Political Crossfire Forums

Hypocritical_Hypocrisy · Joined: 30 Aug 2006 Posts: 104 Location: Your bathroom!

It astounds me that anyone would be willing to kill a baby, much less their own. It is beyond my mind understanding the need for this.
How can anyone defend killing a defenseless baby? How can society accept such amorality with a smile on it's face? I just cannot for the life of me comprehend what makes killing a baby right...

So, I ask all you pro-choicers, how do you justify this?

AllAmericanMan · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 3606

Hypocritical_Hypocrisy wrote: It astounds me that anyone would be willing to kill a baby, much less their own. It is beyond my mind understanding the need for this.
How can anyone defend killing a defenseless baby? How can society accept such amorality with a smile on it's face? I just cannot for the life of me comprehend what makes killing a baby right...

So, I ask all you pro-choicers, how do you justify this?

Well they have many different opinions and arguments, all of which can be torn to shreds with very logical arguments from us pro lifers. :wink:

TheCaliforniaLife · Joined: 18 Sep 2005 Posts: 426 Location: California

AllAmericanMan wrote: Hypocritical_Hypocrisy wrote: It astounds me that anyone would be willing to kill a baby, much less their own. It is beyond my mind understanding the need for this.
How can anyone defend killing a defenseless baby? How can society accept such amorality with a smile on it's face? I just cannot for the life of me comprehend what makes killing a baby right...

So, I ask all you pro-choicers, how do you justify this?

Well they have many different opinions and arguments, all of which can be torn to shreds with very logical arguments from us pro lifers. :wink:
Of course :-D

name · Joined: 23 May 2006 Posts: 144

No, I will not kill a baby. Yes, I will get rid of the newly fertilized egg with birth control pills and, if the need arises, kill an unwanted first- trimester embryo that has somehow begun to grow inside me.

Lumina · Joined: 16 Mar 2006 Posts: 13517

That has "somehow" begun to grow inside of you?!

Selfish_Meme · Joined: 31 Jan 2006 Posts: 726

By baby you of course mean unborn baby right? Or are we just talking overall? It's a fairly non-specific question. Of course it IS designed to elicit a response only slightly linked to the subject of abortion.

I said yes, because i would put a fully functional adult ahead of a baby, in terms of value. If you gave me a switch and forced me to press one by saying something like, if you don't choose then everyone dies, or you can kill the baby or the adult, then I would save the adult.

Sorry to all baby lovers but personally I think mind is the most valuable human attribute, and potential mind does not equal current mind.

Hypocritical_Hypocrisy · Joined: 30 Aug 2006 Posts: 104 Location: Your bathroom!

Right... a baby is a baby at any stage. Hiding behind different names just proves how wrong it is. You don't want to recognize what it really is you're doing, you want to distance yourself from the truth as much as possible by hiding behind scientific termage. What is abortion? Killing babies!

This has everything to do with abortion.

TheGirlNextDoor · Joined: 08 Jul 2004 Posts: 22608

Hypocritical_Hypocrisy wrote: Right... a baby is a baby at any stage. Hiding behind different names just proves how wrong it is. You don't want to recognize what it really is you're doing, you want to distance yourself from the truth as much as possible by hiding behind scientific termage. What is abortion? Killing babies!

This has everything to do with abortion.

That's the whole crux of the debate - when does human life begin? I suppose it will continue to be the hinging point for the entire abortion debate for years to come.. and one of the reasons why this forum sees the same arguments over and over and over again.

Some will argue that a fetus is not a baby until it takes its first breath (after it is born), and I disagree... of course, I would never choose an abortion as an alternative.

But that is me.

The Grandmaster · Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:36 pm Post subject: Re: Why is this even a question?!

AllAmericanMan wrote: Hypocritical_Hypocrisy wrote: It astounds me that anyone would be willing to kill a baby, much less their own. It is beyond my mind understanding the need for this.
How can anyone defend killing a defenseless baby? How can society accept such amorality with a smile on it's face? I just cannot for the life of me comprehend what makes killing a baby right...

So, I ask all you pro-choicers, how do you justify this?

Well they have many different opinions and arguments, all of which can be torn to shreds with very logical arguments from us pro lifers. :wink:

Apparently this isn't the case. In the 700 posts in the 6 months I argued in here, mine were not.

TheCaliforniaLife · Joined: 18 Sep 2005 Posts: 426 Location: California

Hypocritical_Hypocrisy wrote: Right... a baby is a baby at any stage. Hiding behind different names just proves how wrong it is. You don't want to recognize what it really is you're doing, you want to distance yourself from the truth as much as possible by hiding behind scientific termage. What is abortion? Killing babies!

This has everything to do with abortion.
The hiding behind different names is called terministic screening ^^ A little FF (fun fact)

Obilisk18 · Joined: 14 Jan 2006 Posts: 538

Selfish_Meme wrote: By baby you of course mean unborn baby right? Or are we just talking overall? It's a fairly non-specific question. Of course it IS designed to elicit a response only slightly linked to the subject of abortion.

I said yes, because i would put a fully functional adult ahead of a baby, in terms of value. If you gave me a switch and forced me to press one by saying something like, if you don't choose then everyone dies, or you can kill the baby or the adult, then I would save the adult.

Sorry to all baby lovers but personally I think mind is the most valuable human attribute, and potential mind does not equal current mind.

The thing I like about your arguments is that they're at least largely consistent. I find them abhorrent, but you certainly stick to your guns. Bully for you.

Prog · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 2071

Hypocritical_Hypocrisy wrote: It astounds me that anyone would be willing to kill a baby, much less their own. It is beyond my mind understanding the need for this.
How can anyone defend killing a defenseless baby? How can society accept such amorality with a smile on it's face? I just cannot for the life of me comprehend what makes killing a baby right...

So, I ask all you pro-choicers, how do you justify this?

I find your post in direct contrast to your avatar...then again I just read your forum name......Your a complex individual H_H...nm maybe its just me! :-|

Hypocritical_Hypocrisy · Joined: 30 Aug 2006 Posts: 104 Location: Your bathroom!

Haha, thank you! I try my best. :lol:

Prole · Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 2142 Location: Edinburgh

TheCaliforniaLife wrote: Hypocritical_Hypocrisy wrote: Right... a baby is a baby at any stage. Hiding behind different names just proves how wrong it is. You don't want to recognize what it really is you're doing, you want to distance yourself from the truth as much as possible by hiding behind scientific termage. What is abortion? Killing babies!

This has everything to do with abortion.
The hiding behind different names is called terministic screening ^^ A little FF (fun fact)
Regardless what you choose to call a preborn human in an attempt to appeal to emotion, it does not change what it is for the vast majority of abortions, before 12 weeks.

From conception, a preborn human is biologically a homo sapien. But though it is like born humans in terms of its species, there are many characteristics which it does not share.

Until much later (26th+ week), it has not the slightest semblance of consciousness; it does not have any thoughts or feelings or emotions. It is a parasite, and one that (with our current technology) can survive only if using the pregnant woman as a host; in this way it differs from a newborn in that the woman cannot absolve herself of responsibility. There are certainly other differences, but these two are (to me, at least) the most significant.

Personhood is of course a subjective and varied term. But while a preborn human is certainly biologically a human, in other ways it is not, as well as being a sometimes unwanted invader.

What is abortion? It is, by definition, the ending of a pregnancy. And as it stands, the only way to do so that is safe for the pregnant woman involves killing the preborn human.

HH wrote: How can society accept such amorality with a smile on it's face?
Because abortions are just that; amoral. :wink:

Hypocritical_Hypocrisy · Joined: 30 Aug 2006 Posts: 104 Location: Your bathroom!

Well, if a baby is an "unwanted invader", you shouldn't screw around without popping the pill or using a condom. It is arbitrary and stupid denying a human life simply because you were too lazy to pop a freakin' pill. Also the use of scientific terms to deny that human a face is just as wrong, if not, moreso than what you claim to be "an attempt to appeal to emotion". Amorality is the cause of the majority of problems in the world today, and we don't need any more, eh. Abortion is murder, no more, no less. You can call a tomato anything you want, it doesn't change the fact that it's a tomato.

And, if you pro-choicers are getting dull: Abortion = Terminating = Killing = Murder

Capishe?

JustDucky · Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 38

Hypocritical_Hypocrisy wrote: It astounds me that anyone would be willing to kill a baby, much less their own. It is beyond my mind understanding the need for this.
How can anyone defend killing a defenseless baby? How can society accept such amorality with a smile on it's face? I just cannot for the life of me comprehend what makes killing a baby right...

