matter is sales figures indicate they are niether played out nor are they not played on consoles.



As for the PS 3 have no games, thats kinda true however it was the same for the Xbox 360... the PS 3's real problem is a lack of units to sale as it's name alone will move units off the shelves.

[FCTE]

Venom wrote: Oddly enough Call of Duty 2 for the 360 was the 1st game to move 1 million units ( a WW 2 shooter...)

Gee, could it be that it was the only release that the Xbox 360 had?? I would credit the movement due to the fact that people wanted the Xbox 360, not the game on it's own. :lol:

Quote: Halo 1/2 solds millions

Halo is great, if you're 12.

Quote: Resistance, the flagship launch title for the PS 3

What about it? Please show me the stats on that one, oh that's right PS3 is coming out God knows when because apparently they can't build the damn thing. It seems to be on the same time schedule as Windows Vista. :lol:

Quote: You may not like FPS or WW 2 games but the fact of the matter is sales figures indicate they are niether played out nor are they not played on consoles.

It has nothing to do with liking consoles or not. Anyone who is a hardcore gamer or enjoys FPS games does not use a console, the controllers are garbage when it comes to accuracy. Professional gamers aren't sitting at conventions playing consoles, they use PC's. The console controller will NEVER be anythig close to a keyboard/mouse combo. Plus, console games are usually completely dumbed down even to the point where they aren't even the same game at all, two examples Battlefield 2 and Far Cry. Battlefield 2 on console is rediculously dumbed down and loses most of it's functionality, it feels like a cheap arcade game on a console. Far Cry isn't even the same story line, it's a completely different game all together.

Quote: As for the PS 3 have no games, thats kinda true however it was the same for the Xbox 360... the PS 3's real problem is a lack of units to sale as it's name alone will move units off the shelves.

The problem with the Xbox 360 and the PS3 is that they have tried to become all in one units at the cost of basic functionality and high cost, which is going to cost them customers. People don't want to surf the net and have the thing do a million other tasks, the whole point of a console is a cheap alternative to a high end gaming PC, with the high cost of the units that is no longer the case. People don't want it to do all that extra crap, they want to play games at a low cost. With the price of gaming rigs coming down they might as well build a good gaming PC which is far superior in every way.

[Free Thinkr]

FCTE wrote: Halo is great, if you're 12.
Oh the irony, coming from someone who's just dying to play Super Smash Brothers and balloon-collecting-derby. :lol:

[FCTE]

Free Thinkr wrote: FCTE wrote: Halo is great, if you're 12.
Oh the irony, coming from someone who's just dying to play Super Smash Brothers and balloon-collecting-derby. :lol:

No, I don't even know those games. Zelda and Mario Bros. are classics that Halo will never be.

[Venom]

Quote: Gee, could it be that it was the only release that the Xbox 360 had?? I would credit the movement due to the fact that people wanted the Xbox 360, not the game on it's own.

Or perhaps it's due to the series highly successful titles that have been released and performed on everything to include the PS 2 and the PC.
The game sold well on a system that was out for years and for a PC that has a lot of other shooters available to it as well.

Quote: Halo is great, if you're 12
In your opinion that's fine.

Quote: What about it? Please show me the stats on that one, oh that's right PS3 is coming out God knows when because apparently they can't build the damn thing. It seems to be on the same time schedule as Windows Vista.

The PS 3 is due out in November. Windows Vista coming out doesn't hold much affect to the PS 3 as it's a different market overall (PC an Console markets). The only MS products that Sony should be worried about is the Xbox 360 and it's big name launches coming out to stunt the reaction of the PS 3 release.

Quote: It has nothing to do with liking consoles or not. Anyone who is a hardcore gamer or enjoys FPS games does not use a console, the controllers are garbage when it comes to accuracy
Funny I hear that from the console side regarding hardcore gamers... maybe it just matters which is your perferred medium and the simple fact that consoles have 10x the amount of games that PCs have.
As for controllers being garbage for aiming, maybe you've personally been unable to make the switch (and of course it's admitted to be harder than a keyboard/mouse) however there are many out there that are very accurate with a Xbox controller/PS 2.

Quote: The console controller will NEVER be anythig close to a keyboard/mouse combo
For possibly an FPS which increasingly games like Rainbow Six, Gears of War, Ghost Recon are moving away from. However you can also buy a keyboard/mouse for a console. This dates back to the Dreamcast.

Quote: Plus, console games are usually completely dumbed down even to the point where they aren't even the same game at all, two examples Battlefield 2 and Far Cry.
We'll I've played BF 2 and Far Cry for both the 360 and the Pc. Certainly Far Cry was an awful port, however BF 2 was a lot different game just under the same name. I certainly didn't find BF 2 on the PC "deep" by any means.

Quote: Battlefield 2 on console is rediculously dumbed down and loses most of it's functionality, it feels like a cheap arcade game on a console The game is designed to be different than the PC version is it not?

Quote: Far Cry isn't even the same story line, it's a completely different game all together.

So why are you comparing a port that is not a direct port, just rather a company attempting to take advantage of a name?

Quote: The problem with the Xbox 360 and the PS3 is that they have tried to become all in one units at the cost of basic functionality and high cost, which is going to cost them customers
The Xbox 360 is a gaming "multimedia machine", the PS 3 has claimed to be a PC. However the high cost is certainly not turning people away as you can buy a Xbox 360 for $300 or $400. Lets say you pay $400, what else do you need to buy for the console to be able to play the games that are released? Ok I'll throw in a 2nd controller. Boom $450... now lets add say two games and Xbox Live gold.... you have $606 on a single console that two people can use at the same time.
Now lets look at a PC... if you want to buy a "value level" PC it will cost you around $1,000 not counting a game and unless your taking turns only 1 person will be playing at a time. Now lets take into account all of the upkeep required to play games also, video card drivers ( and their issues), game patches, poor mutliplayer matching systems (steam cannot even keep it's friends list working and I often have a difficult time getting a server list to load).
So while for $1,000 you can browse the internet and do standard PC things.. one of them will certainly not be playing a PC game at high quality settings unless it's a dated game...


Quote: People don't want to surf the net and have the thing do a million other tasks, the whole point of a console is a cheap alternative to a high end gaming PC, with the high cost of the units that is no longer the case. People
Even a $600 PS 3 would be cheap compared to buying a high end gaming PC...
I believe most people do not want a console for the ability to surf the internet. The Xbox 360 cannot do this, I believe the PS 3 "claims" it can.

Quote: People don't want it to do all that extra crap, they want to play games at a low cost. With the price of gaming rigs coming down they might as well build a good gaming PC which is far superior in every way.
Simply upgrading my video card to a high end card (not even the "highest) will cost $300 (more if you buy it from Bestbuy or whatever).
My basic computer specs are nothing special...
Athlon 64 4000+
1GB Ram
Geforce 7800GT
When I upgraded my PC nearly a year ago it cost me more than a PS 3 will cost me today.
Can this PC run an Unreal 3 engine game at the performance level of a Xbox 360? No.
If I spent the same money today it would maybe run it on par with the 360 or PS 3. Why? Because PCs are much harder to optimize for.
PC Gaming is superior in gameplay in my opinion in strategy games and FPS games. However that is two types of games with only one strategy game I'm even interested in (Supreme Commander... the beta rocks, C&C 3 Im skeptical b/c of EA) and I cannot think of a FPS that I really want on the PC, unless I want old WW 2 shooters that have been done over and over again (no I didn't buy Call of Duty on the 360).

Quote: With the price of gaming rigs coming down they might as well build a good gaming PC which is far superior in every way.
Show me a system that will cost me $400 dollars (we'll exclude the monitor) that can perform as well as a Xbox 360.

Quote: No, I don't even know those games. Zelda and Mario Bros. are classics that Halo will never be
A classic because they were the "it" game when you were younger and less picky about gaming? You could buy a Wii for $250 and then pay (again) to play these same games...



The bottom line is that if you want to buy a PC that can compete with a console on new games your going to invest well over $1,000. If you do not want all of the "extra" functions of a new system then you don't need to use them. My neighbor, whom owns a 360, does not use it online, simply puts in a game and plays just like a PS 1, Dreamcast, or whatever.
Oh and I cannot recall the last time I had to install a game onto my 360.

So if you want to be a "hardcore" gamer then you should be looking to play both platforms as each as it's own strengths and weaknesses.
Also please take note that you can check any respectable website that offers buyers guides and find that the cost of entry for a "value" or low end system to even attempt to play a new PC game on is more than even a PS 3 $600 version.

