Political Crossfire Forums

[slitedeviance]

MoscowMatt wrote: fiction416 wrote: Furthermore, the civilians are safe from gunfire, as the are hiding around a corner out of the line of gunfire


this picture proves nothing of human shields, sorry

Yeah I mean if a 500lb bomb landed on that militants head all those civilians would be safe because they are just around the corner!!!! :roll:

Check what he actually wrote my friend.

[lilwolf]

programmusic wrote: Kinda makes it hard to avoid "civilian" casualties doesn't it. Also notice that the militant is wearing civilian clothing.





http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/060907/481/d5fb8724ed254cc48ac7a51cfa898da9

This pretty much what these type of situation look like. Somalia was worse because the bad guys had women stand there in the street and they would lay on the ground and shoot from under her and the edge of her dress. They would often also shoot from rooms and buildings that had entire families in them. So how do you miss them, you try but in the end some get capped and that is a fact of war and the bastards we are fighting these days.

[MoscowMatt]

slitedeviance wrote: MoscowMatt wrote: fiction416 wrote: Furthermore, the civilians are safe from gunfire, as the are hiding around a corner out of the line of gunfire


this picture proves nothing of human shields, sorry

Yeah I mean if a 500lb bomb landed on that militants head all those civilians would be safe because they are just around the corner!!!! :roll:

Check what he actually wrote my friend.

Yes I know what he wrote. Now tell me that the Israelis only use guns!!!!

Oh and anyway according to Wikipedia

The term "gun" is often used as a synonym to firearm, but in military usage the term refers only to artillery that fires projectiles at high velocity,

So as artillery fire can be termed gun fire I thnik you will find those civilains are not safe from gunfire. Small arms fire maybe, NOT gunfire!!

[Yrkoon]

programmusic wrote: Kinda makes it hard to avoid "civilian" casualties doesn't it. Also notice that the militant is wearing civilian clothing.





http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/060907/481/d5fb8724ed254cc48ac7a51cfa898da9

Bah. This is an NRA Rally.

Yes, lets condemn this "militant with a gun" and his fellow gun supporters.

[lilwolf]

Yrkoon wrote: programmusic wrote: Kinda makes it hard to avoid "civilian" casualties doesn't it. Also notice that the militant is wearing civilian clothing.





http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/060907/481/d5fb8724ed254cc48ac7a51cfa898da9

Bah. This is an NRA Rally.

Yes, lets condemn this "militant with a gun" and his fellow gun supporters.


This isn't an NRA rally my friend.....not at all. Those particular weapons are not street legal so it is not an NRA rally.

Condemn any terrorist that uses people as ashield and if that includes Hezbolla and about 3 dozen other organizations condemn them all.

[nrhy]

it´s funny how the chair is part of the image. Especially since he has his foot on it no? :lol: You guys really believe he is firing at israelis? Or simply demostrating the gun´s capabilities .

[MoscowMatt]

If he's firing at Israelis then the camera man sure is standing in a stupid place!!!!! :lol: :lol:

[superskippy]

It's a staged setting, they do hundreds of them for the media. It just looks very good on camera so they capture these fake videos for the media consumption. The only time you could ever beleive this is going on is when a situation goes from normal, to protest, to riot, to engagement. Then you might see civilians crowding around.

[Bezy41]

programmusic wrote: Kinda makes it hard to avoid "civilian" casualties doesn't it. Also notice that the militant is wearing civilian clothing.





http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/060907/481/d5fb8724ed254cc48ac7a51cfa898da9

that is one picture
how can you prove a point on that?

[programmusic]

Bezy41 wrote:
that is one picture
how can you prove a point on that?

here's another



and another



and another



another



and another


and another

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p6dWja_Q3g

[lilwolf]

nrhy wrote: it´s funny how the chair is part of the image. Especially since he has his foot on it no? :lol: You guys really believe he is firing at israelis? Or simply demostrating the gun´s capabilities .



Look closer his foot is not on the chair it is on the steps, and the chair os torn up.... :roll:

[Venom]

Quote: He is wearing military pants, that is not civilain clothing.

