Political Crossfire Forums

[Nathyn]

In case you haven't heard of Maddox, he runs the website, "The Best Page In the Universe," that is, maddox.xmission.net (now thebestpageintheuniverse.net). He occasionally writes his opinion on various issues. As I've mentioned in the past, I argue that I should rule the world on philosophical grounds. Maddox is among a very short list of people whom I'd choose as my successor.

Well, in response to the crockumentary on 9/11, "Loose Change," he wrote an article, entitled, "There is no 9/11 conspiracy you morons." This is old news, but it's sort of obscure and I haven't ever seen it here. Plus, there are a fair amount of Liberals here who seem to advocate 9/11 conspiracy theories.

I agree with Maddox completely.

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons
Quote:





I've been getting a lot of email lately from people sending me this stupid 9/11 conspiracy video called "Loose Change." I've tried to ignore it for months now, but you morons keep forwarding it to me, and I keep having to add more email addresses to my spam filter. The ironic part is that I'm a huge conspiracy nut, and even I can't stomach this bulls**t. For example, I believe that there is a small, reptile-like creature called Chupacabra that s*cks the blood of goats in Mexico. Area 51? Hell yes. Roswell? Pass me the Kool-Aid. But "Loose Change" elevates bulls**t to an artform. Watching this video is like being bukakked with stupid.

Unlike others who debunk 9/11 conspiracy theories, or "cons" for short, I'm not going to bother with going through intricate point-by-point rebuttals, or pointing out the hundreds of factual inaccuracies and outright lies in this "documentary," because I don't need to. In fact, I can debunk the entire story with one simple observation:

The fact that this man is alive...



...is proof that "Loose Change" is bulls**t.

Here's why:

1. The man in the picture above is Dylan Avery. To be more precise, the fact that Dylan, his friends, and family are alive, is proof that "Loose Change" is bulls**t. He, along with a couple of his friends, created a 9/11 conspiracy video claiming that the US government and the military caused 9/11. Take a closer look at the last part of that last sentence: he's claiming that the US government, for whatever ends, killed nearly 3,000 innocent Americans, and tens if not hundreds of thousands of more lives in the conflicts that ensued because of it.

2. Since Dylan's arguing that the government has no problem killing 3,000 innocent people, this raises the question: if his documentary is true, and we've established that the government has no ethical qualms about killing thousands of its own people, then why wouldn't the government kill Avery and his friends as well? What's a few more lives to them to ensure the success of this conspiracy?

Whatever reason it may be that the government supposedly orchestrated this conspiracy, it must have been worth it to them to cause so much suffering and loss of life. So if there's any truth to this, then you can bet your ass that the government wouldn't let a couple of pecker-neck chumps with a couple of Macs and too much time on their hands jeopardise their entire operation by letting this stupid video float around on the Internet. I can picture you morons emailing me now: "BUT MADOX, MAYBE DYLAN POSTED IT ON THE INTERNET BEFORE THE GOVERNMENT HAD A CHANCE TO REMOVE IT LOL." Yeah, too bad this rebuttal is inconsistent with the premise of Dylan's s**t-festival of a movie: that the WTC was brought down "in a carefully planned and controlled demolition ... and it was pulled off with military precision." Now we're expected to believe that the same government that was able to commit the largest terrorist operation in history--with military precision no less--is suddenly too incompetent to sniff out and shut down a little website set up by some college losers within days, if not minutes of its creation? The US government has the capability to monitor every electronic communication made anywhere in the world, yet we're expected to believe that they wouldn't be able to nix this kid long before his video ever became popular?

I win. There is no conspiracy. Eat my s**t, losers.

The other type of 9/11 conspiracy email you **** keep sending is the $20 dollar WTC conspiracy. Glenn Beck--a loud-mouthed, fat-faced **** on CNN--has a copy of it on his website:

Quote: The new U.S. $20 dollar bill contains hidden pictures of the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks!

Yes! see for yourself...