[Free Thinkr]

FCTE wrote: No, I don't even know those games. Zelda and Mario Bros. are classics that Halo will never be.
So is pacman. I wont be rushing out to get the latest pacman iteration either.

[Gus]

Free Thinkr wrote: FCTE wrote: No, I don't even know those games. Zelda and Mario Bros. are classics that Halo will never be.
So is pacman. I wont be rushing out to get the latest pacman iteration either.
Luckily Hillary Clinton will have that horribly violent and cannibalistic game rated M, so you won't be able to buy it anyway.

[FCTE]

Free Thinkr wrote: FCTE wrote: No, I don't even know those games. Zelda and Mario Bros. are classics that Halo will never be.
So is pacman. I wont be rushing out to get the latest pacman iteration either.

You don't need to if you still own an Atari 2600. 8:)

[FCTE]

Venom wrote: Or perhaps it's due to the series highly successful titles that have been released and performed on everything to include the PS 2 and the PC.The game sold well on a system that was out for years and for a PC that has a lot of other shooters available to it as well.

Exactly it's been on PC for years and did do well, but it's old and played out. There are only so many WW2 shooters that people can stomach. Consoles will always be second class and perpetually be playing catch up in gaming.

Quote: The PS 3 is due out in November. Windows Vista coming out doesn't hold much affect to the PS 3 as it's a different market overall (PC an Console markets). The only MS products that Sony should be worried about is the Xbox 360 and it's big name launches coming out to stunt the reaction of the PS 3 release.

Due out in November for now until they decide to push it back again. The biggest threat to the PS3 isn't Microsoft, the biggest threat to the PS3 is Sony and their half ass approach to the whole project. Game developers are dropping like flys because they can't even get test models of the PS3 delivered to make games on.

Quote: Funny I hear that from the console side regarding hardcore gamers... maybe it just matters which is your perferred medium and the simple fact that consoles have 10x the amount of games that PCs have.

Quantity isn't quality, most of those games score below 5. Console versions are dumbed down and in most cases do not have the same funtionality or story lines of the PC versions. Plus, the lifespan of PC versions is much longer with mods and online gameplay, while the next gens will all have a live gameplay of some sort it just doesn't compare to Online PC gaming. Xbox live is decent, but doesn't hold a candle to online PC gaming. MMORPG's are practically non-existant on consoles, Final Fantasy doesn't even compare to PC MMORPG's.

Quote: As for controllers being garbage for aiming, maybe you've personally been unable to make the switch (and of course it's admitted to be harder than a keyboard/mouse) however there are many out there that are very accurate with a Xbox controller/PS 2.

Very accurate for a console controller is relative, they will never come close to a keyboard/mouse combo.

Quote: For possibly an FPS which increasingly games like Rainbow Six, Gears of War, Ghost Recon are moving away from. However you can also buy a keyboard/mouse for a console. This dates back to the Dreamcast.

Those games are marginal on PC's when it comes to Unreal Tournament, Counter-Strike, Half-Life, and Battlefield.

Ahhhh yes, the Dreamcast, such a success :lol:

Xbox and PS2 have adapters using PS2 connections which do not have the response of a USB connection. not only that but the drivers are basic one size fits all drivers which is horribly disadvantaged. If I have a USB laser mouse it will not function anywhere near it would with the right drivers on a PC. The mouse support is not true mouse support.

Quote: I certainly didn't find BF 2 on the PC "deep" by any means.

It doesn't have to be deep, it has to have the same quality maps and vehicles etc. Why the console version atleast does not support the fighter jets in their versions when the consoles have controllers ready to fly them is beyond me. It's a cheap arcade port and it shows in ratings.

Quote: The game is designed to be different than the PC version is it not?

I dunno, I didn't develop it, no idea what their goal was, but it scores far below the PC version. Half-Life 2's port seems to be exactly like its PC counter part minus the high end graphics. EA is simply a sloppy company, but consoles are also highly limited in functionality.

Quote: So why are you comparing a port that is not a direct port, just rather a company attempting to take advantage of a name?

If it's not the same game they shouldn't be trying to pawn it off under the same name as such, that's what they're doing. So I am free to bash them for doing so.

Quote: Now lets look at a PC... if you want to buy a "value level" PC it will cost you around $1,000 not counting a game and unless your taking turns only 1 person will be playing at a time. Now lets take into account all of the upkeep required to play games also, video card drivers ( and their issues), game patches, poor mutliplayer matching systems (steam cannot even keep it's friends list working and I often have a difficult time getting a server list to load).So while for $1,000 you can browse the internet and do standard PC things.. one of them will certainly not be playing a PC game at high quality settings unless it's a dated game...


You can take any PC with a Pentium 4 or an AMD Athlon XP at 2Ghz or higher which most people already own and pop in a gaming grade graphics card for as little as $150 and download the driver.

So I think $150 - $200 is a hell of a lot cheaper than $600. Plus, you don't even have to go anywhere to get games most of the time, you can get most new releases through Steam or Direct2Drive.

The myth of PC's being hard to game on is from the Windows 98 days. XP is for the most part problem free unless the user is an idiot or PC illiterate to begin with, in which case that is not the PC's fault.

Matching systems are gay and as for the rest of your complaints about software, while there are glitches, the majority of problems are user error.

Quote: Even a $600 PS 3 would be cheap compared to buying a high end gaming PC...

High end is relative. There are people gaming still using basic 32bit 2Ghz processors and cards as old as Nvidia Gefore Ti4600 and the ATI 9800 Pro, which still destroys the original Xbox in gaming.

Yes, you can buy a top notch Alienware or XPS box, but most people do not use them.

Quote: I believe most people do not want a console for the ability to surf the internet. The Xbox 360 cannot do this, I believe the PS 3 "claims" it can.

No, Microsoft scrapped it and apparently scrapped backwards compatibility for the most part to put the 360 on the market before they worked all the bugs out in typical MS fashion. While the crashing problems are gone (but not completely) the overheating isn't, you can bake cookies on it or buy an aftermarket cooling unit for an extra $30.

Quote: Simply upgrading my video card to a high end card (not even the "highest) will cost $300 (more if you buy it from Bestbuy or whatever).

Bunk. All the top PC games will run just fine on a 7600GT you can pick up for $130 on Newegg.com. I'm still running a 6800LS with outstanding graphics. You do not have to jump everytime a new card comes out. I know people running the Nvidia Ti4600 and ATI 9600XT playing the latest games in good graphics.


Quote: My basic computer specs are nothing special...
Athlon 64 4000+
1GB Ram
Geforce 7800GT
When I upgraded my PC nearly a year ago it cost me more than a PS 3 will cost me today.

You got ripped then, good specs, but should not have cost you more than $600.

Quote: Show me a system that will cost me $400 dollars (we'll exclude the monitor) that can perform as well as a Xbox 360.

You can build a dual core system with 1GB of ram, 250GB hdd, Nvidia 7600GT for around $400 on Newegg.

The performance of the Xbox 360 won't be utilized for a couple years and they just now started actually using the original Xbox to full specs, so that argument isn't relative. Games and gameplay are. Crysis will run on that machine just beautifully as well as all the classics, HL2, BF2, UT2004, FarCry etc.

Call of Duty 2, supposedly built for the Xbox 360, still has octagon shaped wheels, it's terrible.

Quote: The bottom line is that if you want to buy a PC that can compete with a console on new games your going to invest well over $1,000.

Entirely bullsh!t.

Quote: If you do not want all of the "extra" functions of a new system then you don't need to use them. My neighbor, whom owns a 360, does not use it online, simply puts in a game and plays just like a PS 1, Dreamcast, or whatever.

I play my games online, that is a basic function considering most games have multiplayer and multiplayer is usually far better than the campaigns.

Quote: Oh and I cannot recall the last time I had to install a game onto my 360.

No you just have to wait an hour for it to read the DVD every 5 seconds and make sure you bring those discs everywhere with you if you choose to game elsewhere.

I don't recall the last time I paid an extra $50 every year for online gaming.

Quote: So if you want to be a "hardcore" gamer then you should be looking to play both platforms as each as it's own strengths and weaknesses.Also please take note that you can check any respectable website that offers buyers guides and find that the cost of entry for a "value" or low end system to even attempt to play a new PC game on is more than even a PS 3 $600 version.

I don't know where you are looking, you can build a gaming rig for $600 easily.

..........and If you want to bring a monitor, mouse/keyboard, into the argument, compare the prices of these items to an HDTV you need to view the Xbox 360 on for the "full experience."

