Political Crossfire Forums

Revenant · Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 17848 Location: Bliss

psholtz wrote: Revenant wrote: psholtz wrote: Patriot911 wrote: psholtz wrote: Yes, but don't let Congress - or even anyone in Washington - run the investigation..

The investigation needs to be truly independent.

In large part the investigation is being conducted as we speak, by millions of concerned Americans around the nation.

Just don't appoint Kissinger to run the things again... :lol:

Q: Mr. Kissinger, do you feel you're in a position to run this investigation in an objective, impartial way?
A: Of course!
Q: 19 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia.. Do you have any clients on your roster, Mr. Kissinger, who are Saudi billionaires and who are known to finance Islamic terrorism against U.S. interests and are wanted by U.S. authorities for this reason?
A: *Kissinger flops back and forth mindlessly*
Q: Mr. Kissinger, do you have any clients who go by the name of "bin Laden"?
A: *Kissinger flops off chair and falls on ground, white w/ terror*

Well... guess we can't use him as an "independent" investigator..

What a joke.. :roll:

Yeah, like you would believe ANY report that didn't confirm your conspiracy. We know you better than that Psholtz.
Here's some info on Kissinger's role in the 9/11 Coverup you might be interested in:

http://www.mnftiu.cc/mnftiu.cc/images/war.101.gif
http://www.mnftiu.cc/mnftiu.cc/images/war.102.gif
http://www.mnftiu.cc/mnftiu.cc/images/war.103.gif
http://www.mnftiu.cc/mnftiu.cc/images/war.104.gif

I've been told I can't post these inline on this forum, since they contain profanities, but I can post links to them (at least, that's what a mod said a long time ago)

Hypothetically, if the independent investigation confirmed the official story, would you accept the results?
I've done my own independent investigation and discovered that the 9/11 Commission Report is a total and complete lie.

So I'm not certain what it is that you're trying to ask..

It seems like you're trying to ask that if - hypothetically - an independent committee decreed that the world was flat, would I believe it? Again, the answer would be no, of course not.

And if your investigation was wrong, and it turned out a new report stated terrorists did 9/11, and it was bulletproof, would you believe it?

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

Revenant wrote: And if your investigation was wrong, and it turned out a new report stated terrorists did 9/11, and it was bulletproof, would you believe it?
Terrorists did carry out 9/11..

I have no argument w/ that assertion.

Free Thinkr

Revenant wrote: I vote yes, quite simply, because the 9/11 Commission Report was half-assed.

People, yes even me, are skeptical about it, and would like to see everything on the table. Launching an investigation into it couldn't be a bad thing, right?
Then what? We spend millions of dollars and countless man-hours on another investigation, only to have it labelled as "half-assed." There's no pleasing some people.

Constitutional Republic · Joined: 10 May 2006 Posts: 83

Since the government and Official Theorists supposedly have evidence on their side, they should be welcoming a new, independent investigation with open arms. It's the only way to shut us up, and they would be very happy for this to happen. We supposedly have no evidence to counter theirs. It's a no-loose situation, right?

And yet they aren't doing this. What are they trying to hide? It wouldn't be the truth now would it?!

Free Thinkr · Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:51 pm Post subject:

Constitutional Republic wrote: Since the government and Official Theorists have evidence on their side, they should be welcoming a new, independent investigation with open arms. It's the only way to shut us up, and they would be very happy for this to happen. It's a no-loose situation.

And yet they aren't doing this. What are they trying to hide? It wouldn't be the truth now would it?!
Tell you what: investigate yourself, on your own dime. I have no problem whatever with that. I don't understand, however, why I should have to pay for another investigation, just to have it labelled as "half-assed" by disingenuous malcontents. Seriously, there's ample evidence for anyone not determined to see a conspiracy.

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

Free Thinkr wrote: Constitutional Republic wrote: Since the government and Official Theorists have evidence on their side, they should be welcoming a new, independent investigation with open arms. It's the only way to shut us up, and they would be very happy for this to happen. It's a no-loose situation.

And yet they aren't doing this. What are they trying to hide? It wouldn't be the truth now would it?!
Tell you what: investigate yourself, on your own dime. I have no problem whatever with that. I don't understand, however, why I should have to pay for another investigation, just to have it labelled as "half-assed" by disingenuous malcontents. Seriously, there's ample evidence for anyone not determined to see a conspiracy.
Like I said, the government spent over $100 million investigating Clinton's sex life..

You don't think the victims of 9/11 are worth at least that much?

Because so far the government has only spent $14 million investigating 9/11..

Money is free in Washington.. I don't think it's a money issue.

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Revenant wrote: I'm curious why people believe we shouldn't launch another investigation.

Why bother?

