Political Crossfire Forums

MoscowMatt · Joined: 16 Sep 2005 Posts: 1458 Location: UK / Hungary

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5343188.stm

No not by the US or UK but by Amnesty international of all people!!

Good to see they have finally acknowledged the truth about Hezbollah!!

fiction416 · Joined: 02 Sep 2006 Posts: 620 Location: purgatory

I read abou this earlier - about time!!

antonio62 · Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 1:48 pm Post subject:

They say the same about Israel. Both sides commit war crimes this isn't anything new.

slitedeviance · Joined: 02 Sep 2006 Posts: 1507

Question is, how far do we think this will go?

I'd be surprised if the UN Enquiry they are after actually came about. On the one hand you have the IDF and their 'internal enquiries' (ha ha ha) and on the other you have Hizbollah.

Still nice to know that both sides will be at least recorded in history for this.

solus · Joined: 13 Sep 2006 Posts: 12

I feel it's important to note that they have accused both sides; this would seem to show a much greater level of disinterest and neutrality than many others have shown in the past

slitedeviance · Joined: 02 Sep 2006 Posts: 1507

solus wrote: I feel it's important to note that they have accused both sides; this would seem to show a much greater level of disinterest and neutrality than many others have shown in the past

Thats why Amnesty rock!

mr_happy · Joined: 29 Mar 2006 Posts: 319

i hear talk of IDF warcrimes, yet I rarely ever see specific examples that are actual warcrimes. Killing civillians in and of itself is not a warcrime. They have to be killed purposely, intentionally, and have to be the primary target of the attack. Bad aim or faulty intelligence does not constitute a war crime.

Plato & Socrates · Joined: 24 Dec 2005 Posts: 1743 Location: London

MoscowMatt wrote: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5343188.stm

No not by the US or UK but by Amnesty international of all people!!

Good to see they have finally acknowledged the truth about Hezbollah!!

Your absolutely right Hezbollah committed war-crimes. There is absolutely no place or justification, for the indiscriminate bombing of Israeli civilians. Amnesty have long ago accused Hezbollah of war crimes. Should some of there leaders be indicted to face those charges at the Hague? Absolutely. More than likely the world will just turn a blind eye, and not set a standard. Why? Because when these same bodies accuse western governments of war-crimes, who's going to enforce it?

For example; who's going to attempt to extract any U.S president in the future, to possibly face war-crime charges at the Hague? In bringing Nasrallah & Co to account, the west will open up Pandora's box for themselves.
Amnesty have also observed, documented and accused Israel of war-crimes. I wish Olmert and his war cabinet, would be hauled in front of the Hague, but that is just a wish. Its a sign of the times we live in Moscowmatt.

MoscowMatt · Joined: 16 Sep 2005 Posts: 1458 Location: UK / Hungary

Plato & Socrates wrote: MoscowMatt wrote: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5343188.stm

No not by the US or UK but by Amnesty international of all people!!

Good to see they have finally acknowledged the truth about Hezbollah!!

Your absolutely right Hezbollah committed war-crimes. There is absolutely no place or justification, for the indiscriminate bombing of Israeli civilians. Amnesty have long ago accused Hezbollah of war crimes. Should some of there leaders be indicted to face those charges at the Hague? Absolutely. More than likely the world will just turn a blind eye, and not set a standard. Why? Because when these same bodies accuse western governments of war-crimes, who's going to enforce it?

For example; who's going to attempt to extract any U.S president in the future, to possibly face war-crime charges at the Hague? In bringing Nasrallah & Co to account, the west will open up Pandora's box for themselves.
Amnesty have also observed, documented and accused Israel of war-crimes. I wish Olmert and his war cabinet, would be hauled in front of the Hague, but that is just a wish. Its a sign of the times we live in Moscowmatt.

There's no doubting that Western forces have committed war crimes, the difference is in the case of the West is that the crimes are done by rogue platoons/ individuals as opposed to being orders from the top carried out.Hence why the likes of Olmert do not have a case to answer.

slitedeviance · Joined: 02 Sep 2006 Posts: 1507

mr_happy wrote: i hear talk of IDF warcrimes, yet I rarely ever see specific examples that are actual warcrimes. Killing civillians in and of itself is not a warcrime. They have to be killed purposely, intentionally, and have to be the primary target of the attack. Bad aim or faulty intelligence does not constitute a war crime.

Actually they can. You need to go and read the Geneva conventions.

In particular the 1977 amendments (Article 51).

mr_happy · Joined: 29 Mar 2006 Posts: 319

sorry, but bad aim is not a war crime. If that were the case, any army that ever fought would be hauled in for war crimes. I would appreciate any referrence to an army that has never killed one non-combatant.

Also, non-military status targets lose their immunity once they are used to house, hold, or are used by combatants. A mosque is a non-military target, however when one gunman taks a position in a minaret it loses its status. When civillians are used as bunkers, opposing troops taking fire are allowed to return.

lilwolf · Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 11646 Location: idaho

MoscowMatt wrote: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5343188.stm

No not by the US or UK but by Amnesty international of all people!!

Good to see they have finally acknowledged the truth about Hezbollah!!

