Political Crossfire Forums

drBo · Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:26 am Post subject:

Anyone who watches that and believes it should just go home and slit their wrists (because they obviously can't shoot themselves)

Lucky Luke · Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 8662 Location: Scotland

Wolverine wrote: Thank the heavens I am not anti-gun. But I must ask, if I was, would I see the world as seen in this cartoon?
I haven't seen any reports on the news of daily gun battles between gang members. Not to mention in three days, September 14th, will be the two year anniversary of the AWB sunset. Who here is waiting for the streets to run with blood?

http://www.bradynetwork.org/site/PageServer?pagename=BCP_shootiful

The murder rate is up in America, that you can't deny.

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Lucky Luke · Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 8662 Location: Scotland

drBo wrote: Anyone who watches that and believes it should just go home and slit their wrists (because they obviously can't shoot themselves)

Here you are Drbo:

Quote: An estimated 16,692 persons were murdered nationwide in 2005, an increase of 3.4 percent from the 2004 figure.

............

Of the homicides for which the type of weapon was specified, firearms were used in 72.6 percent of the offenses. (Based on Expanded Homicide Data Table 7.) Of the identified firearms used, handguns comprised 87.3 percent.
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/

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lilwolf · Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 14180 Location: idaho

Lucky Luke wrote: drBo wrote: Anyone who watches that and believes it should just go home and slit their wrists (because they obviously can't shoot themselves)

Here you are Drbo:

Quote: An estimated 16,692 persons were murdered nationwide in 2005, an increase of 3.4 percent from the 2004 figure.

............

Of the homicides for which the type of weapon was specified, firearms were used in 72.6 percent of the offenses. (Based on Expanded Homicide Data Table 7.) Of the identified firearms used, handguns comprised 87.3 percent.
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/

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That is incorrect LL. The BJS also showed that the amount of people murdered from 1996 to 2005 dropped 26.3% and only rose .6% in 2005
The FBI aslo from your source showed and reported that crime in the following areas dropped from 1996 to 2005
Murder ---down 15.0%
Violent crime ---down 26.3%
murder and non negligent-----down 24.0%

These are your sources LL and no one elses. Take a look and quit padding the numbers to use as you need.

RooK · Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 2006 Location: SE Kentucky

Japan has a higher suicide rate than the US and no guns. Hmm...

Lucky Luke · Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 8662 Location: Scotland

lilwolf wrote: Lucky Luke wrote: drBo wrote: Anyone who watches that and believes it should just go home and slit their wrists (because they obviously can't shoot themselves)

Here you are Drbo:

Quote: An estimated 16,692 persons were murdered nationwide in 2005, an increase of 3.4 percent from the 2004 figure.

............

Of the homicides for which the type of weapon was specified, firearms were used in 72.6 percent of the offenses. (Based on Expanded Homicide Data Table 7.) Of the identified firearms used, handguns comprised 87.3 percent.
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/

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That is incorrect LL. The BJS also showed that the amount of people murdered from 1996 to 2005 dropped 26.3% and only rose .6% in 2005
The FBI aslo from your source showed and reported that crime in the following areas dropped from 1996 to 2005
Murder ---down 15.0%
Violent crime ---down 26.3%
murder and non negligent-----down 24.0%

These are your sources LL and no one elses. Take a look and quit padding the numbers to use as you need.

What is incorrect Lilwolf?

I posted numbers straight from official sources, those numbers are true numbers and have nothing to do with the numbers you are posting Lilwolf.

Can we have a little more honesty from you Lilwolf, this can't go on.

This is correct:

Quote: An estimated 16,692 persons were murdered nationwide in 2005, an increase of 3.4 percent from the 2004 figure.

So is this:

Quote: Of the homicides for which the type of weapon was specified, firearms were used in 72.6 percent of the offenses. (Based on Expanded Homicide Data Table 7.) Of the identified firearms used, handguns comprised 87.3 percent.

Now if you want to contest those statements you have to use an official source showing different numbers for the same years Lilwolf.
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Lucky Luke · Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 8662 Location: Scotland

RooK wrote: Japan has a higher suicide rate than the US and no guns. Hmm...

Japan has a well known tradition of suicide with swords Rook, a tradition that Japan is fighting and not exporting or glorifying. What about fighting your tradition of killing one another with guns in America Rook?

