Political Crossfire Forums

kelvin90703 · Joined: 05 Feb 2004 Posts: 1830

I admit, this is not a statistically important event. Nor do I have any more statistical proof that gun control kills more people:

http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/nation/guns/part2/gunside1.html

Without a doubt 2 people are dead from gun control. So are others in this massacre. The point? It is just as statistically important as a school shooting. Yet gun control is being based on such statistically unimportant events and used to support a stupid public policy. School shootings and Luby are both great tragedy, both very emotional events. Good and effective propaganda appeals to emotions, not to reason. It is the emotions and propaganda that have been used to institute the public policy of gun control.

Yukon · Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 710

Am I supposed to care ?

mitsi_mirage · Joined: 21 Jan 2004 Posts: 3193 Location: FRESNO, CA

Yukon wrote: Am I supposed to care ?

You are cold hearted person.

Windy · Joined: 17 Jan 2004 Posts: 3451 Location: Wolverhampton

Although of cause if there was proper gun control chances are they wouldn't be getting shot at in the first place.

kelvin90703 · Joined: 05 Feb 2004 Posts: 1830

Windy wrote: Although of cause if there was proper gun control chances are they wouldn't be getting shot at in the first place.

Works in your country, without violating civil rights. Not in ours. Violating civil rights = illegal in our country.

kelvin90703 · Joined: 05 Feb 2004 Posts: 1830

mitsi_mirage wrote: Yukon wrote: Am I supposed to care ?

You are cold hearted person.

The real reason for gun control from Yukon. It is not about saving lives. Not about morality. Not about doing what is right. It is about doing what he wants. Please refer to his handgun ownership poll. Regardless of a laws, civil rights, and legislative popularity, it comes down it what he wants. Sir you never get elected to political office. Your a tyrant.

Windy · Joined: 17 Jan 2004 Posts: 3451 Location: Wolverhampton

kelvin90703 wrote: Windy wrote: Although of cause if there was proper gun control chances are they wouldn't be getting shot at in the first place.

Works in your country, without violating civil rights. Not in ours. Violating civil rights = illegal in our country.

Fair enough, and thats the best I can hope to get out of you as regards banning guns.
You are right about this though, if its that easy to get a gun in your country its criminal not to allow people to carry them around.

Yukon · Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 710

kelvin90703 wrote: mitsi_mirage wrote: Yukon wrote: Am I supposed to care ?

You are cold hearted person.

Your a tyrant.

KEVLAR, Coming from you old boy your insult is a compliment.

Dutchguy · Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:34 pm Post subject:

Quote: Works in your country, without violating civil rights. Not in ours. Violating civil rights = illegal in our country.

Violating civil rights is illegal in just about every non dictatorial country, but we've been over this before. The whole point of these discussions is wether it should be a civil right to carry guns in the first place...

kelvin90703 · Joined: 05 Feb 2004 Posts: 1830

Dutchguy wrote: Quote: Works in your country, without violating civil rights. Not in ours. Violating civil rights = illegal in our country.

Violating civil rights is illegal in just about every non dictatorial country, but we've been over this before. The whole point of these discussions is wether it should be a civil right to carry guns in the first place...

The civil right to own a gun in the USA is not debatable. It is a fact.

In 32 or 33 or 34 states, I can not remember the actual number. It is a right to carry a gun. That is not debateable. It is a fact.

Then how do you convince the American citizenry to give up thier civil right? With the promise of saftey? No proof it exists. With the moral authority? Gun control leadersip are shooting people and carrying guns. Good luck.

Yukon · Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 710

Please dont even mention the words "civil rights". For a Republican to even mention civiul rights violations is hypocritical. You guys supported Junior's nazi-like Patriot Act. Civil rights to a Repukelican is not in the vocabulary.

kelvin90703 · Joined: 05 Feb 2004 Posts: 1830

Yukon wrote: Please dont even mention the words "civil rights". For a Republican to even mention civiul rights violations is hypocritical. You guys supported Junior's nazi-like Patriot Act. Civil rights to a Repukelican is not in the vocabulary.

What are you talking about. That Act is getting guns off the street. You should be proud.

Dutchguy · Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 5:03 pm Post subject:

Quote: The civil right to own a gun in the USA is not debatable. It is a fact.

Yes, it is a fact. Yes, it most certainly is also debatable. Being a piece of legislation, that particular right can be scrapped if so desired. As to the how and when, we've been over this before and I'm not going to again. But even if there is NO how and when, the fact still remains that even without ANY proof any piece of legislation can be scrapped if the majority of the people feel this is desirable...

kelvin90703 · Joined: 05 Feb 2004 Posts: 1830

Dutchguy wrote: Quote: The civil right to own a gun in the USA is not debatable. It is a fact.

Yes, it is a fact. Yes, it most certainly is also debatable. Being a piece of legislation, that particular right can be scrapped if so desired. As to the how and when, we've been over this before and I'm not going to again. But even if there is NO how and when, the fact still remains that even without ANY proof any piece of legislation can be scrapped if the majority of the people feel this is desirable...

The process to amend the Constitution is not what I take issue with. It is how do you propose to convince the citiznery to give up the right to bear arms?

1) From anti-gun leadership who enjoy protection from sub-machine guns?
2) From anti-gun leadership who are in jail for attempted murder with a gun?
3) From NOT one single cause and effect ever proven in any country by any study?
4) With 33/34 states currently handing out concealed weapons permits?
5) Please see thread: "A little math"

Good luck.

UZI4U · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 101

Windy wrote: kelvin90703 wrote: Windy wrote: Although of cause if there was proper gun control chances are they wouldn't be getting shot at in the first place.

Works in your country, without violating civil rights. Not in ours. Violating civil rights = illegal in our country.

Fair enough, and thats the best I can hope to get out of you as regards banning guns.
You are right about this though, if its that easy to get a gun in your country its criminal not to allow people to carry them around.
Last I checked, shotguns and bolt action rifles were still LEGAL in Britain...

Yukon · Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 710

kelvin90703 wrote: mitsi_mirage wrote: Yukon wrote: Am I supposed to care ?

You are cold hearted person.

The real reason for gun control from Yukon. It is not about saving lives. Not about morality. Not about doing what is right. It is about doing what he wants. Please refer to his handgun ownership poll. Regardless of a laws, civil rights, and legislative popularity, it comes down it what he wants. Sir you never get elected to political office. Your a tyrant.

KELVIN,

You're dead wrong my friend. It's what I and millions of others want - controls up to and including bannishing handguns from the general population. People are sick and tired of living in an armed encampment, afraid to go out at night in case some wacked out screwball decides to exercise his 2nd Amendment rights and blow them away. We are sick and tired of sending our children to school in case they may be shot. No KELVIN, it's not about me. It's about everyone.

UZI4U · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 101

Yukon wrote: You're dead wrong my friend. It's what I and millions of others want - controls up to and including bannishing handguns from the general population. People are sick and tired of living in an armed encampment, afraid to go out at night in case some wacked out screwball decides to exercise his 2nd Amendment rights and blow them away. We are sick and tired of sending our children to school in case they may be shot. No KELVIN, it's not about me. It's about everyone.
Law abiding gun owners, like me, and 75 million others in the US are NOT the ones out shooting up gas stations. The people who get their guns ILLEGALLY are the ones that commit violent crimes.

In the 1950's, kids carried shotguns to school, to go hunting aftarwards. How many school shooting were there back then? NONE! NOT ONE AT ALL!

kelvin90703 · Joined: 05 Feb 2004 Posts: 1830

Yukon wrote: kelvin90703 wrote: mitsi_mirage wrote: Yukon wrote: Am I supposed to care ?

You are cold hearted person.

The real reason for gun control from Yukon. It is not about saving lives. Not about morality. Not about doing what is right. It is about doing what he wants. Please refer to his handgun ownership poll. Regardless of a laws, civil rights, and legislative popularity, it comes down it what he wants. Sir you never get elected to political office. Your a tyrant.

KELVIN,

You're dead wrong my friend. It's what I and millions of others want - controls up to and including bannishing handguns from the general population. People are sick and tired of living in an armed encampment, afraid to go out at night in case some wacked out screwball decides to exercise his 2nd Amendment rights and blow them away. We are sick and tired of sending our children to school in case they may be shot. No KELVIN, it's not about me. It's about everyone.

The "WE" people don't seem to be voting. The same people who vote at gun stores by buying guns and ammo are voting at the gun store and at the polls. Good luck.

kelvin90703 · Joined: 05 Feb 2004 Posts: 1830

UZI4U wrote: Yukon wrote: You're dead wrong my friend. It's what I and millions of others want - controls up to and including bannishing handguns from the general population. People are sick and tired of living in an armed encampment, afraid to go out at night in case some wacked out screwball decides to exercise his 2nd Amendment rights and blow them away. We are sick and tired of sending our children to school in case they may be shot. No KELVIN, it's not about me. It's about everyone.
Law abiding gun owners, like me, and 75 million others in the US are NOT the ones out shooting up gas stations. The people who get their guns ILLEGALLY are the ones that commit violent crimes.

In the 1950's, kids carried shotguns to school, to go hunting aftarwards. How many school shooting were there back then? NONE! NOT ONE AT ALL!

Who is gun control trying to save? How about the white males?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/10/03/national/main576422.shtml

Please click on the "Guns in America" hypertex. Then "Who is at risk"

All the deaths COMBINED for all ages, race, and gender; do not add up to the deaths of white men who commit sucide. So then? Wouldn't a more effective social control to firearm death should be a nation wide mental health program? School shootings? I recall a lot of troubled teens and mental illness in adults who were perps in those crimes. Gun control certainly is ineffective in as a cure for depression, paranoia, and anger.

mitsi_mirage · Joined: 21 Jan 2004 Posts: 3193 Location: FRESNO, CA

UZI4U wrote: Yukon wrote: You're dead wrong my friend. It's what I and millions of others want - controls up to and including bannishing handguns from the general population. People are sick and tired of living in an armed encampment, afraid to go out at night in case some wacked out screwball decides to exercise his 2nd Amendment rights and blow them away. We are sick and tired of sending our children to school in case they may be shot. No KELVIN, it's not about me. It's about everyone.
Law abiding gun owners, like me, and 75 million others in the US are NOT the ones out shooting up gas stations. The people who get their guns ILLEGALLY are the ones that commit violent crimes.

In the 1950's, kids carried shotguns to school, to go hunting aftarwards. How many school shooting were there back then? NONE! NOT ONE AT ALL!

That is so true. There is something that is called the UNDERGROUND BLACK MARKET. This is the #1 reason why guns shouldn't be restricted to citizens like you and me! We have the right to defend ourselves from these people who illegally purchase guns, and are not supposed to even have in their possession. What would happen if one of these felons decided to go "human hunting" on bright sunny afternoon? How many citizens would be able to defend ourselves, besides the help of harsh language and our butter knives? Any one of us who spoted someone in a killing spree could save someone's life; if we had a gun. But if we didn't, how long would it take an officer to get to the scene of the crime? WHAT IF the officer got wounded of this person? Then everyone had to wait for the next officer to show up.

The moral of all this is that a citizen can prevent all this happening from happening. How? Because having the right to protect ourselves, also meaning we have the right to protect others from eminent danger as well.