Political Crossfire Forums

[BigOMG]

psholtz wrote: BigOMG wrote: No.
It would be a huge waste of money and only give these tinfoil warriors of the Internet more airtime and "credibility" *snorts* which would only make the loved one of the people killed on that day suffer again.

Do we really need more grandstanding from politicians?
You spend $100 million investigating Clinton's sex life, and you only spend $14 million investigating 9/11, and you think you've discovered all there is to know?

In fact, the original budget for 9/11 Commission was only a paltry $3 million, but that was raised after massive public pressure.

Irregardless, a waste of money. It won't find anything new except more whack jobs who are lost in their tinfoil houses and hats.

The money would be better spent resolving some of the errors found in that original report, not looking into it, again.

[Patriot911]

psholtz wrote: Free Thinkr wrote: Constitutional Republic wrote: Since the government and Official Theorists have evidence on their side, they should be welcoming a new, independent investigation with open arms. It's the only way to shut us up, and they would be very happy for this to happen. It's a no-loose situation.

And yet they aren't doing this. What are they trying to hide? It wouldn't be the truth now would it?!
Tell you what: investigate yourself, on your own dime. I have no problem whatever with that. I don't understand, however, why I should have to pay for another investigation, just to have it labelled as "half-assed" by disingenuous malcontents. Seriously, there's ample evidence for anyone not determined to see a conspiracy.
Like I said, the government spent over $100 million investigating Clinton's sex life..

You don't think the victims of 9/11 are worth at least that much?

Because so far the government has only spent $14 million investigating 9/11..

Money is free in Washington.. I don't think it's a money issue.

Why do you care how much was spent? You've already confirmed no report will change your mind no matter what evidence is presented. Why should we, as a country, spend money trying to convince people like you who already admit they have no intention of considering the information.

[psholtz]

Patriot911 wrote: psholtz wrote: Free Thinkr wrote: Constitutional Republic wrote: Since the government and Official Theorists have evidence on their side, they should be welcoming a new, independent investigation with open arms. It's the only way to shut us up, and they would be very happy for this to happen. It's a no-loose situation.

And yet they aren't doing this. What are they trying to hide? It wouldn't be the truth now would it?!
Tell you what: investigate yourself, on your own dime. I have no problem whatever with that. I don't understand, however, why I should have to pay for another investigation, just to have it labelled as "half-assed" by disingenuous malcontents. Seriously, there's ample evidence for anyone not determined to see a conspiracy.
Like I said, the government spent over $100 million investigating Clinton's sex life..

You don't think the victims of 9/11 are worth at least that much?

Because so far the government has only spent $14 million investigating 9/11..

Money is free in Washington.. I don't think it's a money issue.

Why do you care how much was spent? You've already confirmed no report will change your mind no matter what evidence is presented. Why should we, as a country, spend money trying to convince people like you who already admit they have no intention of considering the information.
I care b/c government waste is a collossal problem.

When the government wastes $100 million in tax dollars investigating someone's sex life, that's $100 million in tax money that should've been refunded back to the people so they could use it how they (rather than the government) saw fit. The $3 million earmarked for 9/11 investigation versus $100 million earmark for Clinton's sex life also gives you an interesting yardstick to measure what your government's genuine priorities are.

If nothing else, you're dealing w/ reckless, irresponsible perverts.. wouldn't you agree?

[Patriot911]

OK, so you agree that we SOULDN'T waste more money on another investigation. Glad we can finally agree.

As for the Clinton / Whitewater investigation, it went far past Clinton's sex life, so characterizing it that way is highly misleading. Should we have spent 100 million on it? Not in my opinion.

[NAB]

psholtz wrote: Patriot911 wrote: psholtz wrote: Free Thinkr wrote: Constitutional Republic wrote: Since the government and Official Theorists have evidence on their side, they should be welcoming a new, independent investigation with open arms. It's the only way to shut us up, and they would be very happy for this to happen. It's a no-loose situation.

And yet they aren't doing this. What are they trying to hide? It wouldn't be the truth now would it?!
Tell you what: investigate yourself, on your own dime. I have no problem whatever with that. I don't understand, however, why I should have to pay for another investigation, just to have it labelled as "half-assed" by disingenuous malcontents. Seriously, there's ample evidence for anyone not determined to see a conspiracy.
Like I said, the government spent over $100 million investigating Clinton's sex life..

You don't think the victims of 9/11 are worth at least that much?