[Thrilla]

not going to buy any consoles... the PC is where its at.

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

+1

[Venom]

Quote: Exactly it's been on PC for years and did do well, but it's old and played out. There are only so many WW2 shooters that people can stomach While WW II may be old and played out in your opinion, the two genres that the PC has an advantage is just again released a WW 2 theme RTS..
People seem to not care that much about WW II titles as look how many CoD titles and expansions have been created and sold to great success on the PC as well as the console. Not to mention other franchises set in a WW 2 theme such as Brothers in Arms, etc. Bottom line is that WW 2 is a huge money maker for BOTH PC and console.

Quote: Consoles will always be second class and perpetually be playing catch up in gaming.
PC Gaming has slowed in recent years, especially when compared to consoles. Also take into account a lot of these PC devs are or already have jumped shipped to consoles. Look at big name titles like Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon that are now 1st and foremost console titles when they orginated as PC titles.

Quote: Due out in November for now until they decide to push it back again It's too late to push it back as they production has already started.

Quote: The biggest threat to the PS3 isn't Microsoft, the biggest threat to the PS3 is Sony and their half ass approach to the whole project. Game developers are dropping like flys because they can't even get test models of the PS3 delivered to make games on.
The PS 3 doesn't yet need to worry about their horrible attitude as the name alone will sell units and thus force devs to come to their platform. Atleast this generation...

Quote:
Quantity isn't quality, most of those games score below 5..
Quantity is not quality however I can list a lot more games for a 360 that I'll buy in a year over a PC.

Quote: Console versions are dumbed down and in most cases do not have the same funtionality or story lines of the PC versions.
Can the same not be said about this newest generation of console to PC ports? I played Ghost Recon on the 360 and then on the PC. The PC wasn't even the same game, missing most of the points of the console version. Instead the PC version was a 5 man version of Rainbow Six without the new features of the console.

Quote: lus, the lifespan of PC versions is much longer with mods and online gameplay, while the next gens will all have a live gameplay of some sort it just doesn't compare to Online PC gaming.
Mods are a bonus,but also a negative as they segregate the community. however those are now even making the move to the console. Online gameplay, standard with this generation of consoles. Now lets look at Xbox Live! for online capabilites. An actual working network of which to find games, host games and play with friends. I played a 16 player game of Ghost Recon on my 360 over Live!. Can you do that on a PC? Sure, with a dedicated server (nevermind the large monthly fees for this, nor the common problem of cheaters that are a much larger problem on PC gaming). Now lets look at Steam, they cannot even keep their friends list working, nor are they able to keep their server lists updating correctly. Good luck playing CS for any period of time without running into a blatant cheater.

Quote: Xbox live is decent, but doesn't hold a candle to online PC gaming. MMORPG's are practically non-existant on consoles, Final Fantasy doesn't even compare to PC MMORPG's.
Show me something on a PC that can compete with Xbox Live!. Steam sure can't as it doesn't even work for any period of time.
MMORPG's are practically non-existant on consoles. Yes there are some making the move, talks of WoW on the 360, etc. However they are not there. I played WoW on the PC for awhile, did the raiding etc. Now lets look at this standard of MMO (as it is the new standard). The game, which is watered down gameplay at best, dumbed down for the masses, full of constant cheats/exploits. Sounds like a console gaming as you explained it to me. Nevermind that the deep story and gameplay of this game has you running the same instance over and over for a colored item to drop (random luck if your class' drops) and lets not mention to be even competative at this game you are required to invest atleast a dozen hours a week or you'll be left behind in the eternal treadmil known as World of Warcraft.

Quote:
Very accurate for a console controller is relative, they will never come close to a keyboard/mouse combo. That's not true as some people are simply more "skilled" with two thumbsticks than a keyboard/mouse.

Quote: Those games are marginal on PC's when it comes to Unreal Tournament, Counter-Strike, Half-Life, and Battlefield.
Unreal 07's development is based upon consoles now, Half-Life contains no multiplayer in an of itself, CS is the same gameplay for years now with just now a movement to change it (also the absurb % of cheaters is astonishing), and then we have BF which is becoming a more and more segmented sub groups of players who bought the expansion that EA crapped out. The only one that has a storyline of the three is Half-Life and the others are just new graphics and sometimes the addition of a weapon with the same old gameplay. Should't the PC be burnt out buy now from the same UT being released over and over and over? Well I guess Epic could try a change of pace... oh they have and it's coming to consoles Nov 9th, not the PC :lol:

Quote:
Ahhhh yes, the Dreamcast, such a success Laughing
It was the death of Sega as a console dev, said I know.

Quote: Xbox and PS2 have adapters using PS2 connections which do not have the response of a USB connection. not only that but the drivers are basic one size fits all drivers which is horribly disadvantaged. If I have a USB laser mouse it will not function anywhere near it would with the right drivers on a PC. The mouse support is not true mouse support.
The whole idea of USB is plug and play, not plug in, find the best drivers and then play. That is why PC gaming cannot compete with console gaming's audience... they make things way too complicated for the average user.

Quote: consoles are also highly limited in functionality.
That's why it's a video game console... if it had all the functions of a PC it would be a .... PC. :lol:

Quote: If it's not the same game they shouldn't be trying to pawn it off under the same name as such, that's what they're doing. So I am free to bash them for doing so.
Thats fine, I'm no fan of EA's business practices. However console to PC games seem to do the same thing.

Quote: You can take any PC with a Pentium 4 or an AMD Athlon XP at 2Ghz or higher which most people already own and pop in a gaming grade graphics card for as little as $150 and download the driver.
How much did they pay for that said P4 or AMD XP 2ghz? That is part of the cost of entry... as for a $150 video that's buying a Geforce 7600 level video card which is worse than mine. Yet I still find my PC unable to run new games at their highest level. Also good luck running the new batch of PC games at any level such as the Crysis based games or when the newest UT gets released on it.
Now your not even taking into account that many people cannot even install their own drivers, let alone physically install the video card.

Quote: So I think $150 - $200 is a hell of a lot cheaper than $600. Plus, you don't even have to go anywhere to get games most of the time, you can get most new releases through Steam or Direct2Drive
So indeed your $150-200 range is not the total cost it all, it's simply an upgrade and not a very good one at that. So while your playing PCs and worrying if you'll need to purchase more RAM to jump to a 2gig standard to play the latest game, on a console that isn't a worry because all games are designed around the uniformed power of whatever system they are on.

Quote: The myth of PC's being hard to game on is from the Windows 98 days. XP is for the most part problem free unless the user is an idiot or PC illiterate to begin with, in which case that is not the PC's fault.
Well there goes the vast majority of the world whom is unable to do simple upgrades to their computers. Also not to mention that if your upgrading to Windows XP its going to cost between $100 and $200 on what version you get. It set me $200 back....

Quote: Matching systems are gay
What do you think Steam is? What do you think the server browser in BF 2 is? What do you think All Seeing Eye is? Gamespy? I guess have fun tracking down every server by it's IP from a forum or other web posting.

Quote: as for the rest of your complaints about software, while there are glitches, the majority of problems are user error.
User error which is an inherent problem of requiring specific patching not done for you, installing drivers, new bios, etc... while you don't have to do that as a console. So while it may be user error, that is still a strike against the PC.

Quote: High end is relative.
When I see High End I think running the latest and greatest PC game with all the bells and whistles turned up.

[quote]There are people gaming still using basic 32bit 2Ghz processors and cards as old as Nvidia Geforce Ti4600 and the ATI 9800 Pro, which still destroys the original Xbox in gaming[/qoute]
Well that is an opinion on the actual games. How it's sad when a Xbox can have graphics on par with a technically superior system and actually run smooth.

As for the Alienware, if you look at their high end it's going to cost nearly $6,000.

MS scrapped it? So that means it's not supposed to do it...

As for backwards compatibility, MS went with software emulation which presents problems for them. However if I wanted to play my Xbox one games I wouldn't have sold them or the system.

Overheating is a problem, a problem apparently for the PS 3, and a problem for PCs, especially with the new move once again to SLI and the new generation of Geforces (some generations of Geforce require their own power supply). Also a problem with the consoles overheating is an apparently be placed in mostly enclosed areas like under a TV. This is "user error" however it's something that they should have worked harder to fix. of course a good PC fan can cost from $13 - $150.

A 7600 cannot compete with a 360 graphically. Oustanding graphics is obviously a relative phrase, download Supreme Commander from Fileplanet and tell me how well your system does on that....