1st) FOLD A NEW $20 BILL THIS WAY:



2nd) CONTINUE TO FOLD THIS WAY
Compare your fold precisely to this picture.

3rd) FOLD THE RIGHT SIDE UNDER,
exactly as you folded the left side.

You'll immediately see the Pentagon ablaze! (red circle)



th) NOW FLIP IT OVER AND SEE OTHER SIDE

The Twin Towers of the World Trade Center are hit and smoking.



What are the odds that a simple geometric folding of the $20 bill would accidentally contain a representation of both terror attacks?

What are the odds that a simple geometric folding of a $20 bill with elements of design that were conceived in 1928 by a committee of treasurers, a full 42 years before the World Trade Center even existed, could accidentally contain a representation of both terror attacks? Pretty good, apparently.

The article on Beck's page goes on to ask: Need even more proof? No, you ****! You had me at "the U.S. $20 dollar bill contains hidden pictures of the World Trade Center." As if a folded picture of shrubbery on a bill that kind of looks like smoke wasn't convincing enough of a conspiracy, Beck offers this gem on his site to sway those few remaining skeptics:



This is followed by the fact that 9+11 = 20, and in big red letters:

COINCIDENCE? YOU DECIDE!

The question mark at the end of "COINCIDENCE" is clearly there to denote a rhetorical question, as clearly, this is not a coincidence. To help out Glenn Beck, I sat down with a $100 bill and tried to find any hidden messages the bill might contain. Here's one that he hasn't found yet:

Step 1:

Fold the bill so that the "ON" of "ONE" is covered:



Step 2:

Fold again like so, covering "HU" of "HUNDRED:"



Step 3:

Another fold covering part of "DOLLARS:"



Step 4:

Finally make one last fold, and with a magic marker, add the following letters to reveal a hidden message!



Coincidence? YOU DECIDE!









Further Reading:

For anyone interested in a point-by-point debunking of some of the most popular conspiracy theories out there (like the fact that steel melts at 1525° C, and although jet fuel burns only at 825° C, it doesn't have to burn hot enough to melt to cause the buildings to collapse, since steel loses 50% of its strength at 648 ° C), check out the following links:

National Institute of Standards and Technology: Fact Sheet
Popular Mechanics
Loose Change guide

[leftneckredwing]

No name calling in thread titles. Changed by myself. Feel free to change it to something without venom.

[Nathyn]

leftneckredwing wrote: No name calling in thread titles. Changed by myself. Feel free to change it to something without venom.
Just quoting the article's original name.

[leftneckredwing]

Nathyn wrote: leftneckredwing wrote: No name calling in thread titles. Changed by myself. Feel free to change it to something without venom.
Just quoting the article's original name.

Yes, you did and if one of the more expereinced mods says it's ok, then I don't have a problem with it.

[Nathyn]

leftneckredwing wrote: Nathyn wrote: leftneckredwing wrote: No name calling in thread titles. Changed by myself. Feel free to change it to something without venom.
Just quoting the article's original name.

Yes, you did and if one of the more expereinced mods says it's ok, then I don't have a problem with it.
No complaints here. Maddox is pretty inflammatory.

[MajorWoody]

I stated this on another thread but never heard any response on it so I will state it again;

One thing I never understood about those conspiracy theorists that believe the Bush administration was behind 9/11 is why wouldn't they also just have fabricated some WMD's in Iraq? If they were clever enough to fool 99% of the US population in to believing OBL was behind 9/11 then why couldn't they have "placed" some sarin gas in Baghdad? I think that would have been the best way to "fool" voters into voting Republican for many years.


Major

[Divinity11]

No offense, Nathyn. I usually agree with a lot of what you post, but I have to say that I think Maddox is the moron.

Now, I'm not saying I agree with all the "speculation" (aka: conspiracy theories), but I also don't believe what our government has told us. The truth is out there, and perhaps, one day will be discovered.