Because so far the government has only spent $14 million investigating 9/11..

Money is free in Washington.. I don't think it's a money issue.

Why do you care how much was spent? You've already confirmed no report will change your mind no matter what evidence is presented. Why should we, as a country, spend money trying to convince people like you who already admit they have no intention of considering the information.
I care b/c government waste is a collossal problem.

When the government wastes $100 million in tax dollars investigating someone's sex life, that's $100 million in tax money that should've been refunded back to the people so they could use it how they (rather than the government) saw fit. The $3 million earmarked for 9/11 investigation versus $100 million earmark for Clinton's sex life also gives you an interesting yardstick to measure what your government's genuine priorities are.

If nothing else, you're dealing w/ reckless, irresponsible perverts.. wouldn't you agree?

While I agree that government waste is out of control, I'm just curious why you care so much. Weren't you the one who claimed to not pay taxes? Seems like you don't have a dog in the fight. :wink:

[Patriot911]

NAB wrote: psholtz wrote: Patriot911 wrote: psholtz wrote: Free Thinkr wrote: Constitutional Republic wrote: Since the government and Official Theorists have evidence on their side, they should be welcoming a new, independent investigation with open arms. It's the only way to shut us up, and they would be very happy for this to happen. It's a no-loose situation.

And yet they aren't doing this. What are they trying to hide? It wouldn't be the truth now would it?!
Tell you what: investigate yourself, on your own dime. I have no problem whatever with that. I don't understand, however, why I should have to pay for another investigation, just to have it labelled as "half-assed" by disingenuous malcontents. Seriously, there's ample evidence for anyone not determined to see a conspiracy.
Like I said, the government spent over $100 million investigating Clinton's sex life..

You don't think the victims of 9/11 are worth at least that much?

Because so far the government has only spent $14 million investigating 9/11..

Money is free in Washington.. I don't think it's a money issue.

Why do you care how much was spent? You've already confirmed no report will change your mind no matter what evidence is presented. Why should we, as a country, spend money trying to convince people like you who already admit they have no intention of considering the information.
I care b/c government waste is a collossal problem.

When the government wastes $100 million in tax dollars investigating someone's sex life, that's $100 million in tax money that should've been refunded back to the people so they could use it how they (rather than the government) saw fit. The $3 million earmarked for 9/11 investigation versus $100 million earmark for Clinton's sex life also gives you an interesting yardstick to measure what your government's genuine priorities are.

If nothing else, you're dealing w/ reckless, irresponsible perverts.. wouldn't you agree?

While I agree that government waste is out of control, I'm just curious why you care so much. Weren't you the one who claimed to not pay taxes? Seems like you don't have a dog in the fight. :wink:

:rofl: Oh MAN I wish I had thought of that one!

[psholtz]

Patriot911 wrote: OK, so you agree that we SOULDN'T waste more money on another investigation. Glad we can finally agree.
We can (and should .. and must) have these criminals arrested and have them stand trial in a court of common law.

Shouldn't cost much money, and taxpayers shouldn't necessary have to pay for much. Heck, I'd be happy to bankroll it.. I'm sure I could get the trial(s) done for far less than $1 million (in a common law court).

Quote: As for the Clinton / Whitewater investigation, it went far past Clinton's sex life, so characterizing it that way is highly misleading. Should we have spent 100 million on it? Not in my opinion.
You're right.. it probably involved Israeli moles operating in the U.S. government..

I heard Lewinsky worked for Mossad..

But now we're getting off topic.. :lol:

[Patriot911]

psholtz wrote: Patriot911 wrote: OK, so you agree that we SOULDN'T waste more money on another investigation. Glad we can finally agree.
We can (and should .. and must) have these criminals arrested and have them stand trial in a court of common law.

Shouldn't cost much money, and taxpayers shouldn't necessary have to pay for much. Heck, I'd be happy to bankroll it.. I'm sure I could get the trial(s) done for far less than $1 million (in a common law court).

On what grounds? You don't have any evidence of wrongdoing. You have to have at least SOME proof that they've broken the law before arresting them.

psholtz wrote: Quote: As for the Clinton / Whitewater investigation, it went far past Clinton's sex life, so characterizing it that way is highly misleading. Should we have spent 100 million on it? Not in my opinion.
You're right.. it probably involved Israeli moles operating in the U.S. government..

I heard Lewinsky worked for Mossad..

But now we're getting off topic.. :lol:

:roll:

[psholtz]

Patriot911 wrote: psholtz wrote: Patriot911 wrote: OK, so you agree that we SOULDN'T waste more money on another investigation. Glad we can finally agree.
We can (and should .. and must) have these criminals arrested and have them stand trial in a court of common law.

Shouldn't cost much money, and taxpayers shouldn't necessary have to pay for much. Heck, I'd be happy to bankroll it.. I'm sure I could get the trial(s) done for far less than $1 million (in a common law court).

On what grounds? You don't have any evidence of wrongdoing. You have to have at least SOME proof that they've broken the law before arresting them.
We have more than enough evidence to issue warrants and indictments.. and frankly, to convict.

[Patriot911]

psholtz wrote: Patriot911 wrote: psholtz wrote: Patriot911 wrote: OK, so you agree that we SOULDN'T waste more money on another investigation. Glad we can finally agree.
We can (and should .. and must) have these criminals arrested and have them stand trial in a court of common law.

Shouldn't cost much money, and taxpayers shouldn't necessary have to pay for much. Heck, I'd be happy to bankroll it.. I'm sure I could get the trial(s) done for far less than $1 million (in a common law court).

On what grounds? You don't have any evidence of wrongdoing. You have to have at least SOME proof that they've broken the law before arresting them.
We have more than enough evidence to issue warrants and indictments.. and frankly, to convict.

Where? What evidence? I've asked repeatedly for this and you've yet to produce a single piece of evidence that holds up to even casual scrutiny, much less would hold up in a court of law, much LESS be enough for someone to get arrested.

Just making claims won't cut it. You're word isn't good enough to get someone arrested just because you THINK they should be..... ;-)

[citizen_X]

NAB wrote: psholtz wrote: Patriot911 wrote: psholtz wrote: Free Thinkr wrote: Constitutional Republic wrote: Since the government and Official Theorists have evidence on their side, they should be welcoming a new, independent investigation with open arms. It's the only way to shut us up, and they would be very happy for this to happen. It's a no-loose situation.

And yet they aren't doing this. What are they trying to hide? It wouldn't be the truth now would it?!
Tell you what: investigate yourself, on your own dime. I have no problem whatever with that. I don't understand, however, why I should have to pay for another investigation, just to have it labelled as "half-assed" by disingenuous malcontents. Seriously, there's ample evidence for anyone not determined to see a conspiracy.
Like I said, the government spent over $100 million investigating Clinton's sex life..

You don't think the victims of 9/11 are worth at least that much?

Because so far the government has only spent $14 million investigating 9/11..

Money is free in Washington.. I don't think it's a money issue.

Why do you care how much was spent? You've already confirmed no report will change your mind no matter what evidence is presented. Why should we, as a country, spend money trying to convince people like you who already admit they have no intention of considering the information.
I care b/c government waste is a collossal problem.

When the government wastes $100 million in tax dollars investigating someone's sex life, that's $100 million in tax money that should've been refunded back to the people so they could use it how they (rather than the government) saw fit. The $3 million earmarked for 9/11 investigation versus $100 million earmark for Clinton's sex life also gives you an interesting yardstick to measure what your government's genuine priorities are.

If nothing else, you're dealing w/ reckless, irresponsible perverts.. wouldn't you agree?

While I agree that government waste is out of control, I'm just curious why you care so much. Weren't you the one who claimed to not pay taxes? Seems like you don't have a dog in the fight. :wink:

Because someone doesnt pay income tax doesnt mean he doesnt pay tax at all, you pay taxes for many services from the internet connection to the soda pop your drinking right now, all of it was taxed.

Many people think that homeless people dont pay taxes, well they do, well the ones that drink because there is a alcohol tax, or smokes tax, dunno about the crackheads though

[Medius]

I think some people are missing the fundamental point of many people seeking a new investigation. We want an investigation not because we want to convince conspiracy theorists of anything. We want an investigation because the government must be forced to accountability. If we don't require investigations into situations where the government has failed to act appropriately, how in the world can we expect corruption and waste to end?

Investigations cost money, yes. The purpose is to save money in the end by figuring out why a simply enormous amount of money is being spent to build defenses that do not work when put to the test. Investigations show politicians that they can't simply shovel pork around since they will be held accountable when a system fails. Are you even curious at all why every time a department fails, it is just because it is underfunded? Do you think nearly a billion dollars a year is really insufficient funding for FEMA, an organization with no more than three thousand employees?