Ripped? My video card retails at $290 today. Add in a motherboard, CPU and 1GB of Ram... thats a steal, especially when purchased 1 year ago.

Link to the parts that adds up to $400 please and I'll show how it will not compete with a 360's graphics power.

As for the 360 not being utilized for years to come, pick up EGM next month for Halo 3, watch Gears of War next month as it's released on the Xbox...

Call of Duty 2 has octagon shaped wheels makes the graphics terrible? :lol:

[FCTE]

Venom wrote: PC Gaming has slowed in recent years, especially when compared to consoles.

PC game development has always been slower as the games are more in depth and are built to have a longer shelf life.

Quote: Also take into account a lot of these PC devs are or already have jumped shipped to consoles.

PC games have always been ported to console at the cost of functionality and quality, most become dumbed down arcade games. The PC versions still have a longer shelf life, mods, and better online multiplayer that usually thrives.

Quote: Look at big name titles like Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon that are now 1st and foremost console titles when they orginated as PC titles.

Those aren't really "big" titles. big titles are Half-life, Counter-Strike, Doom, Quake, and Unreal Tournament, games that no matter how old are still in everyday use, especially online.

Quote: It's too late to push it back as they production has already started.


Well be sure to see massive recalls/patches like the Xbox 360 launch.

Quote: The PS 3 doesn't yet need to worry about their horrible attitude as the name alone will sell units and thus force devs to come to their platform. Atleast this generation...

I don't think so. Sony is losing their fanbase to stupid decisions and piss poor planning. Developers can go to work for PC, Xbox, and Wii development.

Quote: Quantity is not quality however I can list a lot more games for a 360 that I'll buy in a year over a PC.

That's not necessarily a good thing or saying much for the quality of your games. A great couple of games or one good MMORPG can last a year just fine, again quality over quantity.

Quote: Can the same not be said about this newest generation of console to PC ports? I played Ghost Recon on the 360 and then on the PC. The PC wasn't even the same game, missing most of the points of the console version. Instead the PC version was a 5 man version of Rainbow Six without the new features of the console.

Ghost Recon isn't that great of a game to begin with. It's got good ratings and sales but it does not measure up to top shelf PC game like Doom etc. Is Ghost Recon like the only game you have on the 360 or something.....? :lol:

Quote: Mods are a bonus,but also a negative as they segregate the community. however those are now even making the move to the console. Online gameplay, standard with this generation of consoles. Now lets look at Xbox Live! for online capabilites. An actual working network of which to find games, host games and play with friends. I played a 16 player game of Ghost Recon on my 360 over Live!. Can you do that on a PC? Sure, with a dedicated server (nevermind the large monthly fees for this, nor the common problem of cheaters that are a much larger problem on PC gaming). Now lets look at Steam, they cannot even keep their friends list working, nor are they able to keep their server lists updating correctly. Good luck playing CS for any period of time without running into a blatant cheater.

Again, Ghost Recon is not that great of game, you need to find a top shelf game to use for your comparisons. Second, Xbox live is not that stable. BF2 servers are down constantly, on a Saturday it will crap out at least 3 times if not more and finding the map you want to play on for a full session is rediculous not to mention the incredibly short game times.........and that's if you can find an available server during peek times......count Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays out.

I've never had a problem with Steam or BF2 on PC. The servers are plenty and there is always plenty of people to play with on stable servers. As far as Counter Strike cheating goes don't use servers not running Valve Anti-Cheat. I've never ran into cheating on secure VAC servers. Please........... :h load up Halo 2 on Xbox Live and I'll show you some major cheating.

Quote: Show me something on a PC that can compete with Xbox Live!.

Yes, it's called the internet, with which you can play loads of better quality games online with.

Quote: Steam sure can't as it doesn't even work for any period of time.

I've never had serious problems with Steam, it seems to be user error.

Quote: MMORPG's are practically non-existant on consoles. Yes there are some making the move, talks of WoW on the 360, etc. However they are not there. I played WoW on the PC for awhile, did the raiding etc. Now lets look at this standard of MMO (as it is the new standard). The game, which is watered down gameplay at best, dumbed down for the masses, full of constant cheats/exploits. Sounds like a console gaming as you explained it to me. Nevermind that the lus a PC is still a PC. The architecture cannot be direclty compared as the console only doesdeep story and gameplay of this game has you running the same instance over and over for a colored item to drop (random luck if your class' drops) and lets not mention to be even competative at this game you are required to invest atleast a dozen hours a week or you'll be left behind in the eternal treadmil known as World of Warcraft.

WoW is incredibly free of cheats and exploits, 10 million users say your opinion is incorrect, but ramble on.

Quote: That's not true as some people are simply more "skilled" with two thumbsticks than a keyboard/mouse.

I call BS as thumbsticks can never equal the quality and accuracy of a keyboard/mouse combo and besides that the controller is still limited without hot keys and the huge combination of buttons that give you more control over the game. I don't see a lot of championship gamers in the console department or raging Console parties.

Quote: Unreal 07's development is based upon consoles now

Unreal 2007's beta testers said while the graphics were nice, the game play was crap and UT2004 owns 2007 in gameplay. Graphics are not everything.

Quote: Half-Life contains no multiplayer in an of itself

Ehhhhhhhh.

Team Fortress? Death Match?

Quote: CS is the same gameplay for years now with just now a movement to change it (also the absurb % of cheaters is astonishing)

I call bulls**t, new maps come out all the time and cheating has been cut down drastically using VAC servers.

Quote: and then we have BF which is becoming a more and more segmented sub groups of players who bought the expansion that EA crapped out.

I call bulls**t again, most people have stayed away from the expansions and the servers for the expansions are only a handful, everyone uses the standard BF2.

Quote: The only one that has a storyline of the three is Half-Life and the others are just new graphics and sometimes the addition of a weapon with the same old gameplay. Should't the PC be burnt out buy now from the same UT being released over and over and over? Well I guess Epic could try a change of pace... oh they have and it's coming to consoles Nov 9th, not the PC :lol:

No because as stated before PC games are made to last a long time and the quality put into the games is so great the games remain great for years and years. for every decent title on a console there are 5,000 filler games. You still need to learn quantity is not quality.

Once again, beta testers for Unreal 2007 have rated it subpar and have 2004 still reigning as far above 2007, especially the console adaption which is rated poor in comparison with it's PC counter part. Controllers will never be equal to Keyboard/Mouse combos in FPS.

Quote: The whole idea of USB is plug and play, not plug in, find the best drivers and then play. That is why PC gaming cannot compete with console gaming's audience... they make things way too complicated for the average user.

USB has a much higher transfer rate of data over a PS2. It's complicated to plug in a mouse?? :roll: :lol:

Quote: That's why it's a video game console... if it had all the functions of a PC it would be a .... PC. :lol:

That's not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about modding games and buttons and functions controllers and consoles can never compare to.

Quote: How much did they pay for that said P4 or AMD XP 2ghz? That is part of the cost of entry...

What did you pay for your TV?? I mean you can't play a console without a TV so it should be considered part of the package cost. Sure you have one sitting around like everyone else, just like people have computers sitting around, but hey if you want to go dime for dime then be fair about it. :roll:

Quote: as for a $150 video that's buying a Geforce 7600 level video card which is worse than mine.

Any game will run on a 7600GT will full functionality, sure you get extra FPS and more pixel pipelines with yours, but it's overkill for most, and side by side, you wouldn't notice.

Quote: Yet I still find my PC unable to run new games at their highest level.

Then you have issues setting your sh!t up. I have a 6800 and have had no problems running any games in high resolutions.

Quote: Also good luck running the new batch of PC games at any level such as the Crysis based games or when the newest UT gets released on it.

Crysis and Unreal 2007 have full DirectX 9 support, even though they are written for Vista and DirectX 10.

Quote: Now your not even taking into account that many people cannot even install their own drivers, let alone physically install the video card.

Computer illiteracy is not part the equation, sorry, no dice. You are only proving that consoles are dumbed down and for the ignorant, which is why the games are subpar.

Quote: So indeed your $150-200 range is not the total cost it all, it's simply an upgrade and not a very good one at that. So while your playing PCs and worrying if you'll need to purchase more RAM to jump to a 2gig standard to play the latest game, on a console that isn't a worry because all games are designed around the uniformed power of whatever system they are on.

Well neither is not including the the price of an HDTV to fully utilize the PS3 and Xbox 360, but hey be hypocritical all you like. I guarantee you any PC will underprice an Xbox 360 and HDTV combo.

A 7600GT is fine for any game. A stick of 1GB of ram at $100 or less. You still got nothing.

Quote: Well there goes the vast majority of the world whom is unable to do simple upgrades to their computers. Also not to mention that if your upgrading to Windows XP its going to cost between $100 and $200 on what version you get. It set me $200 back....

Computer illiteracy is not part of the equation, no dice. Windows 2000 is supported on all new releases prior to Vista's release...........and No copy of Windows cost more than $130 OEM.

Quote: What do you think Steam is? What do you think the server browser in BF 2 is? What do you think All Seeing Eye is? Gamespy? I guess have fun tracking down every server by it's IP from a forum or other web posting.

They don't have matching systems. They simply give you a list of servers to choose from and you pick.

Hey if you want live to limit your gameplay and you think it's cool go for it.

Quote: User error which is an inherent problem of requiring specific patching not done for you, installing drivers, new bios, etc... while you don't have to do that as a console. So while it may be user error, that is still a strike against the PC.

Only for the computer illiterate, being easier just means the controllers and games are usually half the quality of a PC and PC games, easier is not always better.

Quote: When I see High End I think running the latest and greatest PC game with all the bells and whistles turned up.

You don't have to have the latest and greatest gaming rig to do that, most PC's and graphics cards within the last two years will do just fine. It's not as if they port the games so only 1% of users who do upgrade every 6 months can play the game in full. Again, MYTH.

Quote: Well that is an opinion on the actual games. How it's sad when a Xbox can have graphics on par with a technically superior system and actually run smooth.

The original Xbox was NEVER on par with a gaming PC of those standards and the current Xbox will fall way behind in the next year to current PC technology. the PhysX cards are already raising PC's and PC games above the next gen consoles. PC's evolve while Consoles remain stagnant, locked into old hardware.

Quote: As for the Alienware, if you look at their high end it's going to cost nearly $6,000.

What's you're point? Nobody uses those rigs.

Quote: MS scrapped it? So that means it's not supposed to do it...

No, it means Microsoft failed to execute it because they never come through with promises, meanwhile the PS3 and Wii will have internet access.

Quote: As for backwards compatibility, MS went with software emulation which presents problems for them. However if I wanted to play my Xbox one games I wouldn't have sold them or the system.

Irrelevant, that's you, and MS had boasted this feature and as always failed to bring it.

Quote: Overheating is a problem, a problem apparently for the PS 3, and a problem for PCs, especially with the new move once again to SLI and the new generation of Geforces (some generations of Geforce require their own power supply). Also a problem with the consoles overheating is an apparently be placed in mostly enclosed areas like under a TV. This is "user error" however it's something that they should have worked harder to fix. of course a good PC fan can cost from $13 - $150.

You can get a good case for $50 with up to four fans and I've never had anything overheat. Geforce cards have their own full cooling units unlike the graphics chipset in the 360 which only has a heatsink for both the graphics and CPU.

Quote: A 7600 cannot compete with a 360 graphically. Oustanding graphics is obviously a relative phrase, download Supreme Commander from Fileplanet and tell me how well your system does on that....

I have a 6800 and have never had a problem running any game with unbelievable graphics and great FPS. If you want run out and buy a new card every 6 months go right ahead and throw your money away, as stated before the newest games aren't just written for the 1% of gamers who have the latest and greatest, they are written for broad support of PC's and graphics used within a few years.

The 360 has nothing to utilize those graphics and by the time it does it will be passed up by PC's. The 360 will not compare to Vista, DirectX 10, the next gen graphics cards, and the PhysX cards. The PS2 and Xbox could never hold out for long against PC's and they got creamed and the same fate awaits the 360.

Quote: Ripped? My video card retails at $290 today. Add in a motherboard, CPU and 1GB of Ram... thats a steal, especially when purchased 1 year ago.

Not for a single core and only 1GB of ram.

Quote: Link to the parts that adds up to $400 please and I'll show how it will not compete with a 360's graphics power.

Newegg, configure a PC any way you like, you can build a PC itself with without monitor for $400.

It may not compare, but as stated the 360 is not utilizing the hardward, any game on the 360 looks subpar compared to a PC as of right now. By the time the 360 catches up it will be bypassed by PC technology. If you think PC's are just going to stand still while the Xbox 360 is out, that's laughable. They already have new technologies and hardware that the 360 does not have and are waiting for Vista/DirectX 10 to be released before they become the standard.



Quote: As for the 360 not being utilized for years to come, pick up EGM next month for Halo 3, watch Gears of War next month as it's released on the Xbox...

PC's have Crysis and i'm sure they're are other titles, what's your point?

Quote: all of Duty 2 has octagon shaped wheels makes the graphics terrible? :lol:

No the graphics are subpar compared to the PC version anyway, but the wheels being octagon shaped just makes them laughable for the supposedly big bad next gen graphics they are suppose to be. :lol:

[Venom]

Quote: I play my games online, that is a basic function considering most games have multiplayer and multiplayer is usually far better than the campaigns.
Something you can do on Xbox Live!.

Quote: No you just have to wait an hour for it to read the DVD every 5 seconds and make sure you bring those discs everywhere with you if you choose to game elsewhere
Hrmm when I'm playing I don't seem to have a problem. To say console's load times are worse that a PC is not true, look at Company of Heroes.

Quote: I don't recall the last time I paid an extra $50 every year for online gaming. I'll glady play $50 for the features added that to me playing multiplayer via Xbox Live! Gold compared to a PC.

Quote: I don't know where you are looking, you can build a gaming rig for $600 easily
Show me a gaming rig that will not only play all of todays games at their highest setting, but also play newly released games for the next five years at their highest settings.

Quote: ..........and If you want to bring a monitor, mouse/keyboard, into the argument, compare the prices of these items to an HDTV you need to view the Xbox 360 on for the "full experience."
That's fine. One of the HDTV's I use set me back $500. It's larger than any normal computer screen (32'' is the TV). Also I can now watch HD Television. Now a nice monitor will run you $250ish to even more. My particular one is $442 and some change from new age today when purchased last December (it was more than $500 at the time).
While my keyboard is $55 from newegg and the mouse is $40.
Also take note that if you wish to get the "full" experience out of a PC game you need a system that can run it at the highest settings.

Quote: PC game development has always been slower as the games are more in depth and are built to have a longer shelf life.
Modern console games are built to last as well (GRAW has an online downloading expansion much like steam...).
Now even if they have a longer dev time (which isn't true as Raven is known to pump out PC titles in 8 months easily..) is that an excuse to have 1 - 3 games to buy a year? What PC games have you bought from this last Christmas to today? If you belive PCs have a longer shelf life that is due to the fact there are so few games coming out.

Quote: PC games have always been ported to console at the cost of functionality and quality, most become dumbed down arcade games. The PC versions still have a longer shelf life, mods, and better online multiplayer that usually thrives.

Look at Live!, it continues to grow. The most popular FPS on the PC is Counter-Strike. If your good at the game you cannot go a match on a public server without be called a "hackzor". I guess that is thriving... or spending dozens of hours a week farming in WoW? This is hardly the case.

Quote: Well be sure to see massive recalls/patches like the Xbox 360 launch.
Sony computer batteries anyone? Geforce recalls? ATI patches, the constant flow of new drivers to attempt to fix the rendering problems?? If you want to go that route, the list is much longer for the PC.

Quote: don't think so. Sony is losing their fanbase to stupid decisions and piss poor planning. Developers can go to work for PC, Xbox, and Wii development
I agree that Sony is losing some due to their bad decisions, how they are not losing their fanbase, they only lose those that actually read in depth about the system, which isn't a lot of people. The reality is that most people do not really research the PS 3. I talk to my friends all the time, who believe the PS 3 is the second coming of gaming. Why? Because of the name. Do you really think parents read up on the PS3? The vast majority don't. The PS 2 wasnt such a huge success due to it's awesome power, that wasn't the case, the PS 2 was a huge success when it hit the $150 price tag.

Quote: That's not necessarily a good thing or saying much for the quality of your games. A great couple of games or one good MMORPG can last a year just fine, again quality over quantity.

What MMO are you referring to as quality? A great couple of games can last awhile, but if your such a "hardcore" gamer I'd think you'd constantly want to try new things instead of the 3 games worth buying a year on the PC.

Quote: Those aren't really "big" titles. big titles are Half-life, Counter-Strike, Doom, Quake, and Unreal Tournament, games that no matter how old are still in everyday use, especially online.
You know people on the orginal Xbox still play massive amounts of Halo 2... CS, Splinter Cell, etc. There are also many more titles that are played again and again, even offline.