However, the premise of Maddox's "theory" is extremely weak. Allow me to illustrate:

Quote: Here's why:

1. The man in the picture above is Dylan Avery. To be more precise, the fact that Dylan, his friends, and family are alive, is proof that "Loose Change" is bulls**t. He, along with a couple of his friends, created a 9/11 conspiracy video claiming that the US government and the military caused 9/11. Take a closer look at the last part of that last sentence: he's claiming that the US government, for whatever ends, killed nearly 3,000 innocent Americans, and tens if not hundreds of thousands of more lives in the conflicts that ensued because of it.

2. Since Dylan's arguing that the government has no problem killing 3,000 innocent people, this raises the question: if his documentary is true, and we've established that the government has no ethical qualms about killing thousands of its own people, then why wouldn't the government kill Avery and his friends as well? What's a few more lives to them to ensure the success of this conspiracy?
Whatever reason it may be that the government supposedly orchestrated this conspiracy, it must have been worth it to them to cause so much suffering and loss of life. So if there's any truth to this, then you can bet your ass that the government wouldn't let a couple of pecker-neck chumps with a couple of Macs and too much time on their hands jeopardise their entire operation by letting this stupid video float around on the Internet. I can picture you morons emailing me now: "BUT MADOX, MAYBE DYLAN POSTED IT ON THE INTERNET BEFORE THE GOVERNMENT HAD A CHANCE TO REMOVE IT LOL." Yeah, too bad this rebuttal is inconsistent with the premise of Dylan's s**t-festival of a movie: that the WTC was brought down "in a carefully planned and controlled demolition ... and it was pulled off with military precision." Now we're expected to believe that the same government that was able to commit the largest terrorist operation in history--with military precision no less--is suddenly too incompetent to sniff out and shut down a little website set up by some college losers within days, if not minutes of its creation? The US government has the capability to monitor every electronic communication made anywhere in the world, yet we're expected to believe that they wouldn't be able to nix this kid long before his video ever became popular?

I win. There is no conspiracy. Eat my s**t, losers.

No Maddox, you didn't win. It's not that black and white.

What, you don't think if Dylan and or his friends/family suddenly "disappeared", no one would notice or ask questions? What, the local police would learn of their "disappearance" a few days after our government shut down thier website with a video saying our government was behind 9/11, and not find this "suspicious"?

It's a little too obvious, Maddox. Here in America, we have the freedom of speech and expression. If the video is total bullsh*t, the truth will come out.

Your whole premise lies with "the fact that this guy and his family are still alive proves the whole video is conspiracy garbage, because if it were true, our government would have them killed." That's your argument, right Maddox?

You sir, are the moron.

[Revenant]

It's just amusing. It's not like Maddox is some real analyst. It's just a joke that people take WAYYYYY to seriously. The AT forum was up in arms about it. Psholtz said he was paid off by the CIA ( :lol: ).

Really, the man is just a comedian, as seen by his numerous articles bashing just about everything.

I like his stance on Abortion.

Regressive Party: Against Abortion, For Killing Babies.

[Dookiestix]

Yep, old news. Meanwhile, back in reality:

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=5097

I would imagine this number could grow, as Bush and his rightwing operatives (including ABC/Disney, of course) continue to exploit 9/11 for political gain at a time when Republicans look to lose big at the polls. They do this on the graves of close to 3,000 who died on that day.

We've seen enough the number of times the Bush cabal have dropped the ball in capturing bin Laden up front in the hills of Torra Borra; we've seen his incompetence on practically every level for that matter. And now we are stuck in a horrible situation in Iraq, with no exit strategy to speak of and no clear mission, as our resources are dwindling in truly fighting terrorism.

And then the Bush administration has the nerve to try and put all the blame on another administration while their policies are destroying America.

Despite all the screaming from the likes of Maddox (I had no idea he was trying to be funny), there is still plenty of doubt to go around, and it's all the administration's/Bush apologists fault. If there was more forthcoming evidence to debunk all those 9/11 conspiracy theorists, than this would be a non-issue. But the images and the actions by this administration in obstructing the 9/11 Commission and running a government in such intense secrecy should make it clear that they still have plenty to hide. Meanwhile, they continue to foment fear in the electorate with the hopes of getting them to vote Republican.

