Political Crossfire Forums

[Wizard From Oz]

Quote: Why do I suddenly have this overwhelming sense that I will see history repeat itself?


What in Europe?

No just the world in general. International tension had been building since about 1905 - Suddenly out of one event the top blew off. From the time of the Austrian demands to virtually the whole of Europe being at war is 8 days!!!

- To Comrad. My reference didn't discuss the terms handed to the Serbians. It would be interesting to know what they where - particularly the one that they said no to.

And am I right in thinking after all that, the Austrians didn't actually manage to defeat the Serbs anyway?

[mendosan]

MG1962 wrote: Quote: Why do I suddenly have this overwhelming sense that I will see history repeat itself?


What in Europe?

No just the world in general. International tension had been building since about 1905 - Suddenly out of one event the top blew off. From the time of the Austrian demands to virtually the whole of Europe being at war is 8 days!!!

- To Comrad. My reference didn't discuss the terms handed to the Serbians. It would be interesting to know what they where - particularly the one that they said no to.

And am I right in thinking after all that, the Austrians didn't actually manage to defeat the Serbs anyway?

You could argue that tensions had been building since the Franco-Prussian war or even before that, or you could argue that the tensions had always been there, I don't see anything resembling the build up to world war one in today's worlds.

[Wizard From Oz]

Quote: You could argue that tensions had been building since the Franco-Prussian war or even before that, or you could argue that the tensions had always been there, I don't see anything resembling the build up to world war one in today's worlds.

Well for once I am happy to say - I hope you are right, and I am wrong

[Domoviye]

MG1962 wrote:
- To Comrad. My reference didn't discuss the terms handed to the Serbians. It would be interesting to know what they where - particularly the one that they said no to.

And am I right in thinking after all that, the Austrians didn't actually manage to defeat the Serbs anyway?

Heres the entire Austrian ultimatum.
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/1914/austro-hungarian-ultimatum.html

Here's the Serbian response.
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/1914/serbresponse.html

The most important parts of the Austrian ultimatum are here.
Quote: 6. to institute a judicial inquiry against every participant in the conspiracy of the twenty-eighth of June who may be found in Serbian territory; the organs of the Imperial and Royal Government delegated for this purpose will take part in the proceedings held for this purpose;

And the Serbian response to it.
Quote: 6. The Royal Government considers it its duty as a matter of course to begin an investigation against all those persons who have participated in the outrage of June 28th and who are in its territory. As far as the cooperation in this investigation of specially delegated officials of the I. and R. Government is concerned, this cannot be accepted, as this is a violation of the constitution and of criminal procedure. Yet in some cases the result of the investigation might be communicated to the Austro-Hungarian officials.

Serbia bent over backwards to appease Austria, but because they were unwilling to allow the Austrians a place in trials held in Serbia by Serbian laws, Austria attacked. Most of the participants were amazed at how far Serbia did go in appeasing Austria, expecting Serbia to refuse most of the demands. Considering that some of the demands called for the removal of officers and politicians for criticizing Austria and voicing support for the Slav agitators; Serbia could not have done more without effectively becoming a vassal state of Austria's.

As for Austria defeating Serbia, they did. It took over a year, and required most of the Austrian army after Germany took over fighting Russia, but they succeeded.

Now for the original poster.
WW1 was bound to happen. As JimZ said traditional power was slipping. The new powers Germany, USA, and Italy were looking to become or increase their Great Power Status. Russia, Britain and particularly France were attempting to keep their Great Power Status. Austria-Hungary just wanted to survive.

Once Russia and France formed the Double Entente it was simply a matter of time before a large European War broke out.

It nearly did in 1905 when France tried to solidify its hold on Morocco. Germany tried to prevent it, and France refused to back down. Only the fact that Russia was still suffering from internal unrest after the minor attempted Communist Revolution, and being humiliated by the Japanese, made France agree to the compromise suggestion of Britain. Once Britain got involved Germany was willing to back off as well.

In 1908 Austria-Hungary seized control of Slavic Bosnia, which made both Serbia and Russia threaten war. But Germany informed them that they would stand by their treaty with Austria if there was a war. France was unwilling to go to war over a country in the Balkans, and Russia was still trying to modernize its army. Also Britain having no interests in the region refused to get involved. So the Double Entente backed down, but the entire issue set the Balkans on edge.

In 1911 France and Germany once more faced off over Morocco. Once more Britain sided with France, forcing Germany to back off. But Germany still got a portion of the French Congo in return for backing down.

When Prince Ferdinand was killed it was seized by Austria-Hungary as a way to remove Serbia for good. As the alliances mobilized, Britain waffled. The public was split on its willingness to fight over a minor Balkan country. So Prince Wilhelm believed they would stay out of any war. He was nearly right. It was only after they invaded Belgium that Britain entered, as it gave the side that wanted to fight a way to polarize the issue.
So instead of being a European War it became a World War.

[ubikk]

[quote="The_Right_Honourable"] thundertaker wrote: ubikk wrote:

I have. By comparison, there was rarely anything on the scale of the European conflicts that went on in Asia it was more localized and of a smaller scale.

Bollocks...

http://experts.about.com/e/t/ta/Taiping_Rebellion.htm

http://www.hyperhistory.com/online_n2/civil_n2/histscript6_n2/golden.html


Bad war. The region as a whole still does not compare to Europe with over 1000 years with no peace and two world wars and miltary global colonization. I maintain my position.