Furthermore, the civilians are safe from gunfire, as the are hiding around a corner out of the line of gunfire


this picture proves nothing of human shields, sorry

Fiction416
Hey the kid in the first picture is in camo pants I guess he is a uniformed military combatant?
As for the cargo pants, I guess anyone wearing them can be assumed to be part of a militant group and shot on sight. Thats your standard.... So if you believe it's uniform then they can give a kill anyone wearing them ROE.

Also you state that we are responsible for our own actions. Well didn't the Palestinians elect a well known terrorist group into their government? Yes I do agree we are responsible for our actions as is Palestine.


Also while each situation is subjective; there are some that are very common practice and this is of the Palestinians whom attack Israel hiding behind unarmed "civilians".

Also as for your patience, have you been in a war zone? How patient would you be when explosives are landing in your area and you do NOTHING about it?

Also you are biased about the subject. To claim that someone wearing cargo pants is a uniformed combatant is a joke. Also I'm sure those people are not in harms way, even though they lean to look around the wall and it's not like .50 cals go through walls and grenades, bombs and tanks are also stopped by walls I guess.

Nico
You say that Israeli's violence is useless against Palestine but go onto say respond in an equal manner. However you say you were in the military before and it makes a lot more sense from a military standpoint to use overwhelming force. As for opening airspace, well that opens a lot of ways for Israeli's to die from suicide attacks, etc. The ports is another means of getting weapons (as well as food and other commercial goods). So this isn't a viable option to Israel at this time. As it opens them up to a lot of attacks.

Quote: I hope that can be Israel, with a doctrine of Non-Violence, no matter what they are confronted with.
I'm sorry but this is absurd. If they took that doctrine they would be destroyed. You can play the moral leader card, which Israel is, however that does not make them any less moral to retaliate. In fact I believe it gives them greater morals, because it shows that you, as good men, do not stand idle while those whom wish only death act.

Saracen

Quote: Umm, Israel has been doing pretty much the same: they've been shelling the s**t out of Gaza for quite a while before Gilad Shalit got captured, and also flew their airplanes over Gaza as well.
They shelled Gaza when.... rockets from Gaza came into Israel. Funny how that works...



Quote: No. Make a new one: the previous peace settlements were farces.
Ok so you believe that every peace settlement was a farce, which there hasn't been peace yet, so you want to try it again? Why keep doing something that DOES NOT WORK?

Quote: Why not peace via truce? If Israel's existence is accepted, so should Palestine's. But then again, much of the Israeli government doesn't want that now, don't they?
There will be no truce, accept that fact. Do you honestly think if Israel was like Oh Palestine is a "real country" and Palestine did the same they would stop fighting? No.

Quote: And the thousands of Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails. The vast majority of which have probably had to do or themselves taken part in attacking Israel. I'm sure there are a few that are innocent, but isn't that true about US jails and jails around the world? Maybe we should release all of them too. Guess what the released prisoners would do... start fighting Israel again.

Quote: 5. Stop shooting


I think that's pretty much the same as number 1

And I think that's pretty unrealistic.

Quote: How do you know they don't want them? With Israel undermining Hamas, how could you expect Hamas to fill in to their demands? With the arrest of Hamas politicians and working with Fatah to undermine Hamas's rule, do you expect Hamas to accept the terms just like that? Hamas is a TERRORIST organization. Why would Israel not undermine a group that attacks them? How do you expect Hamas to accept the terms? Well I don't as they are extremists and want Israel destroyed.

Quote: How do you know Hamas wants war? They haven't said much but condemned the kidnapping of Gilad Shalit, and the kidnapping of the FOX NEWS journalists, etc. Israel has launched thousands of shells and rockets into Palestinian areas. If anything, the Palestinians have been too patient.
Hamas doesn't want a straight up war, they want a politcal war fought on the world stage all the while taking cheap shots at Israel and killing them as they get a chance.


Claudia Schiffer
Quote: I see Israel is trying to polish it's image, you think that's gonna make up for the 1300 Lebanese civilians killed during the last conflict? Think again!
Seriously this is your response? If anything comes out making the US/Israel look good its some faked photo, some conspiracy, or an outright lie. Funny how that works. However I guess we could check the 1300 Lebanese civilians killed and see if they are wearing the standard uniform of cargo pants and mark them down as combatants huh?

As for your videos, I watched parts of the first. The video goes along with the conspiracies that Bush blew up the WTC. I can only assume you believe that as well.

slitedeviance
Quote: Check what he actually wrote my friend.
That is the problem with his thinking and honestly yours slitedeviance. That is not how the real world works. They don't just use small caliber rifles, they use 500lb bombs, they use tanks, they use grenades, they use missiles, they use mortars, they use artillery and much more. Also just because they are a little bit behind the wall that does not even make them safe from small caliber rounds. They ricochet and also follow walls.

nrhy
No I don't think these particular pictures originally posted are real, however the ones posted again by programmmusic seem rather convincing as one shows a man actually firing his weapon.
[/b]

[skinn]

programmusic wrote: Bezy41 wrote:
that is one picture
how can you prove a point on that?

here's another



and another



and another



another



and another


and another

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p6dWja_Q3g

this is called resistance, when israeli troops and israeli tanks enter the streets of palestinian villages were children are playing.
Did you expect them to go to a desert while the israelis are inside their villages and inside their homes? They are defending their village, i wouldn't expect them to fight somewere else.

[Venom]

Skinn what does Israel fighting in villages and homes have to do with using a person as a shield? You know they know when Israel is coming and can get out of the area most of the time. Even if they cannot that doesn't make it excusable for Palestine to use them as shields.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ONKb9J2YeU&mode=related&search=

[skinn]

Venom wrote: Skinn what does Israel fighting in villages and homes have to do with using a person as a shield? You know they know when Israel is coming and can get out of the area most of the time. Even if they cannot that doesn't make it excusable for Palestine to use them as shields.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ONKb9J2YeU&mode=related&search=

those palestinians are inside their villages, inside their lands, they have the right to be were ever they want to be, they have the right to be in front of a fighter or behind him or next to him.
it's his land and the duty of every palestinian to defend it whether he was a civilian or a fighter, a child or an adult, with rocks or with guns, or simply with being present. in case of an aggression they are all resistance.
why don't you show us the other side of these pictures, the side were we see the israeli tanks and israeli troops inside the palestinian villages.

[programmusic]

skinn wrote: programmusic wrote: Bezy41 wrote:
that is one picture
how can you prove a point on that?

here's another



and another



and another



another



and another


and another

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p6dWja_Q3g

this is called resistance, when israeli troops and israeli tanks enter the streets of palestinian villages were children are playing.
Did you expect them to go to a desert while the israelis are inside their villages and inside their homes? They are defending their village, i wouldn't expect them to fight somewere else.

It seems you missed the point of the topic. The topic isn't "what are these people doing" the topic is "civilian shields" aka, why are the "militants" surrounded by "civilians" and children? This makes it hard to hit the militants and results in civilian casualties. It wouldn't be hard for the kids to move away from the fighting if they wanted to.

[skinn]

programmusic wrote: skinn wrote: programmusic wrote: Bezy41 wrote:
that is one picture
how can you prove a point on that?

here's another



and another



and another



another



and another


and another

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p6dWja_Q3g

this is called resistance, when israeli troops and israeli tanks enter the streets of palestinian villages were children are playing.
Did you expect them to go to a desert while the israelis are inside their villages and inside their homes? They are defending their village, i wouldn't expect them to fight somewere else.

It seems you missed the point of the topic. The topic isn't "what are these people doing" the topic is "civilian shields" aka, why are the "militants" surrounded by "civilians" and children? This makes it hard to hit the militants and results in civilian casualties. It wouldn't be hard for the kids to move away from the fighting if they wanted to.

those children and civilian are INSIDE their villages while the israelis are violating these villages.
these people have nothing to fear, they have nothing to live for other than mantaining their dignity, by standing infront of the aggressor with or wihout arm to tell him they are not affraid of him, and that they will always fight him until the last child with the last stone.

those are not sheilds those are humans resisting in their land, in their villages, facing the aggressor.
Until i see the militants putting children in bags carrying them around while fighting, i cannot see this as a human shield.

[maxr]

skinn wrote: programmusic wrote: Bezy41 wrote:
that is one picture
how can you prove a point on that?

here's another



and another



and another



another



and another


and another

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p6dWja_Q3g

this is called resistance, when israeli troops and israeli tanks enter the streets of palestinian villages were children are playing.
Did you expect them to go to a desert while the israelis are inside their villages and inside their homes? They are defending their village, i wouldn't expect them to fight somewere else.

Whats your problem man? Seriously your defense of these tactics is pitiful. Have you ever seen pictures of urban warfare?

Think about the Battle of Stalingrad, one of the most important urban battles of all time. There are literally thousands of photographs and video clips of events from that battle.

Now the Russians were fighting for their homeland and defending their own city just as you claim the Palestinians are, but when have you ever seen some Russian soldiers firing at the enemy, with a freaking mob of children and teenagers behind them? The Germans were in Russian citizens homes and villages, but somehow children and other noncombatants weren't walking around pointing and laughing during the middle of a firefight.

Either the kids and teens in those photos are retarded, or they're being exploited by the militants. Methinks it might be the latter.

[maxr]

skinn wrote: programmusic wrote: skinn wrote: programmusic wrote: Bezy41 wrote:
that is one picture
how can you prove a point on that?

here's another



and another



and another



another



and another


and another

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p6dWja_Q3g

this is called resistance, when israeli troops and israeli tanks enter the streets of palestinian villages were children are playing.
Did you expect them to go to a desert while the israelis are inside their villages and inside their homes? They are defending their village, i wouldn't expect them to fight somewere else.

It seems you missed the point of the topic. The topic isn't "what are these people doing" the topic is "civilian shields" aka, why are the "militants" surrounded by "civilians" and children? This makes it hard to hit the militants and results in civilian casualties. It wouldn't be hard for the kids to move away from the fighting if they wanted to.

those children and civilian are INSIDE their villages while the israelis are violating these villages.
these people have nothing to fear, they have nothing to live for other than mantaining their dignity, by standing infront of the aggressor with or wihout arm to tell him they are not affraid of him, and that they will always fight him until the last child with the last stone.

those are not sheilds those are humans resisting in their land, in their villages, facing the aggressor.
Until i see the militants putting children in bags carrying them around while fighting, i cannot see this as a human shield.

If you truly believe that don't ever complain when a Palestinian child dies, as according to you, they are legitimate soldiers.

[skinn]

maxr wrote: skinn wrote: programmusic wrote: Bezy41 wrote:
that is one picture
how can you prove a point on that?

here's another



and another



and another



another



and another


and another

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p6dWja_Q3g

this is called resistance, when israeli troops and israeli tanks enter the streets of palestinian villages were children are playing.
Did you expect them to go to a desert while the israelis are inside their villages and inside their homes? They are defending their village, i wouldn't expect them to fight somewere else.

Whats your problem man? Seriously your defense of these tactics is pitiful. Have you ever seen pictures of urban warfare?

Think about the Battle of Stalingrad, one of the most important urban battles of all time. There are literally thousands of photographs and video clips of events from that battle.

Now the Russians were fighting for their homeland and defending their own city just as you claim the Palestinians are, but when have you ever seen some Russian soldiers firing at the enemy, with a freaking mob of children and teenagers behind them? The Germans were in Russian citizens homes and villages, but somehow children and other noncombatants weren't walking around pointing and laughing during the middle of a firefight.

Either the kids and teens in those photos are retarded, or they're being exploited by the militants. Methinks it might be the latter.

what's pathetic is your blindness to israely crime and violation and occupation.
The palestinian situation differs enormously from the russian one, the rissians were stopping the germans, while the palestinians are occupied by the israelis, resulting in having no means to form any kind of army.