[Nathyn]

Divinity11 wrote: No offense, Nathyn. I usually agree with a lot of what you post, but I have to say that I think Maddox is the moron.

Now, I'm not saying I agree with all the "speculation" (aka: conspiracy theories), but I also don't believe what our government has told us. The truth is out there, and perhaps, one day will be discovered.

However, the premise of Maddox's "theory" is extremely weak. Allow me to illustrate:

Quote: Here's why:

1. The man in the picture above is Dylan Avery. To be more precise, the fact that Dylan, his friends, and family are alive, is proof that "Loose Change" is bulls**t. He, along with a couple of his friends, created a 9/11 conspiracy video claiming that the US government and the military caused 9/11. Take a closer look at the last part of that last sentence: he's claiming that the US government, for whatever ends, killed nearly 3,000 innocent Americans, and tens if not hundreds of thousands of more lives in the conflicts that ensued because of it.

2. Since Dylan's arguing that the government has no problem killing 3,000 innocent people, this raises the question: if his documentary is true, and we've established that the government has no ethical qualms about killing thousands of its own people, then why wouldn't the government kill Avery and his friends as well? What's a few more lives to them to ensure the success of this conspiracy?
Whatever reason it may be that the government supposedly orchestrated this conspiracy, it must have been worth it to them to cause so much suffering and loss of life. So if there's any truth to this, then you can bet your ass that the government wouldn't let a couple of pecker-neck chumps with a couple of Macs and too much time on their hands jeopardise their entire operation by letting this stupid video float around on the Internet. I can picture you morons emailing me now: "BUT MADOX, MAYBE DYLAN POSTED IT ON THE INTERNET BEFORE THE GOVERNMENT HAD A CHANCE TO REMOVE IT LOL." Yeah, too bad this rebuttal is inconsistent with the premise of Dylan's s**t-festival of a movie: that the WTC was brought down "in a carefully planned and controlled demolition ... and it was pulled off with military precision." Now we're expected to believe that the same government that was able to commit the largest terrorist operation in history--with military precision no less--is suddenly too incompetent to sniff out and shut down a little website set up by some college losers within days, if not minutes of its creation? The US government has the capability to monitor every electronic communication made anywhere in the world, yet we're expected to believe that they wouldn't be able to nix this kid long before his video ever became popular?

I win. There is no conspiracy. Eat my s**t, losers.

No Maddox, you didn't win. It's not that black and white.

What, you don't think if Dylan and or his friends/family suddenly "disappeared", no one would notice or ask questions? What, the local police would learn of their "disappearance" a few days after our government shut down thier website with a video saying our government was behind 9/11, and not find this "suspicious"?

It's a little too obvious, Maddox. Here in America, we have the freedom of speech and expression. If the video is total bullsh*t, the truth will come out.

Your whole premise lies with "the fact that this guy and his family are still alive proves the whole video is conspiracy garbage, because if it were true, our government would have them killed." That's your argument, right Maddox?

You sir, are the moron.
His rebuttal to that, though, is that if the government can get away with destroying the WTC, why couldn't they make a few people disappear?

You ask, "No one would notice or ask questions?" well, my counter point is: Wouldn't anyone notice a controlled demolition of the WTC?

All of the hard scientific facts are linked to at the bottom.

The same reasoning you're using right now is the same reasoning Conservative fanatics use to argue for the Liberal media -- can't you see that? Whenever glaring corporate or conservative bias is in the media, they simply say, "Oh, they're just keeping up with appearances, so nobody will suspect anything."

Dookiestix wrote: Yep, old news. Meanwhile, back in reality:

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=5097

I would imagine this number could grow, as Bush and his rightwing operatives (including ABC/Disney, of course) continue to exploit 9/11 for political gain at a time when Republicans look to lose big at the polls. They do this on the graves of close to 3,000 who died on that day.

We've seen enough the number of times the Bush cabal have dropped the ball in capturing bin Laden up front in the hills of Torra Borra; we've seen his incompetence on practically every level for that matter. And now we are stuck in a horrible situation in Iraq, with no exit strategy to speak of and no clear mission, as our resources are dwindling in truly fighting terrorism.

And then the Bush administration has the nerve to try and put all the blame on another administration while their policies are destroying America.

Despite all the screaming from the likes of Maddox (I had no idea he was trying to be funny), there is still plenty of doubt to go around, and it's all the administration's/Bush apologists fault. If there was more forthcoming evidence to debunk all those 9/11 conspiracy theorists, than this would be a non-issue. But the images and the actions by this administration in obstructing the 9/11 Commission and running a government in such intense secrecy should make it clear that they still have plenty to hide. Meanwhile, they continue to foment fear in the electorate with the hopes of getting them to vote Republican.
You don't agree with me, partially because I'm not a Liberal, but a Libertarian Socialist and I'm anti-ideology. Having an ideology promotes collective thought, in a particularly dangerous way that's contrary to progress.

In any case, as it seems to me, "Californian Liberalism," is an ideology in its own right. It seems like every day in San Francisco and Berkeley, somebody's running around with their genitals flopping around, starting fires, and shaking well-crafted paper-machiete figures and screaming that Bush is Hitler and Satan.

I strongly disagree with Conservatives and find their assessments of Liberalism to be totally baseless. But such radical Liberals, particularly those in California, serve as perfect anecdotal examples for Michelle Malkin to blog about, and say, "Hey, look at these crazy people!"

In other words, Californian Liberals are to Liberalism what Fred Phelps is to Christianity.

There is no 9/11 conspiracy. 99.9999% of all of the scientific experts regarding engineering can explain precisely how the WTC collapsed. Those in the "9/11 Truth Movement," are a rag-tag band of left-wing extremists and though there are many educated scholars, half of them are in the humanities and the other half are scientists, but not structural engineers.

Dookiestix, you and several other Liberals here are virtually identical to the Conservative posters here who post out of activism. You can't see anything more to an issue other than what the left-wing presents and are willing to assert that virtually any claim is true, provided that it supports you, ideologically.

And it's a result of both partisanship and collective thinking as a result of ideology. Give up the Green party and the Democrats. Give up "Liberalism," and the "left wing." And get out of California. Think for yourself and this 9/11 conspiracy theory will seem like absolute nonsense.

[Revenant]

Nathyn wrote: Divinity11 wrote: No offense, Nathyn. I usually agree with a lot of what you post, but I have to say that I think Maddox is the moron.

Now, I'm not saying I agree with all the "speculation" (aka: conspiracy theories), but I also don't believe what our government has told us. The truth is out there, and perhaps, one day will be discovered.

However, the premise of Maddox's "theory" is extremely weak. Allow me to illustrate:

Quote: Here's why:

1. The man in the picture above is Dylan Avery. To be more precise, the fact that Dylan, his friends, and family are alive, is proof that "Loose Change" is bulls**t. He, along with a couple of his friends, created a 9/11 conspiracy video claiming that the US government and the military caused 9/11. Take a closer look at the last part of that last sentence: he's claiming that the US government, for whatever ends, killed nearly 3,000 innocent Americans, and tens if not hundreds of thousands of more lives in the conflicts that ensued because of it.

2. Since Dylan's arguing that the government has no problem killing 3,000 innocent people, this raises the question: if his documentary is true, and we've established that the government has no ethical qualms about killing thousands of its own people, then why wouldn't the government kill Avery and his friends as well? What's a few more lives to them to ensure the success of this conspiracy?
Whatever reason it may be that the government supposedly orchestrated this conspiracy, it must have been worth it to them to cause so much suffering and loss of life. So if there's any truth to this, then you can bet your ass that the government wouldn't let a couple of pecker-neck chumps with a couple of Macs and too much time on their hands jeopardise their entire operation by letting this stupid video float around on the Internet. I can picture you morons emailing me now: "BUT MADOX, MAYBE DYLAN POSTED IT ON THE INTERNET BEFORE THE GOVERNMENT HAD A CHANCE TO REMOVE IT LOL." Yeah, too bad this rebuttal is inconsistent with the premise of Dylan's s**t-festival of a movie: that the WTC was brought down "in a carefully planned and controlled demolition ... and it was pulled off with military precision." Now we're expected to believe that the same government that was able to commit the largest terrorist operation in history--with military precision no less--is suddenly too incompetent to sniff out and shut down a little website set up by some college losers within days, if not minutes of its creation? The US government has the capability to monitor every electronic communication made anywhere in the world, yet we're expected to believe that they wouldn't be able to nix this kid long before his video ever became popular?

I win. There is no conspiracy. Eat my s**t, losers.

No Maddox, you didn't win. It's not that black and white.

What, you don't think if Dylan and or his friends/family suddenly "disappeared", no one would notice or ask questions? What, the local police would learn of their "disappearance" a few days after our government shut down thier website with a video saying our government was behind 9/11, and not find this "suspicious"?

It's a little too obvious, Maddox. Here in America, we have the freedom of speech and expression. If the video is total bullsh*t, the truth will come out.

Your whole premise lies with "the fact that this guy and his family are still alive proves the whole video is conspiracy garbage, because if it were true, our government would have them killed." That's your argument, right Maddox?

You sir, are the moron.
His rebuttal to that, though, is that if the government can get away with destroying the WTC, why couldn't they make a few people disappear?

You ask, "No one would notice or ask questions?" well, my counter point is: Wouldn't anyone notice a controlled demolition of the WTC?

All of the hard scientific facts are linked to at the bottom.

The same reasoning you're using right now is the same reasoning Conservative fanatics use to argue for the Liberal media -- can't you see that? Whenever glaring corporate or conservative bias is in the media, they simply say, "Oh, they're just keeping up with appearances, so nobody will suspect anything."

Dookiestix wrote: Yep, old news. Meanwhile, back in reality:

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=5097

I would imagine this number could grow, as Bush and his rightwing operatives (including ABC/Disney, of course) continue to exploit 9/11 for political gain at a time when Republicans look to lose big at the polls. They do this on the graves of close to 3,000 who died on that day.

We've seen enough the number of times the Bush cabal have dropped the ball in capturing bin Laden up front in the hills of Torra Borra; we've seen his incompetence on practically every level for that matter. And now we are stuck in a horrible situation in Iraq, with no exit strategy to speak of and no clear mission, as our resources are dwindling in truly fighting terrorism.

And then the Bush administration has the nerve to try and put all the blame on another administration while their policies are destroying America.

Despite all the screaming from the likes of Maddox (I had no idea he was trying to be funny), there is still plenty of doubt to go around, and it's all the administration's/Bush apologists fault. If there was more forthcoming evidence to debunk all those 9/11 conspiracy theorists, than this would be a non-issue. But the images and the actions by this administration in obstructing the 9/11 Commission and running a government in such intense secrecy should make it clear that they still have plenty to hide. Meanwhile, they continue to foment fear in the electorate with the hopes of getting them to vote Republican.
You don't agree with me, partially because I'm not a Liberal, but a Libertarian Socialist and I'm anti-ideology. Having an ideology promotes collective thought, in a particularly dangerous way that's contrary to progress.

In any case, as it seems to me, "Californian Liberalism," is an ideology in its own right. It seems like every day in San Francisco and Berkeley, somebody's running around with their genitals flopping around, starting fires, and shaking well-crafted paper-machiete figures and screaming that Bush is Hitler and Satan.

I strongly disagree with Conservatives and find their assessments of Liberalism to be totally baseless. But such radical Liberals, particularly those in California, serve as perfect anecdotal examples for Michelle Malkin to blog about, and say, "Hey, look at these crazy people!"

In other words, Californian Liberals are to Liberalism what Fred Phelps is to Christianity.

There is no 9/11 conspiracy. 99.9999% of all of the scientific experts regarding engineering can explain precisely how the WTC collapsed. Those in the "9/11 Truth Movement," are a rag-tag band of left-wing extremists and though there are many educated scholars, half of them are in the humanities and the other half are scientists, but not structural engineers.

Dookiestix, you and several other Liberals here are virtually identical to the Conservative posters here who post out of activism. You can't see anything more to an issue other than what the left-wing presents and are willing to assert that virtually any claim is true, provided that it supports you, ideologically.

And it's a result of both partisanship and collective thinking as a result of ideology. Give up the Green party and the Democrats. Give up "Liberalism," and the "left wing." And get out of California. Think for yourself and this 9/11 conspiracy theory will seem like absolute nonsense.

Well put.

[plumeria]

Props for posting the Maddox page here! Truly a classic.

I've never met 9/11 deniers in real life, the only ones I've ever actually encountered are on the Internet, but I'm honestly embarrassed for them. They have no idea how ludicrous they are. They have no idea that they're in the same league with people who think the moon landings were faked or the holocaust never happened.

It's hard for me to imagine anyone taking the Loose Change video seriously, but for those who do, you owe it to yourself to watch the rebuttal video:

http://www.lolloosechange.co.nr/

[Reverend_HellH0und]

MajorWoody wrote: I stated this on another thread but never heard any response on it so I will state it again;

One thing I never understood about those conspiracy theorists that believe the Bush administration was behind 9/11 is why wouldn't they also just have fabricated some WMD's in Iraq? If they were clever enough to fool 99% of the US population in to believing OBL was behind 9/11 then why couldn't they have "placed" some sarin gas in Baghdad? I think that would have been the best way to "fool" voters into voting Republican for many years.


Major

[Dookiestix]

Nathyn:

Part of thinking for yourself is realizing that none of this is as black and white as you believe it to be. How lovely you would go right ahead and NOT think for yourself by labeling me with your "San Francisco," "Berkely," "California" knee jerk debating points.

First off, I don't agree with you because I just don't agree with you. It's no because you're conservative. I've agreed with plenty other conservatives on this forum. Unfortunately, the partisan level is rather high right now, and soon to get much hotter as mid-terms approach.

"California Liberalism?" I have no idea WTF you would mean by that other than another attempt at labeling somebody in your black and white world. By California Liberalism, perhaps you mean the 8th largest economy in the world, or maybe the number of Nobel Laureates, or perhaps our role in trend setting for the rest of the nation (global warming now comes to mind). We have plenty of conservatives as well. It is the sum of all our parts that defines our state, not that "California Liberalism" you insist on throwing around as a label.

I had no idea that every day someone runs around the City with their genitals flopping around. Last I looked, everybody is clothed down here in the Financial District amongst the suits who I work with side by side each and every business day.

If you disagree with Conservatives and find their assessments of Liberalism to be totally baseless, then why would you in turn agree with them by throwing around such worthless labels?

It seems as though your "disagreement" with Conservatives about Liberalism is horribly misplaced. In essence, the thing you complain about you just embraced in your last post, especially with the "genital flopping" quip.

Now, before you continue to falsely label me (which you really aren't very good at), I will make myself clear yet again: I believe our government was complicit in regards to the attacks on 9/11. I base that judgement on their ACTIONS, as I follow politics religiously, and have been for YEARS. I have always been under the belief that actions speak much louder than words. And the Bush administration's unbelievable secrecy, as well as their attempts early on to block investigation of 9/11, and coupled with their immediate desire to attack Iraq when it was bin Laden and al Qaeda who killed many Americans on 9/11, are just a few examples of why I have serious doubts regarding the official explanation of 9/11.