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Wolverine · Joined: 15 Jul 2005 Posts: 10981 Location: Podunk, Colorado

RooK, we must all understand, with every other country that has higher crime rates its culture. And the guns make the American dogs commit crimes.

lilwolf · Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 14180 Location: idaho

Well obviously you do not believe the numbers from your own so called accurate site being what I posted . So LL you are all on your own because I am apparently the only one that is going to argue with you on any type of permanent basis. So I am ending my fun of listening to you and you mental obsession over gun control that will not work.

Have a good day.

Lucky Luke · Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 8662 Location: Scotland

lilwolf wrote: Well obviously you do not believe the numbers from your own so called accurate site being what I posted . So LL you are all on your own because I am apparently the only one that is going to argue with you on any type of permanent basis. So I am ending my fun of listening to you and you mental obsession over gun control that will not work.

Have a good day.

You are welcome not to call incorrect true numbers from official sources Lilwolf, come back when you decide to debate honestly.

I have no mental obsession over gun control, I am debating gun control in a gun control forum Lilwolf, check the title of this forum!
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lilwolf · Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 14180 Location: idaho

Lucky Luke wrote: Wolverine wrote: Thank the heavens I am not anti-gun. But I must ask, if I was, would I see the world as seen in this cartoon?
I haven't seen any reports on the news of daily gun battles between gang members. Not to mention in three days, September 14th, will be the two year anniversary of the AWB sunset. Who here is waiting for the streets to run with blood?

http://www.bradynetwork.org/site/PageServer?pagename=BCP_shootiful

The murder rate is up in America, that you can't deny.

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The rate is up a whole .6% by the so called accurate source from LL. I do not see that as a big jump .

Lucky Luke · Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 8662 Location: Scotland

lilwolf wrote: Lucky Luke wrote: Wolverine wrote: Thank the heavens I am not anti-gun. But I must ask, if I was, would I see the world as seen in this cartoon?
I haven't seen any reports on the news of daily gun battles between gang members. Not to mention in three days, September 14th, will be the two year anniversary of the AWB sunset. Who here is waiting for the streets to run with blood?

http://www.bradynetwork.org/site/PageServer?pagename=BCP_shootiful

The murder rate is up in America, that you can't deny.

:-D
:-D

The rate is up a whole .6% by the so called accurate source from LL. I do not see that as a big jump .

You wrote:

lilwolf wrote: The BJS also showed that the amount of people murdered from 1996 to 2005 dropped 26.3% and only rose .6% in 2005

It rose 3.4 per cent in 2005 from the 2004 figure Lilwolf not 0.6%. At this yearly increasing rate the American murder rate will be back up where it was 10 years ago in 10 years time, nearly double of what it is today.

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Mr X · Joined: 20 Jan 2005 Posts: 402 Location: BC

They could have at least made that thing more amusing. I'm ok with anti-gun propaganda as long as it's amusing anti-gun propaganda.

lilwolf · Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 14180 Location: idaho

Lucky Luke wrote: lilwolf wrote: Lucky Luke wrote: Wolverine wrote: Thank the heavens I am not anti-gun. But I must ask, if I was, would I see the world as seen in this cartoon?
I haven't seen any reports on the news of daily gun battles between gang members. Not to mention in three days, September 14th, will be the two year anniversary of the AWB sunset. Who here is waiting for the streets to run with blood?

http://www.bradynetwork.org/site/PageServer?pagename=BCP_shootiful

The murder rate is up in America, that you can't deny.

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LL the BJS site which is one of your favorite sites has the increase at .6% from 2004 to 2005. So obviously your link is incorrect. See another example of you not likeing the numbers that someone else has and there is a difference in sources both of which are govt. sources....so again you are wrong or right ...who know LL. You love the numbers that are higher so you can attempt to look good and I like it the other way. So which site do you want to use LL?

The rate is up a whole .6% by the so called accurate source from LL. I do not see that as a big jump .

You wrote:

lilwolf wrote: The BJS also showed that the amount of people murdered from 1996 to 2005 dropped 26.3% and only rose .6% in 2005

It rose 3.4 per cent in 2005 from the 2004 figure Lilwolf not 0.6%. At this yearly increasing rate the American murder rate will be back up where it was 10 years ago in 10 years time, nearly double of what it is today.