When something fails, we throw money at it. Next time? It will fail again as that money will be wasted. More money will be thrown at it. How long do you think we as a country can survive when we just toss money around that doesn't even exist? How large can our national debt become before repayment is demanded or funds cut off?

This isn't about a vendetta against the government or to convince those people who only want to see conspiracies. This is about finding out how our system failed by launching a thorough and independant investigation into all aspects of the events of 9/11, not just a report card for our intelligence angencies.

[psholtz]

Medius wrote: Do you think nearly a billion dollars a year is really insufficient funding for FEMA, an organization with no more than three thousand employees?
I think there's a lot of ... what do they call it? "skimming"? .. going on over there at FEMA..

[Medius]

psholtz wrote: Medius wrote: Do you think nearly a billion dollars a year is really insufficient funding for FEMA, an organization with no more than three thousand employees?
I think there's a lot of ... what do they call it? "skimming"? .. going on over there at FEMA..

Possibly, but I am more inclined to believe that they invest a majority of their funding on the less politically correct function they were designed, primarily, to fulfill. They are ill equipped to handle natural disasters simply because it was never intended to be their primary role. It is a role that they were branded with after the organization became public knowledge.

Their other role isn't necessarily sinister in nature, but certainly not something many people would like to spend tax dollars on, which is to ensure that the federal government not only survives any number of apocolyptic events but also retains control in the aftermath. While this seems like a good thing, the measures to which they will resort may in fact be very detrimental to the people themselves. Their primary concern for saving life as well would most likely be centered upon protecting a few key individuals from harm.

If you think this is hokey, just take a look at the executive orders that surround FEMA.

Quote: Executive Order Number 12148 created the Federal Emergency Management Agency that is to interface with the Department of Defense for civil defense planning and funding. An "emergency czar" was appointed. FEMA has only spent about 6 percent of its budget on national emergencies. The bulk of their funding has been used for the construction of secret underground facilities to assure continuity of government in case of a major emergency, foreign or domestic.

Executive Order Number 12656 appointed the National Security Council as the principal body that should consider emergency powers. This allows the government to increase domestic intelligence and surveillance of U.S. citizens and would restrict the freedom of movement within the United States and grant the government the right to isolate large groups of civilians. The National Guard could be federalized to seal all borders and take control of U.S. air space and all ports of entry. Here are just a few Executive Orders associated with FEMA that would suspend the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. These Executive Orders have been on record for nearly 30 years and could be enacted by the stroke of a Presidential pen:

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990 allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10995 allows the government to seize and control the communication media.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10997 allows the government to take over all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels and minerals.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998 allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000 allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11001 allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11002 designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11003 allows the government to take over all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11004 allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11005 allows the government to take over railroads, inland waterways and public storage facilities.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11051 specifies the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Planning and gives authorization to put all Executive Orders into effect in times of increased international tensions and economic or financial crisis.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11310 grants authority to the Department of Justice to enforce the plans set out in Executive Orders, to institute industrial support, to establish judicial and legislative liaison, to control all aliens, to operate penal and correctional institutions, and to advise and assist the President.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11049 assigns emergency preparedness function to federal departments and agencies, consolidating 21 operative Executive Orders issued over a fifteen year period.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11921 allows the Federal Emergency Preparedness Agency to develop plans to establish control over the mechanisms of production and distribution, of energy sources, wages, salaries, credit and the flow of money in U.S. financial institution in any undefined national emergency. It also provides that when a state of emergency is declared by the President, Congress cannot review the action for six months. The Federal Emergency Management Agency has broad powers in every aspect of the nation.

To clarify, this is not to insinuate that the government is planning such an event, but rather to display the failings in the system that could easily allow a future malicious leader to build a whole new government that is certainly not by or for the people. A well-timed executive vacation and a series of nuclear events would certainly create an environment in which such orders could be enacted and the American people have already shown that while they may want to investigate such an event, they will instead take a nicely wrapped pile of crap in its stead.

[AllAmericanPatriot]

There absolutely needs to be an independent re-investigation. I mean there was about to be indictments on pentagon officials for blatantly withholding information. The NIST reports cant explain why building 7 fell, and the towers collapse just doesn't make much sense. For example jet fuel courses throughout the towers and collapses the whole thing ? Especially how differently the towers were hit. That just doesn't make any sense. I vote for a re-investigation.