I repeat again; if there are those who do not want these conspiracy theories floating out there, than I would suggest demanding more accountability and transparency in regards to your own government. If not, then we are all lost, and the conspiracy theories will only continue. Besides, one way in promoting conspiracy theories is the hope of marginalizing a group of individuals for the sole purpose of distraction and obvuscation from what the truth REALLY is. And NONE of us really know what the truth is at this point in time. And it's been 5 years since 9/11. It seems as though such a tactic has been highly effective, don't ya think? :wink:

I've seen all the "hard" scientific facts, and I could just as well fire off even more "hard" scientific facts that debunk all of YOUR "hard" scientific facts. There are plenty of other experts who have called the official scientific explanation into question. Notice the operative word "official." A term that was also used in describing ABC's mockumentary before they got caught with their pants down.

See what I mean?

I find it utterly hysterical that I should get out of California, not be a Green Party member (of which I won't be soon, as I plan on going Independent), giving up Liberalism. I DO think for myself, and my logic clearly tells me that not all is right with the official explanation of 9/11.

This administration obviously has much to hide, and America is currently being held hostage by their disgusting policies. I hope that Congress changes hands, and we re-open a REAL investigation on 9/11, where we spend more than just a few millions dollars vs. the $70 million spent on investigating Clinton's penis. Republicans have shown throughout the years what their priorities have been, and they are truly screwed up.

[Reverend_HellH0und]

"Giving up liberalism?"


:lol:

[Revenant]

Remind me of this again....

WHY ARE PEOPLE TAKING THIS JOKE SO SERIOUSLY?!?!?!?!

[Reverend_HellH0und]

I see a nail and a head! :lol:

[Timmytour]

People seem so paranoid these days about those claiming there was a conspiracy on 9/11.

I've even seen someone practically begging for a thread to be moved to another forum.

What is it? What's happened lately that posters no longer feel they can just ignore such threads but feel they must act to either remove them from the most popular forum or question the sanity of the posters in question?

I'll confess to not really believing anything happened other than the way its been officially told, though I do keep an open mind. I'm not so much into composing my own theories but I do wonder, and have yet to be given convincing explanations for..

1/ How come not only was one of the hijackers passports found a couple of blocks away from the towers after they'd been hit but before they fell down, but with all that was going on what on earth was the person who found it doing looking through all the rubbish accumulating on the streets and also, how on earth did he deduce it was something relevant to what was going on? How many other law enforcement officers were handed bits of paper that passers by had found and thought might be a clue while the towers were blazing away in full sight of the world! and why have neither the passer by nor the law enforcement officer involved ever been identified?

2/ Just incredible! To hit the Pentagon with that degree of accuracy coming in so low and being so close to, but hardly marking the lawn.
An "accomplishment" that would severely test any highly experienced pilot let alone an amateur with barely a few lessons under his belt. Extremely unlikely but possible...but to happen on a day of so amny other extraordinary coincidences? And why did the Pentagon, of all places, not have highly sophisticated security cameras covering it from all angles instead of one obviously obtained in a Walmart "seconds" sale with the wrong day and wrong time programmed in and p*sspoor definition? And how come no news crews were on the scene at the time filming? One would have thought that the news agencies would have stuff on standby near the Pentagon and would have gone ruhing into action upon hearing the earler news....

3/ Why hasn't the video been released that was taken by the five Israelis who were reported for dancing and celebrating within sight of the towers as they burned? I've seen videos made by "terrorist cells" within the US who turned out to be nothing more than guys who'd made a video of their trip to Disneyland. So why hasn't the "Urban Moving Five" video been released?

4/ Why did Rumsfeld make that "slip of the tongue" about Flight 93 being shot down? It's hard to understand how an incident so ingrained on the mind can make such a slip....unless of course there's more than one picture in his mind for some reason of how it happened.

Like I say, not conspiracy theories, just questions about what actually was supposed to have happened...

[Reverend_HellH0und]

Internet rumors and speculation timmy.



Wrong forum.

[Timmytour]

Reverend_HellH0und wrote: Internet rumors and speculation timmy.



Wrong forum.

Can you be more precise? What have I posted that is "internet rumor" or speculation?