Free Thinkr · Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:14 am Post subject:

psholtz wrote: Free Thinkr wrote: Constitutional Republic wrote: Since the government and Official Theorists have evidence on their side, they should be welcoming a new, independent investigation with open arms. It's the only way to shut us up, and they would be very happy for this to happen. It's a no-loose situation.

And yet they aren't doing this. What are they trying to hide? It wouldn't be the truth now would it?!
Tell you what: investigate yourself, on your own dime. I have no problem whatever with that. I don't understand, however, why I should have to pay for another investigation, just to have it labelled as "half-assed" by disingenuous malcontents. Seriously, there's ample evidence for anyone not determined to see a conspiracy.
Like I said, the government spent over $100 million investigating Clinton's sex life..
So what? Because our government has wasted money in the past, it's suddenly wise to waste it in the future?

Quote: You don't think the victims of 9/11 are worth at least that much?
Sure I do, but I don't think that money would in any way help the victims of 9/11 or their families. They'd do another investigation, come up with the same basic conclusions, and have the same basic reaction. We'd be right back at square 1, and $100Million poorer.

Quote: Because so far the government has only spent $14 million investigating 9/11..
Source?

Quote: Money is free in Washington.. I don't think it's a money issue.
Money is not free in Washington. The problem is that so many are like you and contend it is. The resut? Reckless spending.

Revenant · Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 17848 Location: Bliss

psholtz wrote: Revenant wrote: And if your investigation was wrong, and it turned out a new report stated terrorists did 9/11, and it was bulletproof, would you believe it?
Terrorists did carry out 9/11..

I have no argument w/ that assertion.

I mean Middle-Eastern terrorists :wink:

But seriously, hypothetically, would you believe it?

letfreedomring · Joined: 29 Jul 2006 Posts: 857

Revenant wrote: psholtz wrote: Revenant wrote: And if your investigation was wrong, and it turned out a new report stated terrorists did 9/11, and it was bulletproof, would you believe it?
Terrorists did carry out 9/11..

I have no argument w/ that assertion.

I mean Middle-Eastern terrorists :wink:

But seriously, hypothetically, would you believe it?

You are not going to get a straight answer from him. :roll:

I don't want another investigation just for the sake of one. It has been 5 years. What possible physical evidence you can come up with now that would change the previous conclusions?

1. There are no steel samples left as far as I know to do any conclusive finding since they have long been sent off as scrap.
2. There were no evidence found to point to explosives as being the source that brought the building down.
3. There are not enough (if any) traces of thermate found to conclude that it was thermate that brought the building down.
4. There are no evidence pointing that GWB or this administration deliberately cause the collapse of the building.
5. There are no evidence pointing to the fact that the Pentagon was hit by a cruise missile. On contrary, there were eyewitnesses on the scene that saw airplane wreckage and body parts.
6. We had four planes that are gone with dead people on them, yet people would have us believed that these planes were "remotely" controlled. Try telling that to their family members.

At best, what we could find out, is how ineptly the situation was handled, and some people may get fired. Would that deter this from happening again? who knows....

Patriot911 · Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Posts: 6937 Location: Denver, CO

Constitutional Republic wrote: Since the government and Official Theorists supposedly have evidence on their side, they should be welcoming a new, independent investigation with open arms. It's the only way to shut us up, and they would be very happy for this to happen. We supposedly have no evidence to counter theirs. It's a no-loose situation, right?

And yet they aren't doing this. What are they trying to hide? It wouldn't be the truth now would it?!

The truth has never stopped conspiracy theorists from coming up with these theories has it? Another investigation won't shut them up. The only thing that will is a very large cork and a healthy amount of duct tape. :lol:

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

Revenant wrote: psholtz wrote: Revenant wrote: And if your investigation was wrong, and it turned out a new report stated terrorists did 9/11, and it was bulletproof, would you believe it?
Terrorists did carry out 9/11..

I have no argument w/ that assertion.

I mean Middle-Eastern terrorists :wink:

But seriously, hypothetically, would you believe it?
These are the questions of a slave.

I think for myself.

I don't own a TV and even if I did, I would not permit the TV (or anyone or anything else, for that matter) to "tell" and "program" me what to think. It sounds like this is what you desire.. You desire for someone to "tell" you what to believe and what to think.

You and I are obviously cut from (very) different stock.

Revenant · Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 17848 Location: Bliss

psholtz wrote: Revenant wrote: psholtz wrote: Revenant wrote: And if your investigation was wrong, and it turned out a new report stated terrorists did 9/11, and it was bulletproof, would you believe it?
Terrorists did carry out 9/11..

I have no argument w/ that assertion.

I mean Middle-Eastern terrorists :wink:

But seriously, hypothetically, would you believe it?
These are the questions of a slave.

I think for myself.