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Lucky Luke · Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 8662 Location: Scotland

lilwolf wrote: Lucky Luke wrote: lilwolf wrote: Lucky Luke wrote: Wolverine wrote: Thank the heavens I am not anti-gun. But I must ask, if I was, would I see the world as seen in this cartoon?
I haven't seen any reports on the news of daily gun battles between gang members. Not to mention in three days, September 14th, will be the two year anniversary of the AWB sunset. Who here is waiting for the streets to run with blood?

http://www.bradynetwork.org/site/PageServer?pagename=BCP_shootiful

The murder rate is up in America, that you can't deny.

:-D
:-D

LL the BJS site which is one of your favorite sites has the increase at .6% from 2004 to 2005. So obviously your link is incorrect. See another example of you not likeing the numbers that someone else has and there is a difference in sources both of which are govt. sources....so again you are wrong or right ...who know LL. You love the numbers that are higher so you can attempt to look good and I like it the other way. So which site do you want to use LL?

The rate is up a whole .6% by the so called accurate source from LL. I do not see that as a big jump .

You wrote:

lilwolf wrote: The BJS also showed that the amount of people murdered from 1996 to 2005 dropped 26.3% and only rose .6% in 2005

It rose 3.4 per cent in 2005 from the 2004 figure Lilwolf not 0.6%. At this yearly increasing rate the American murder rate will be back up where it was 10 years ago in 10 years time, nearly double of what it is today.

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No, Lilwolf the BJS site does not show that the amount of people murdered rose 0.6% from 2004 to 2005 because the BJS has not updated it's site yet with the 2005 FBI stats.

You were wrong, again.

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ChuckBerry · Joined: 01 Aug 2007 Posts: 2396 Location: Lafayette, LA

Wolverine wrote: guns make the American dogs commit crimes.
Materialist......

ChuckBerry · Joined: 01 Aug 2007 Posts: 2396 Location: Lafayette, LA

Note in the original cartoon the TransAmerica building in the background....

Notice also that it attempts to demonize Christians........

And brings up the theocracy bogeyman.........

Clearly a very leftwing propaganda piece, not made for general consumption (except those that have Pacifica Radio on their presets....)

As for gun crime statistics, one can never win an argument with a lefty throwing statistics at each other. I don't bother with it, because imo it is irrelevant. I don't care how many crimes are committed with other guns, because no crime has been committed with MY gun. As far as the law is concerned, that is all that should matter.

Lucky Luke · Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 8662 Location: Scotland

CCD wrote: Note in the original cartoon the TransAmerica building in the background....

Notice also that it attempts to demonize Christians........

And brings up the theocracy bogeyman.........

Clearly a very leftwing propaganda piece, not made for general consumption (except those that have Pacifica Radio on their presets....)

As for gun crime statistics, one can never win an argument with a lefty throwing statistics at each other. I don't bother with it, because imo it is irrelevant. I don't care how many crimes are committed with other guns, because no crime has been committed with MY gun. As far as the law is concerned, that is all that should matter.

It is difficult to debate gun control with a poster that doesn't believe in reducing the amount of murders with guns in America being a thing to do.
Gun control laws are written for all CCD not only for you and your gun, this is the same for all laws you know.

If you don't care, why debating CCD?
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ChuckBerry · Joined: 01 Aug 2007 Posts: 2396 Location: Lafayette, LA

Lucky Luke wrote:
It is difficult to debate gun control with a poster that doesn't believe in reducing the amount of murders with guns in America being a thing to do.
What is the name of this poster that doesn't believe in reducing the amount of murders with guns in America?

Lucky Luke wrote: Gun control laws are written for all CCD not only for you and your gun, this is the same for all laws you know.
Which is my point entirely. Since my gun has not been used to commit a crime, and its owner has no intention of committing a crime with it, I ought not be restricted in its use for its intended, lawful purpose: protecting myself against violent attack.

My gun is already controlled: by me.

Lucky Luke wrote: If you don't care, why debating CCD?
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I care because of the paternalistic attitude of posters who think that my rights to own a gun ought to be restricted because of some other damned fools who can't control themselves.

All gun control arguments general boil down to the ultimate soverignty issue. Are the people soverign, or is the government? I side with the people.

What about you?

Lucky Luke · Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 8662 Location: Scotland

CCD wrote: Lucky Luke wrote:
It is difficult to debate gun control with a poster that doesn't believe in reducing the amount of murders with guns in America being a thing to do.
What is the name of this poster that doesn't believe in reducing the amount of murders with guns in America?

...............

You:

Quote: .... I don't care how many crimes are committed with other guns, because no crime has been committed with MY gun. As far as the law is concerned, that is all that should matter....

Are you not including murders in the number of crimes committed with guns CCD?

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