Quote: Ghost Recon isn't that great of a game to begin with. It's got good ratings and sales but it does not measure up to top shelf PC game like Doom etc
Doom? Are you serious? If I recall playing the orginal 4 player release of Doom 3 was just awesome... because of all the new gameplay. Wait that's not the case. In fact the only thing awesome about Doom was the game engine.

Quote: Is Ghost Recon like the only game you have on the 360 or something.....?

No I ebayed it after playing it for the greater part of a year. Now I'm into Splinter Cell and awaiting the soon release of Gears of War and Rainbow Six Vegas. Possibily CoD 3 and Marvel Alliance.

Quote: Again, Ghost Recon is not that great of game, you need to find a top shelf game to use for your comparisons.
Ghost Recon is a console "top shelf game".

Quote: Second, Xbox live is not that stable
I've never had a problem with ANY of the games I've owned. That includes the scoreboards, the video chat, voice chat, etc.

Quote: BF2 servers are down constantly, on a Saturday it will crap out at least 3 times if not more and finding the map you want to play on for a full session is rediculous not to mention the incredibly short game times
I downloaded the BF 2 demo and never had a problem, I cannot speak for the actual release. Now BF 2 on the PC has many of those same problems.

Quote: I've never had a problem with Steam or BF2 on PC Then you don't use them often. Steam is known for being unreliable. It wasn't until few months ago that Steam's friend system even worked. Not only that but it goes down more often than it's up.

Quote: As far as Counter Strike cheating goes don't use servers not running Valve Anti-Cheat. I've never ran into cheating on secure VAC servers.
Read any CS based website. cheating is a major issue on VAC servers.

Quote: up Halo 2 on Xbox Live and I'll show you some major cheating.

There are cheaters there on modded Xboxs, however it's not nearly the same number as CS. CS is the game to cheat on lol.

Quote: Yes, it's called the internet, with which you can play loads of better quality games online with
The same internet full of widespread virsus', rampant need for PC protection (look at the sticky thread above), and high cost. Show me a program like Live that will match you up for games? The closet thing the PC has is steam. Steam is not fully unified and standard like Live!
No contest.

Quote: I've never had serious problems with Steam, it seems to be user error. Steam seem sto have a different opinion.
support.steampowered.com/cgi-bin/steampowered.cfg/php/enduser/std_alp.php

Quote: WoW is incredibly free of cheats and exploits, 10 million users say your opinion is incorrect, but ramble on.
I guess you've never witnessed a gold farmer using exploits or the special radar to find anyone in a zone and see their gear/race/level no matter the distance? Yes cheat free. Didn't Blizzard just recently ban a couple thousand accounts? 30,000 to be more like it. But yes it's cheat free.No one in WoW cheats....
Quote: The banned accounts were taking part in activities that violate the game's Terms of Use, including using third-party programs to farm gold and items, which severely impacts the economy of a realm and the overall game enjoyment for all players.
To sum it up... cheating.

Quote: I call BS as thumbsticks can never equal the quality and accuracy of a keyboard/mouse combo and besides that the controller is still limited without hot keys and the huge combination of buttons that give you more control over the game
I guess that's your opinion. However I'd like to point out a button is a "hot key".

Quote: I don't see a lot of championship gamers in the console department or raging Console parties
$20 grand
This guy won $20,000 being good at Halo....
There are all sorts of game tournies on consoles...

Quote: Unreal 2007's beta testers said while the graphics were nice, the game play was crap and UT2004 owns 2007 in gameplay. Graphics are not everything. So they don't like the controls? I've never seen a game where everyone enjoyed the controls.

Quote: Ehhhhhhhh.

Team Fortress? Death Match?
.
I was referring to HL 2. I've moved on from a game release in 1998.

Quote: I call bulls**t, new maps come out all the time and cheating has been cut down drastically using VAC servers.

If you find cheatings levels acceptable in CS then I don't even know what to say:lol:
As for the new maps, I don't think I've seen a new map released by Valve that wasn't a simplel remake from the original CS...

Quote: I call bulls**t again, most people have stayed away from the expansions and the servers for the expansions are only a handful, everyone uses the standard BF2.

That's fine. Load up the servers and you'll see plenty of expansion required servers. If they didn't sell, they wouldn't sell them.

Quote: Any game will run on a 7600GT will full functionality, sure you get extra FPS and more pixel pipelines with yours, but it's overkill for most, and side by side, you wouldn't notice.
A simple higher resolution is noticeable as is fluid FPS... yes you would notice.

Quote: Then you have issues setting your sh!t up. I have a 6800 and have had no problems running any games in high resolutions
What games are you running at what resolution on what settings? Thats great running CoH on max res with the lowest texture quality.

Quote: Crysis and Unreal 2007 have full DirectX 9 support, even though they are written for Vista and DirectX 10.
Yes they have full DirectX 9 support because if they didn't you couldn't play them on XP (MS said they will not release directx 10 on XP).
Now will these games run at the highest settings on your or my system? Not a chance in hell.

Quote: Computer illiteracy is not part the equation, sorry, no dice. You are only proving that consoles are dumbed down and for the ignorant, which is why the games are subpar.
Your how arguement on price evolves around a person being able to buy a video card and install it themselves. Yes I just rolled a 12. I'm proving why PC's gaming is no where near consoles because people just don't want to deal with all the extra parts, to include manual patching, new vid drivers, etc...

Quote: Well neither is not including the the price of an HDTV to fully utilize the PS3 and Xbox 360, but hey be hypocritical all you like. I guarantee you any PC will underprice an Xbox 360 and HDTV combo.
We'll beat $900. Get me the latest and greatest that can play the games with all the games details on high and do it smoothly. Don't forget your monitor, case, motherboard, ram, video card, sound card, HD, DVD drive, fans, ethernet cord, mouse, speakers (unless included in the monitor), a copy of Windows and whatever else I've passed.

Quote: A 7600GT is fine for any game. A stick of 1GB of ram at $100 or less. You still got nothing.
show me links to your computer that will be good and play all the new games at the highest settings for the next 5 years. You have a $900 cap.

Quote: Computer illiteracy is not part of the equation, no dice. Windows 2000 is supported on all new releases prior to Vista's release...........and No copy of Windows cost more than $130 OEM. Show me in the links of your $900 high end comp.

Quote: They don't have matching systems. They simply give you a list of servers to choose from and you pick.

Hey if you want live to limit your gameplay and you think it's cool go for it
You can select your servers on Xbox Live! as well, I guess it's a bad thing to not have to deal with that hassle if you just want to jump into a quick game.... :lol:

Quote: Only for the computer illiterate, being easier just means the controllers and games are usually half the quality of a PC and PC games, easier is not always better
Show me your list of high quality PC games in the last year.

Quote: You don't have to have the latest and greatest gaming rig to do that, most PC's and graphics cards within the last two years will do just fine. It's not as if they port the games so only 1% of users who do upgrade every 6 months can play the game in full. Again, MYTH.

It's not a myth, its a well known fact that if you don't have the lastest and greatest 6 months down the road a game that actually has improved graphics will take *gasp* improved specs.

Quote: The original Xbox was NEVER on par with a gaming PC of those standards and the current Xbox will fall way behind in the next year to current PC technology. the PhysX cards are already raising PC's and PC games above the next gen consoles. PC's evolve while Consoles remain stagnant, locked into old hardware.
Locked in old hardware that allows the Devs to develop specifically for it.. rather than the dozens of Video cards and whatever is set to come out? Yes that doesn't sound bad to me but rather a positive note.

Quote: What's you're point? Nobody uses those rigs.

Then they wouldn't sell them.... its a common business practice to price things to sell and only sell things that sell.

Quote: What's you're point? Nobody uses those rigs.

They claim to, they haven't shown anything that I've seen.

Quote: Irrelevant, that's you, and MS had boasted this feature and as always failed to bring it.

Um quite a few work....
Source

Quote: You can get a good case for $50 with up to four fans and I've never had anything overheat. Geforce cards have their own full cooling units unlike the graphics chipset in the 360 which only has a heatsink for both the graphics and CPU.
Well good for you :lol:. A lot of other people have had overheating issues, I've never had it when my Xbox 360.. I guess it doesn't exist.

Quote: Not for a single core and only 1GB of ram.

A xbox 360 is a triple core... buy that on a PC :lol:

Quote: No the graphics are subpar compared to the PC version anyway, but the wheels being octagon shaped just makes them laughable for the supposedly big bad next gen graphics they are suppose to be.
What has next gen graphics on the PC?

[Venom]

Quote: When Microsoft’s Xbox 360 game console shipped last year, its Xenos graphics core brought with it a unified shader architecture, a first in a GPU Yet to all the knowledge I've flipped through I have been unable to find a PC card that has this very feature of on chip ram. Note even a $540 video card from Newegg...$540 for just a video card????
Oh and let's not forget how well within the next five years many PC games will make the move to DX 10 for it's added features. So for example, Crysis contains coding that takes advantage of DX 10, something you cannot do on your system even if you spent $6,000 today on a computer. In fact you'd still have to purchase Windows Vista for an "upgrade fee" of $100. Sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me. Now the Xbox 360 does NOT support DX 10 and thus will not be able to perform DX 10 specific features, however a side effect of that is that I will not be forced to spend $100 extra on my 360 to be able to continue playing new games released on this platform. Hop into the Supreme Commander GPGNet and you'll find that the word there is that 2 gig of ram is recommended for this title. Of course that's just an extra $100 for the RAM right to play Supreme Commander the way it was meant to be played. So wait for two titles on your PC your going to be dropping $100 for a new OS for Crysis, $250 for the "recommended" level of video card, $100 for ram for Supreme Commander and then the $100 cost of the two games. So for two games, playing at the "recommended" specs ($450 upgrade for you or more than the cost of an Xbox Premium) you still will be unable to achieve the quality of graphics as seen in the pictures at a acceptable framerate. Also you get to have all of the fun attempting to find the right drivers that give you the best performance per game, of course it's not likely they'll be the same driver. Oh and to top it all of you'll be the only person playing this at the same time on your computer, if someone else wants to play they are required to buy their own computer, their own copy of the game, a hub/switch. If I want someone to play with me on my 360 I buy another controller.... not another TV, system, and copy of the same game. Of course I can play with up to 4 people on my one console and since I'm not a fan of waiting my turn on a keyboard... I think I perfer the much more cost effective avenue of gaming known as a video game console.
With that said yes I play tons of PC games, I used to play WoW a lot, I've played Ultima Online, Doom, Starcraft, Diablo, C&C, TA, CoD, CS, Half-Life 1-2, Unreal, etc. I know exactly what PC games hold, what the cost of entry is as well and it's a lot higher than consoles. That isn't even debatable when you want to talk of playing new games. It's fine to ignore the cost of PC gaming when you want to play it at the "way it's meant to be played", however if someone's parents are buying their parents they more often than not do not realize this.
Simply put a $400 investment in a Xbox 360, a $250 in a Wii, or even a $600 PS 3 will take you a lot further as far as game usage when compared to a PC of similiar cost... because for $600 a PC is taking you no place as far as new games.

Quote: WoW is incredibly free of cheats and exploits, 10 million users say your opinion is incorrect, but ramble on.
WoW has 10 million? Where did you get this? Last month they had 7 million.........7 million
As for the users finding my opinion incorrect that is absurd because one only needs to read the official forumns to find loads of threads devoted to exploits and cheats. Not to mention a simple goggle search will find you various cheat programs. Nevermind that though.
WoW cheaters
Quote: Only for the computer illiterate, being easier just means the controllers and games are usually half the quality of a PC and PC games, easier is not always better.

Being easy makes something of less quality? That's a rather absurd charge. Look at WoW since you chose to point out MMOs. Look how easy they are. Raiding is rather easy if you have a competent player, the hard part is getting 40 people. WoW is a game filled with children and their childish spam and acts. I can do nothing about that besides /ignore them, however in Xbox Live! I can make sure I never play any game I own or buy in the future with that person by leaving negative feedback.
There are many very high quality console games such as FF, Rainbow Six, GRAW, Halo 2, Mario, Zelda, Metal Gear, Virtua Fighter, Killzone, SOCOM, Splinter Cell, etc.

You make claims that you have never had defective computer hardware which may be true. However millions of people do have this problem. I've ordered two motherboards from Newegg that were defective (as you would say... user error). There are video cards that just die, CPUs that are defective, HDs that are defective etc. This is a problem with any manufactured item.

As for me having apparent problems setting my system up. That's untrue. My system is very clean of any background programs not required in order to give as much system resources to the game I am playing. However new games my system cannot handle running at their max settings, while that is no problem for my Xbox 360.

Quote: Any game will run on a 7600GT will full functionality, sure you get extra FPS and more pixel pipelines with yours, but it's overkill for most, and side by side, you wouldn't notice.
If running a game at max settings at 30FPS most of the time is overkill then sure....


Your whole argument is based upon buying a cheap system that will not run games that continue to look superior for the next 5 years. You've taken the elitist view that PC games are somehow superior to console games based upon the use of a keyboard/mouse. If it's that big of a deal a dev could design a game around that on a console.
Another simple fact is Steam is the closet thing to Xbox Live! on the PC. You cite the internet being the PC's version of live however that's not the case as the internet is not based around just computers. Cell phones, PDAs, blackberries, game consoles, use the internet. The internet is a base of which things can be developed off of such as Xbox Live! or Steam. Now Steam has apparently had no issues (which is false as you can google steam problems/issues or whatever and find hundreds of them). Of course Xbox Live! is not perfect, however it is levels above Steam at this point. As for pointing out you can buy games on steam (mostly mods/older titles at this point) is a great feature. All three consoles support the abilility to download older games to their HD as well. Me personally, if I wanted those older games so bad I wouldn't have sold them to begin with...
So you can attempt to say all these things that are easily debunked about a PC being equal to a console in price now. My monitor costed more than my Xbox 360 Premium. And the best part is I never have to worry about upgrading it to play the games released on it 3 years from now at a decent framerate. Now while the PC will overtake this generation of consoles after awhile (as is always the case) the next console generation will overtake that PC in the coming generation. This is always the case, however this generation atleast is still much less for the cost of entry that even a value gaming rig which cannot play today's newest releases on their highest settings.

So while my 20 inch LCD display isn't required, I do need a good monitor to get the most out of my computer games. Just as an HDTV isn't required but I need it to get the most out of my console.

My favorite line from yours posts is this : Quote: You got ripped then, good specs, but should not have cost you more than $600.
Taking into account this system was purchased a year ago first off... then jumping to the fact that the same video card today will cost at the cheapest on Newegg will be $200. Of course if you read the reviews you will see this card has had it's share of hardware problems and failures (user error no doubt).
Now you add a Athlon 3800+ into the fight and that will set you back $100 from NewEgg. So we've hit the $300 mark (or a Xbox 360 Core system). Crap we don't have memory, a motherboard, HD, sound card. Hrmmm
Sound Blaster Audigy 2 will hit you for around $70. Crap we've almost hit a 360 Premium...
Ok lets go to the good ole motherboard.MSI K8N Neo4 motherboard will run you about $65. Crap we're already past a premium now at $435.
200GB maxtor HD will set ya back nearly $70.
Now for the 1GB of ram.... 2 sticks of Wintec AMPO ram to combine to equal 1 gb will set me back $94.
Hrmm we have hit $599. Crap I forgot to get a case damn. Looks like it'll cost me more than $600 today.
So you apparently don't have a very clear view on what a PC costs either. :lol:
Oh yes at the time of my purchase my video card was $370 and not even the best video card available. A 7800GTX held an MSRP of $600 (or a PS 3 premium).
Oh and as for Crysiswww.boomtown.net/en_uk/articles/art.view.php?id=11955

Quote: Recommended Requirements
CPU: Dual-core CPU (Athlon X2/Pentium D)
Graphics: Nvidia 7800GTX/ATI X1800XT (SM 3.0) or DX10 equivalent
RAM: 1.5Gb
HDD: 6GB
Internet: 512k+ (128k+ upstream)
Optical Drive: DVD
Software: DX10 with Windows Vista
To be able to run the game as they intend I will need to upgrade. I'll need an additional 512 megs of ram..... I'll need to upgrade my entire OS and also apparently my Geforce is no longer up to snuff.
So if I wanted to play the game how it looks on the internet (you know.. the way it's intended to be played) I'll be dropping atleast $300 for the new video card, OS, and ram. Sounds like a heck of a deal since I just upgraded a year ago.... Now my computer has a bit better specs than yours as you've posted. So apparently if you want to play the game at a recommended level (again as intended... of course the screenshots generally from Alienware $6,000 type systems) you'll be plopping down $300 + too.
I'll keep you updated on when I'm required to update my Xbox 360 premium ($400) to be able to play a game in a year... oh wait it's been out rougly a year and that has yet to come and I don't see a PC game available that looks as good as even Rainbow Six Vegas let alone Gears Of War.

[Venom]

So lets look at a game due for release this month on both a Xbox 360 and the PC.
Rainbow Six 3 Vegas... a Unreal 3 engine game
Now lets say I'm Joe Shoe that wishes to play this game. Well lets look at the System Req: Quote: Supported OS:Windows XP (only)

Processor:P4 3Ghz or AMD equivalent

RAM:1024 Mb

Video Card:128MB, Shader Model 3 and DirectX 9.0c compatible (see supported list*)

Sound Card:DirectX 9.0c compatible

DirectX Version:DirectX 9.0c

CD-ROM:DVD-ROM 4X

Peripherals Supported:
Mouse, keyboard, headsets, Xbox360 Controller, etc.

Multiplay:
Local area network (LAN) and/or 128kbit Cable/DSL connection for online game
Doesn't sound too bad. Source
So I decided hey why not shop around at Newegg to build a PC (of course that would require the person's ability to do so or at the very least know a person that could). I just wanted something that could run this game on it's minimum req.
What was my final cost from new egg (includes all PC parts and monitor)?
$596 was the total (not to include shipping cost).
P4 3Ghz $81
motherboard $43
512 ram $47
512 ram $47
Video card $31
Sound card $8
DVD Rom $17
Keyboard $3
Mouse $3
Windows XP $90
Hard Drive (40gig) $40
Lan card $4
Case with power supply $60
Monitor (15''CRT) $105
Speakers $7
Heatsink/fan $10
Total Cost
$596...
Oh yeah gotta buy the game : $646
Those are of course using the BARE minimum requiremnts for this game and also including a 15" Monitor (the cheapest LCD was more expensive).
Now even though this is the bare minimum I question if the game would run at a playable level, but lets move on.

Now lets say I want to buy a Xbox 360 version of this game. Ok so what do I need? I can buy the Xbox 360 Core system. We'll I'll want to save a game so that's going to cost me $40 extra for the memory unit. Now I need a TV, hrmmm I can go with a 20' TV from best buy for $98. Oh well what do I have left? Ah yes the game... that will be $60. So let's see, a $300 Xbox 360 Core, a $40 memory unit, a 20" TV, and the game? That will be $498 or a $148 difference. Another key difference is that since I'm forced to pay atleast $646 for the same game and a computer that is said to "run" the game I know for a fact that I will not be able to play this Unreal 3 engine based shooter with the textures turned up high, or the shadows on high or anything else like that. Oh and then there is the hassle of the patches, the drivers, the $3 mouse that is oh so terrific and of course bios and installing Windows.
So now I take my 360 home, unbox it and the TV, hook them up to each other and of course a eletrical outlet, put the disc in and I am playing. Not a lot of hassle here. I know the game will run fine as it's built around the 360 and I don't have to worry about the hardware not being enough for this new release... the game was developed for this very uniformed spec.
Oh and i get 5" more of view with the extra money I saved.
No I cannot run the Xbox in HD, but neither can the said PC run Vegas in HD. The PC version, unlike even the non HD Xbox 360 game running, will not even be able to take advantage of all the games graphics have to offer even outside of HD.
So again this shows that your price of entry for a PC compared to a console is out of wack. :lol:
I hope I didn't scare you away with my "supportive evidence" and my "reasoning". Oh and feel free to call BS all you want because the numbers don't lie.

[quote=FCTE]If I have a USB laser mouse it will not function anywhere near it would with the right drivers on a PC.[/quote] Is what you've said before.... and then you followed this with Quote: USB has a much higher transfer rate of data over a PS2. It's complicated to plug in a mouse??

So no it's not complciated to plug in a mouse, however finding the "right drivers" certainly adds complications. I'm sorry no one else in the entire internet is able to use a computer without running into some sort of conflict when installing all sorts of drivers, software, running Steam etc. It's all "user error". :lol:

[quote=FCTE]What did you pay for your TV?? I mean you can't play a console without a TV so it should be considered part of the package cost. Sure you have one sitting around like everyone else, just like people have computers sitting around, but hey if you want to go dime for dime then be fair about it.[/quote]
I'll be fair and go dime to dime (which I have).
These are the prices I paid for my current PC.
Case $60
Motherboard $100
Athlon 64 4000+ $355
2x 512MB Ram $110
Geforce 7800 GT $370
Sound Card $49
200GB HD $87
DVD burner $40
OS $60
Monitor $500
Keyboard $30
Mouse $40
and a game to play on the new comp? $50
Final Cost $1,851. These prices are based upon prices when purchased last August/Sept area.
My Xbox
$400 Xbox system
$500 HDTV
$60 one game
Total Cost $960 or nearly one half of the cost of the PC.
So I've gone DIME to DIME and shown that hey a Xbox 360 WITH HDTV is cheaper than my computer :LOL:
[quote=FCTE] I guarantee you any PC will underprice an Xbox 360 and HDTV combo.[/quote]
Ouch burnn. We'll let's see I have seven friends with 360s. Two of them paid more for their Xbox/HD combo than did for a PC (they have 50" + TVs to play on)

Quote: Any game will run on a 7600GT will full functionality, sure you get extra FPS and more pixel pipelines with yours, but it's overkill for most, and side by side, you wouldn't notice.
What resolution do you run BF 2 at? Sure it's overkill if your playing games from 2004 and prior.....

Quote: Then you have issues setting your sh!t up. I have a 6800 and have had no problems running any games in high resolutions
Of course it's user error!! :lol:
I guess CoH is a great game at MAX res, but at the cost of low texture quality, low to no shadows, etc.
Go play the Supreme Commander Beta, I certainly don't have the best computer when talking to the other guys, and their systems hit a wall after any time of play.

Quote: Crysis and Unreal 2007 have full DirectX 9 support, even though they are written for Vista and DirectX 10
Yes they do, however those versions cannot do some of the effects as DX 10. So if you want the "full experience", go pick up Vista and a video card that will support DX 10. Ouch

Quote: Well neither is not including the the price of an HDTV to fully utilize the PS3 and Xbox 360, but hey be hypocritical all you like There is nothing hypocritical about not including the price of a TV with a Xbox while not including the price of a monitor. However since you wished for this comparison you got it. But again the PC costs more.

Quote: You don't have to have the latest and greatest gaming rig to do that, most PC's and graphics cards within the last two years will do just fine. It's not as if they port the games so only 1% of users who do upgrade every 6 months can play the game in full. Again, MYTH.
Well this answer, in regards to my comment about requiring the latest and greatest PC to run a bame with all the bells and whistles turned up, you can simply look at video card reviews, system reviews in magazines and all over the internet.
What version of the 6800 do you have anyways? I hope you atleast went for the 6800 Ultra, but even if you did that cannot even run Fear with all of the bells and whistles at the high resolutions at above 30fps. Now I a newer game will require more power as the graphics move forward, so your FPS are only going down further. FEAR is already over a year old and your system is already chugging along. Oh and take note that this test system is running an Athlon 64 FX-62 CPU (which is much better than your and my CPU). Oh it's cost? About $700. So realisticly your rig probably will not hit 20FPS in fear in the high res running all of the bells and whistles.

Firing Squad Tests

Oh here is some great "user" error reports from the newest Battlefield.
Quote: Greetings Battlefield Soldiers,

Over the course of last week some players have experienced issues with stats & awards, punk buster, and master server disconnects. We wanted to update everyone on the current status for each of these points as we move into the weekend.

Stats & Awards: Last weekend we made updates that resolved the issues causing some awards or stats to not be properly awarded to players. We will be continuing to monitor player experience and the stat servers in order to make the proper adjustments to maintain the system. Unfortunately any stats or awards not received before this update can not be replaced.

PunkBuster: Those players who have experienced issues with the punk buster auto update should visit the punk buster site and follow their directions for manual updates. We are currently working with punk buster to resolve player issues and allow for a smoother experience and to eliminate the server kick issues that are still affecting some players.

EA Master Server Disconnects: We have added additional enhancements to our server infrastructure to eliminate the majority of the disconnection problems. We will be putting forth every effort through the weekend to completely eliminate this issue for all our players.

We will continue to update everyone on our status until these issues are resolved and no longer standing in the way of your enjoyment of Battlefield 2142. Have a great weekend and we will see you on the Battlefield.

Your Dice Live Team

Anything else you've called "BS" on that hasn't been debunked yet?