I don't own a TV and even if I did, I would not permit the TV (or anyone or anything else, for that matter) to "tell" and "program" me what to think. It sounds like this is what you desire.. You desire for someone to "tell" you what to believe and what to think.

You and I are obviously cut from (very) different stock.

No, I don't want people to tell me what to think. I come to my own conclusions. However your responses have taught me everything I need to know about you.

Patriot911 · Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Posts: 6937 Location: Denver, CO

psholtz wrote: Revenant wrote: psholtz wrote: Revenant wrote: And if your investigation was wrong, and it turned out a new report stated terrorists did 9/11, and it was bulletproof, would you believe it?
Terrorists did carry out 9/11..

I have no argument w/ that assertion.

I mean Middle-Eastern terrorists :wink:

But seriously, hypothetically, would you believe it?
These are the questions of a slave.

I think for myself.

I don't own a TV and even if I did, I would not permit the TV (or anyone or anything else, for that matter) to "tell" and "program" me what to think. It sounds like this is what you desire.. You desire for someone to "tell" you what to believe and what to think.

You and I are obviously cut from (very) different stock.

Then why do you believe every lie coming from the conspiracy sites? I don't doubt at all you don't own a TV. You're extremely out of touch with reality.

And thank you for admitting you wouldn't be affected by any investigation as you wouldn't want it to "tell and program" you. :lol:

NAB · Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:53 am Post subject:

Revenant wrote: psholtz wrote: Revenant wrote: psholtz wrote: Revenant wrote: And if your investigation was wrong, and it turned out a new report stated terrorists did 9/11, and it was bulletproof, would you believe it?
Terrorists did carry out 9/11..

I have no argument w/ that assertion.

I mean Middle-Eastern terrorists :wink:

But seriously, hypothetically, would you believe it?
These are the questions of a slave.

I think for myself.

I don't own a TV and even if I did, I would not permit the TV (or anyone or anything else, for that matter) to "tell" and "program" me what to think. It sounds like this is what you desire.. You desire for someone to "tell" you what to believe and what to think.

You and I are obviously cut from (very) different stock.

No, I don't want people to tell me what to think. I come to my own conclusions. However your responses have taught me everything I need to know about you.

Where's the "face turning blue" emoticon when ya need it. :lol:

NAB · Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:57 am Post subject:

psholtz wrote: Revenant wrote: psholtz wrote: Revenant wrote: And if your investigation was wrong, and it turned out a new report stated terrorists did 9/11, and it was bulletproof, would you believe it?
Terrorists did carry out 9/11..

I have no argument w/ that assertion.

I mean Middle-Eastern terrorists :wink:

But seriously, hypothetically, would you believe it?
These are the questions of a slave.

I think for myself.

I don't own a TV and even if I did, I would not permit the TV (or anyone or anything else, for that matter) to "tell" and "program" me what to think. It sounds like this is what you desire.. You desire for someone to "tell" you what to believe and what to think.

You and I are obviously cut from (very) different stock.

Martyr in the house anyone?

Medius · Joined: 10 May 2006 Posts: 4203 Location: Kansas

Free Thinkr wrote: Constitutional Republic wrote: Since the government and Official Theorists have evidence on their side, they should be welcoming a new, independent investigation with open arms. It's the only way to shut us up, and they would be very happy for this to happen. It's a no-loose situation.

And yet they aren't doing this. What are they trying to hide? It wouldn't be the truth now would it?!
Tell you what: investigate yourself, on your own dime. I have no problem whatever with that. I don't understand, however, why I should have to pay for another investigation, just to have it labelled as "half-assed" by disingenuous malcontents. Seriously, there's ample evidence for anyone not determined to see a conspiracy.

The government doesn't trust us with the information necessary to performa thorough investigation. That's why we are seeing so many conspiracy theories floating around. It is not healthy for our country that 30-40% of the people think that it is possible our government may have allowed or taken part in such an atrocity. This isn't a failing by the people, it is a failing by the government in balancing security with educating the people.

Patriot911 · Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Posts: 6937 Location: Denver, CO

Medius wrote: Free Thinkr wrote: Constitutional Republic wrote: Since the government and Official Theorists have evidence on their side, they should be welcoming a new, independent investigation with open arms. It's the only way to shut us up, and they would be very happy for this to happen. It's a no-loose situation.

And yet they aren't doing this. What are they trying to hide? It wouldn't be the truth now would it?!
Tell you what: investigate yourself, on your own dime. I have no problem whatever with that. I don't understand, however, why I should have to pay for another investigation, just to have it labelled as "half-assed" by disingenuous malcontents. Seriously, there's ample evidence for anyone not determined to see a conspiracy.