So, I ask all you pro-choicers, how do you justify this? Easy: just like an egg is not a chicken, a fetus is not a baby. Until it is born, a fetus is part of a woman's body. A woman has a right to do what she chooses with her body.

Nobody's killing babies. Babies are beautiful and once they're born, they deserve all the protections other human beings get. However, I can't grasp for the life of me why the anti-choice contingent wants to force women to give birth against their will. If a woman doesn't want to be a mother, she should have that choice. Nobody has any right telling a woman what she can and cannot do with her own body.

JDHURF · Joined: 01 Jul 2006 Posts: 3012 Location: Tulsa, OK

Hypocritical_Hypocrisy:
Let me summarize a few points real quickly: a fetus is not a baby, abortion is not murder and women are not incubators. If you would like an honest and legitimate discussion and debate regarding the ethical basis of abortion it would be a wise decision to not begin the thread with emotionally charged and intellectually reprehensible hyperbole.

Prole · Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 2142 Location: Edinburgh

Hypocritical_Hypocrisy wrote: Well, if a baby is an "unwanted invader", you shouldn't screw around without popping the pill or using a condom. It is arbitrary and stupid denying a human life simply because you were too lazy to pop a freakin' pill.
Pregnancy is an unwanted consequence, and regardless of how it came about, it is asinine to deny someone the right to deal with a consequence without examing both what the consequence means to the person, and what dealing with it entails. Being pregnant and not being permitted to have an abortion entails the loss of bodily autonomy for the woman. And I contend that not all abortions are murder, as merely being homo sapien alone does not grant personhood.

HH wrote: Also the use of scientific terms to deny that human a face is just as wrong, if not, moreso than what you claim to be "an attempt to appeal to emotion". Amorality is the cause of the majority of problems in the world today, and we don't need any more, eh. Abortion is murder, no more, no less. You can call a tomato anything you want, it doesn't change the fact that it's a tomato.

And, if you pro-choicers are getting dull: Abortion = Terminating = Killing = Murder

Capishe?
I am afraid that I do not understand why abortion is murder, or at least not all abortions. Abortions are not unlawful, nor are (most) a killing of a being with any semblance of sentience, so on both a legal and subjectively moral ground, an abortion is not murder. I appreciate that you believe it is, but frankly, I have no interest in engaging in a figurative shouting match about whether it is murder or not. Please, offer me some evidence why I should care about something merely because it is homo sapien.

I simply see no reason to grant rights of bodily autonomy (including protection) to something that cannot think or feel, especially if granting those rights would infringe upon the rights of one who can, namely the pregnant woman.

LostSoul3412 · Joined: 11 Feb 2005 Posts: 7633 Location: Milwaukee, WI

Hypocritical_Hypocrisy wrote: It astounds me that anyone would be willing to kill a baby, much less their own. It is beyond my mind understanding the need for this.
How can anyone defend killing a defenseless baby? How can society accept such amorality with a smile on it's face? I just cannot for the life of me comprehend what makes killing a baby right...

So, I ask all you pro-choicers, how do you justify this?

I love to kill babies because then I get to eat them afterward.

Satisfied?

Hypocritical_Hypocrisy · Joined: 30 Aug 2006 Posts: 104 Location: Your bathroom!

JDHURF wrote: Hypocritical_Hypocrisy:
Let me summarize a few points real quickly: a fetus is not a baby, abortion is not murder and women are not incubators. If you would like an honest and legitimate discussion and debate regarding the ethical basis of abortion it would be a wise decision to not begin the thread with emotionally charged and intellectually reprehensible hyperbole.

Emotionally charged? Having emotion at all does not does not equal emotionally charged. And is it any less 'intellectually reprehensible' to advocate a new form of infanticide?

I also have a couple of points I want to summarize:
Babies are not sacks of cells to be disposed of indiscriminately, abortion is ending a human life, therefore it is murder, and you are right, women are not incubators, but it is their responsibility for the things they do, as it is for anyone else. This discussion is honest and legitimate, abortion is depriving life from a baby, therefore it is killing. And I suggest that you not defend your homicidal tendencies with terministic screening.

NEWS FLASH!: Ethics are based on morals!