Damn i just about spit coffee on that one.... It is about time that someone points the fingers at the right people that are guilty of starting all this mess.
I doubt that anything could or would come of it, but at least someone is pointing at the bad guys for a change.
yipeeeee............ :bana:

slitedeviance · Joined: 02 Sep 2006 Posts: 1507

mr_happy wrote: sorry, but bad aim is not a war crime. If that were the case, any army that ever fought would be hauled in for war crimes. I would appreciate any referrence to an army that has never killed one non-combatant.

Also, non-military status targets lose their immunity once they are used to house, hold, or are used by combatants. A mosque is a non-military target, however when one gunman taks a position in a minaret it loses its status. When civillians are used as bunkers, opposing troops taking fire are allowed to return.

Go and read the Geneva Conventions, instead of guessing about the situation. The cause of the death (ie: Bad aim, faulty intelligence, faulty weapons etc.) is not the only factor to consider. I have never said that there has been a war with no civilian caualties or suffering, but under the terms of the Geneva convention each force has a responsibility to protect civilians, regardless of nationality or position towards that force. If that means not deploying front line troops who have bad aim then that is what is required.

lilwolf · Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 11646 Location: idaho

antonio62 wrote: They say the same about Israel. Both sides commit war crimes this isn't anything new.

Maybe but i would say the hezbolla jerks are a little more viscious, in that the have been committing terrorist activities for a long time and the fact that someone is finally pointing the fingers at the is a damn good thing.

Besides you do not see Israel just killing innocent people on purpose.

ubikk · Joined: 27 Jul 2006 Posts: 2059

MoscowMatt wrote: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5343188.stm

No not by the US or UK but by Amnesty international of all people!!

Good to see they have finally acknowledged the truth about Hezbollah!!

Will you support them now? I have supported them in the past.

fiction416 · Joined: 02 Sep 2006 Posts: 620 Location: purgatory

lilwolf wrote: antonio62 wrote: They say the same about Israel. Both sides commit war crimes this isn't anything new.

Maybe but i would say the hezbolla jerks are a little more viscious, in that the have been committing terrorist activities for a long time and the fact that someone is finally pointing the fingers at the is a damn good thing.

Besides you do not see Israel just killing innocent people on purpose.

Well, since ALL people are considered innocent unitl proven guilty, in a court of law, I would have to TOTALLY diagree with you.

Do you support the IDF acting with impunity, summarily convicting people on the spot, and being judge jury & executioner?

lilwolf · Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 11646 Location: idaho

According to this link the Hezbollah outfit of gutless cowards have done quite a lot of things that warrant their being named bad guys.

According to the artice here the pioneered suicide bombing or what ever term a person chooses to put on it.

Cut throat savages they are. I find no innocence in these guys what so ever.

www.cdi.org/terrorism/hezbollah-pr.cfm

fiction416 · Joined: 02 Sep 2006 Posts: 620 Location: purgatory

lilwolf wrote: According to this link the Hezbollah outfit of gutless cowards have done quite a lot of things that warrant their being named bad guys.

According to the artice here the pioneered suicide bombing or what ever term a person chooses to put on it.

Cut throat savages they are. I find no innocence in these guys what so ever.

www.cdi.org/terrorism/hezbollah-pr.cfm

Okay, but you are not looking at the entire picture;

Quote: Hezbollah, it should be recalled, emerged during Israel’s 1982 invasion of Lebanon and gained legitimacy not only through military feats but also through reconstruction and development work. It emerged as the premier advocate and provider for poor and middle class Shia in a society that had long marginalized them. Over time, the organization took on schooling, healthcare, loans, and other forms of social assistance. Since 1988, Hezbollah has implemented more than 10,000 projects to promote agricultural development, build homes and businesses, and provide water, sewage, and electricity. Supporters and critics alike have long acknowledged that Hezbollah is the most effective welfare provider in Lebanon—far more effective than the state.

Hezbollah’s social work has focused on Shia areas, but it is a broader movement than is often acknowledged. To be sure, some services are reserved for the families of “martyrs,” or fighters who died in struggles against Israel. But Hezbollah and its network of affiliated charities reach beyond the Shia community. In the early 1990s, when Christian families began to return to Haret Hreik in the southern suburb of Beirut after the civil war, Hezbollah helped them rebuild their homes and businesses. During visits to health clinics this summer, I spoke with non-Shia beneficiaries who chose Hezbollah’s medical services on the basis of quality and cost. Given the choice, of course, most Maronite Christians would probably not send their children to a Hezbollah-run school, but they are willing to accept healthcare and financial assistance from the organization.

LINK

Hezbollah provides a wide variety of social programs to the Lebanese...

Also, you realize that only 6/193 countries consider Hezbollah to be a terrorist Org.

programmusic · Joined: 22 Apr 2006 Posts: 908

fiction416 wrote:
Hezbollah provides a wide variety of social programs to the Lebanese...

Also, you realize that only 6/193 countries consider Hezbollah to be a terrorist Org.

clearly you don't support hezbollah, clearly.

lilwolf · Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 11646 Location: idaho

Still cold blooded killers that need to be killed off as the slime they are.

Another link for you if you think they are such good guys.

www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0908746.html

Scroll down and they are indeed listed. They are butchers and need removed.

End of conversation on the pigs.