The government doesn't trust us with the information necessary to performa thorough investigation. That's why we are seeing so many conspiracy theories floating around. It is not healthy for our country that 30-40% of the people think that it is possible our government may have allowed or taken part in such an atrocity. This isn't a failing by the people, it is a failing by the government in balancing security with educating the people.

We are seeing so many conspiracy theories floating about because people are going to be naturally suspicious no matter what. The government could do complete disclosure and the conspiracy crowd would continue to say the government is holding back. The government is in a no win situation because there is no way to prove full disclosure. Look at the comments by people like Psholtz. They aren't going to believe ANYTHING provided by the government unless it proves their theory.

More reasonable people such as yourself might be convinced for a while, but if you constantly have the malcontents claiming the government is lying / behind everything / withholding from you, won't you just start doubting again?

The only thing a new investigation will do besides waste time and money is give the conspiracy theory crowd a small victory by forcing a new investigation. It won't prove anything to people who refuse to look at the facts to begin with.

Medius · Joined: 10 May 2006 Posts: 4203 Location: Kansas

Patriot911 wrote: Medius wrote: Free Thinkr wrote: Constitutional Republic wrote: Since the government and Official Theorists have evidence on their side, they should be welcoming a new, independent investigation with open arms. It's the only way to shut us up, and they would be very happy for this to happen. It's a no-loose situation.

And yet they aren't doing this. What are they trying to hide? It wouldn't be the truth now would it?!
Tell you what: investigate yourself, on your own dime. I have no problem whatever with that. I don't understand, however, why I should have to pay for another investigation, just to have it labelled as "half-assed" by disingenuous malcontents. Seriously, there's ample evidence for anyone not determined to see a conspiracy.

The government doesn't trust us with the information necessary to performa thorough investigation. That's why we are seeing so many conspiracy theories floating around. It is not healthy for our country that 30-40% of the people think that it is possible our government may have allowed or taken part in such an atrocity. This isn't a failing by the people, it is a failing by the government in balancing security with educating the people.

We are seeing so many conspiracy theories floating about because people are going to be naturally suspicious no matter what. The government could do complete disclosure and the conspiracy crowd would continue to say the government is holding back. The government is in a no win situation because there is no way to prove full disclosure. Look at the comments by people like Psholtz. They aren't going to believe ANYTHING provided by the government unless it proves their theory.

More reasonable people such as yourself might be convinced for a while, but if you constantly have the malcontents claiming the government is lying / behind everything / withholding from you, won't you just start doubting again?

The only thing a new investigation will do besides waste time and money is give the conspiracy theory crowd a small victory by forcing a new investigation. It won't prove anything to people who refuse to look at the facts to begin with.

Generally I would put the truly skeptical, will never be convinced populace at more like 5-7% fluctuating. There is a pointed increase right now that is directly correlated to the fact that the government isn't acquitting their duty to educate the populace.

I myself am in a slightly different category. I am more concerned about the system and how it can be abused. A conspiracy existing now is a concern, but secondary to the fact that it is statistically improbable that we will not, in our future, have a president that would gladly exploit the system and take opressive control. I generally shy from bringing up Hitler because of the other connotations that come with him, including the comparisons made to just about any percieved threat. Why I do bring him up is because he is a perfect example of how the right proportions of charisma, intelligence, and brutal insanity can take control of and destroy a country.

Hitler is a product of a series of genetic and social factors that have existed, do exist, and will continue to exist for many centuries to come. He is an anomoly but not statistically improbable. There will be a day where such an anomoly finds a way to our presidency and if our protections are eroded, his power will be unchecked. The ground-work is in place and precedence is being set for future erosions of our liberties and our checks and balances. For fear of a percieved threat, we are pushing power upon the federal government to act in our best intrest while relying on their decency without any real knowledge as to what it is they choose to do.

So, quite simply, I subscribe to the theory that a conspiracy is possible. I choose to investigate conspiracy theories to gauge for myself the current threats to and weaknesses of our system.

Right now, we give our politicians the benefit of the doubt. We give them trust and in some cases blind faith. We judge them very lightly, accepting the corruptions and allowing them great failings simply for fear of the alternative candidates. We cannot assume that our politicians have our interests at heart, we must make them prove it, with every vote and every action. When they fail their duty, even a little, we need to hold them to account and find someone else to represent our will.

Basically, if we don't push our government to prove to us that they are working for our interests, they needn't and eventually will not work for our interests at all, but rather the interests of those who do watch and reward or punish their actions.

Claudia Schiffer · Joined: 26 Jul 2006 Posts: 3234

I heard the man in charge of the 911 commission say, on Canadian tv, that the commission was bound to fail from the start :shock: !! :shock: !!...he also said he expect people to find a hundred mistake :shock: ....So i think a new ''independent'' investigation is in order. :wink: