Political Crossfire Forums

democritic · Joined: 22 Jul 2006 Posts: 159 Location: Bay Area

So I debate politics a lot with my grandpa and 9/11 is one subject that we both can talk about for hours. I say that a lot of things went on that day that we the people dont know about and he says that there is no conspiracy etc. etc.

He got me this book today Debunking 9/11 Myths, Why Conspiracy Theories Can't Stand Up To the Facts

Its an in-depth investigation by Popular Mechanics magazine, and my grandpa says it is "objective" (and I say that nothing is objective but that is beside the point)

Anyway, I wanted to see if there was anyone here that has read it or knows anything about it so they could tell me if it's worth reading or not.

Here is a link to the book so you can see what I'm talkin about

www.amazon.com/Debunking-11-Myths-Conspiracy-Theories/dp/158816635X

and

www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html

Peace and Love always!
-Sean

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

Popular Mechanics is owned by Hearst Published, which you'll find in the Encyclopedia Britannica listed right next to "yellow journalism"..

It's amazing to me the full-court press the Establishment is making right now to counter the 9/11 Truth Movement..

We have these cowards on the run(!!!).. :-D

democritic · Joined: 22 Jul 2006 Posts: 159 Location: Bay Area

psholtz wrote: Popular Mechanics is owned by Hearst Published, which you'll find in the Encyclopedia Britannica listed right next to "yellow journalism"..

It's amazing to me the full-court press the Establishment is making right now to counter the 9/11 Truth Movement..

We have these cowards on the run(!!!).. :-D[/quote]

Haha yea i noticed the Hearst thing on the back of the book. That sorta scared me a little bit.

psholtz wrote:
It's amazing to me the full-court press the Establishment is making right now to counter the 9/11 Truth Movement..

We have these cowards on the run(!!!).. :-D

lmao

Revenant · Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 17848 Location: Bliss

Yes, more perspectives never hurt. You can disagree with them, but more information is never a bad thing.

democritic · Joined: 22 Jul 2006 Posts: 159 Location: Bay Area

Revenant wrote: Yes, more perspectives never hurt. You can disagree with them, but more information is never a bad thing.

Oh I'm going to read it no matter what, I just want to prepare

lol

IHateAmerica · Joined: 11 Feb 2006 Posts: 116

This is the samepopular mechanics that claims that there has only been one intrception of a civilian aircraft over the US, in the years prior to 911- Payne Stewart's. thats an outright lie.

Claudia Schiffer · Joined: 26 Jul 2006 Posts: 3234

psholtz wrote: Popular Mechanics is owned by Hearst Published, which you'll find in the Encyclopedia Britannica listed right next to "yellow journalism"..

It's amazing to me the full-court press the Establishment is making right now to counter the 9/11 Truth Movement..

We have these cowards on the run(!!!).. :-D

:lol: :lol: :lol: What's ''Yellow journalism''? :?

Patriot911 · Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Posts: 6937 Location: Denver, CO

It always amazes me that conspiracy theorists ONLY debunking of the Popular Mechanics articles is who it is owned by. They don't / can't debate the points they raise.

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

Patriot911 wrote: It always amazes me that conspiracy theorists ONLY debunking of the Popular Mechanics articles is who it is owned by. They don't / can't debate the points they raise.
Tell me the points that Popular Mechanics raises, and I'll be happy to debunk them.

This time, please don't spam the thread w/ the first 5,000 points that you find on some Web site. Instead, tell me one point that Popular Mechanics raises that you think is worth looking into, and we'll debate it. Once that's done, we'll move onto the next point, and so on..

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

Claudia Schiffer wrote: psholtz wrote: Popular Mechanics is owned by Hearst Published, which you'll find in the Encyclopedia Britannica listed right next to "yellow journalism"..

It's amazing to me the full-court press the Establishment is making right now to counter the 9/11 Truth Movement..

We have these cowards on the run(!!!).. :-D

:lol: :lol: :lol: What's ''Yellow journalism''? :?
It's when a newspaper or magazine publishes blatant lies to scare the public into supporting a war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_journalism

Hearst Publishing invented it in its modern form during the Spanish-American War..

Popular Mechanics is carrying on this proud tradition today..

Patriot911 · Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Posts: 6937 Location: Denver, CO

psholtz wrote: Claudia Schiffer wrote: psholtz wrote: Popular Mechanics is owned by Hearst Published, which you'll find in the Encyclopedia Britannica listed right next to "yellow journalism"..

It's amazing to me the full-court press the Establishment is making right now to counter the 9/11 Truth Movement..

We have these cowards on the run(!!!).. :-D

:lol: :lol: :lol: What's ''Yellow journalism''? :?
It's when a newspaper or magazine publishes blatant lies to scare the public into supporting a war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_journalism

Hearst Publishing invented it in its modern form during the Spanish-American War..

Popular Mechanics is carrying on this proud tradition today..

So because Hearst did it back in the 1800s, they MUST still be doing it? :roll:

Show me one example of "yellow journalism" Popular Mechanics has been accused of other than this aricle. Your accusations ring hollow.

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

Patriot911 wrote: psholtz wrote: Claudia Schiffer wrote: psholtz wrote: Popular Mechanics is owned by Hearst Published, which you'll find in the Encyclopedia Britannica listed right next to "yellow journalism"..

It's amazing to me the full-court press the Establishment is making right now to counter the 9/11 Truth Movement..

We have these cowards on the run(!!!).. :-D

:lol: :lol: :lol: What's ''Yellow journalism''? :?
It's when a newspaper or magazine publishes blatant lies to scare the public into supporting a war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_journalism

Hearst Publishing invented it in its modern form during the Spanish-American War..

Popular Mechanics is carrying on this proud tradition today..

So because Hearst did it back in the 1800s, they MUST still be doing it? :roll:
Old habits die hard..

Quote: Show me one example of "yellow journalism" Popular Mechanics has been accused of other than this aricle.
So you admit this Popular Mechanics article is just a yellow journalism hit piece? :-D

Patriot911 · Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Posts: 6937 Location: Denver, CO

psholtz wrote: Patriot911 wrote: psholtz wrote: Claudia Schiffer wrote: psholtz wrote: Popular Mechanics is owned by Hearst Published, which you'll find in the Encyclopedia Britannica listed right next to "yellow journalism"..

It's amazing to me the full-court press the Establishment is making right now to counter the 9/11 Truth Movement..

We have these cowards on the run(!!!).. :-D

:lol: :lol: :lol: What's ''Yellow journalism''? :?
It's when a newspaper or magazine publishes blatant lies to scare the public into supporting a war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_journalism

Hearst Publishing invented it in its modern form during the Spanish-American War..

Popular Mechanics is carrying on this proud tradition today..

So because Hearst did it back in the 1800s, they MUST still be doing it? :roll:
Old habits die hard..

Quote: Show me one example of "yellow journalism" Popular Mechanics has been accused of other than this aricle.
So you admit this Popular Mechanics article is just a yellow journalism hit piece? :-D

:roll: Is that the best you can do, Psholtz? Given your past performance I would guess that it is. If I hadn't excluded the PM piece on 9/11 you would have pointed to that as yellow journalism, so I excluded it from your selection. Don't tell me you wouldn't have stooped to such an obvious cheap shot as you just proven nothing is beneath you by asking if I thought the 9/11 piece was yellow journalism. Your ethics leave a lot to be desired.

Old habits die hard? WHO'S habits? Think there is ANYONE still working at Hearst that was even ALIVE when the Spanish American war broke out in 1898?!? Corporations aren't human beings, they are run by human beings.

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

Patriot911 wrote: Corporations aren't human beings, they are run by human beings.
According to Santa Clara County v. Union Pacific Railroad, corporations certainly have personhood the same way a human being does. Hale v. Henkel later reversed some of those decisions, though..

Patriot911 · Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Posts: 6937 Location: Denver, CO

psholtz wrote: Patriot911 wrote: Corporations aren't human beings, they are run by human beings.
According to Santa Clara County v. Union Pacific Railroad, corporations certainly have personhood the same way a human being does. Hale v. Henkel later reversed some of those decisions, though..

So how does a corporation like Hearst retain this personhood when they've gone through several generations of workers and management? Face it, your claim is bogus as usual.

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

Patriot911 wrote: psholtz wrote: Patriot911 wrote: Corporations aren't human beings, they are run by human beings.
According to Santa Clara County v. Union Pacific Railroad, corporations certainly have personhood the same way a human being does. Hale v. Henkel later reversed some of those decisions, though..

So how does a corporation like Hearst retain this personhood when they've gone through several generations of workers and management? Face it, your claim is bogus as usual.
Are you saying that Santa Clara County v. Union Pacific Railroad is a conspiracy theory? :rotf:

Patriot911 · Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Posts: 6937 Location: Denver, CO

psholtz wrote: Patriot911 wrote: psholtz wrote: Patriot911 wrote: Corporations aren't human beings, they are run by human beings.
According to Santa Clara County v. Union Pacific Railroad, corporations certainly have personhood the same way a human being does. Hale v. Henkel later reversed some of those decisions, though..

So how does a corporation like Hearst retain this personhood when they've gone through several generations of workers and management? Face it, your claim is bogus as usual.
Are you saying that Santa Clara County v. Union Pacific Railroad is a conspiracy theory? :rotf:

No, I am saying your claim that Hearst is still practicing yellow journalism because they did it over a hundred years ago is bogus. Learn how to read.

psholtz · Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 23468 Location: California

Patriot911 wrote: psholtz wrote: Patriot911 wrote: psholtz wrote: Patriot911 wrote: Corporations aren't human beings, they are run by human beings.
According to Santa Clara County v. Union Pacific Railroad, corporations certainly have personhood the same way a human being does. Hale v. Henkel later reversed some of those decisions, though..

So how does a corporation like Hearst retain this personhood when they've gone through several generations of workers and management? Face it, your claim is bogus as usual.
Are you saying that Santa Clara County v. Union Pacific Railroad is a conspiracy theory? :rotf:

No, I am saying your claim that Hearst is still practicing yellow journalism because they did it over a hundred years ago is bogus. Learn how to read.
You think yellow journalism doesn't exist anymore??..:rotf:

Look, it worked back in the Spanish-American War, it worked in WWI, and it's worked in ever war since. The general rule of thumb is that if something works, you keep doing it until it stops working. Granted - we might be seeing it *stop* working now, since now - for the first time in modern history - the lies that the USG told to drag us into the Iraq War have been exposed EVEN BEFORE THE WAR HAS ENDED..

NAB · Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:59 am Post subject:

If anyone is interested in a 911 debunking book (although it wasn't written with that intention) check out "Ghost Wars" by Stephen Coll. It's a well researched book on the history of Afghanistan from 1979 to 2001. It will debunk the theories on OBL being a CIA agent, and also how AQ came into being and eventually planned 911. It will also give some interesting insight into how the CIA really works and how they aren't an all knowing/all planning organization. This book is a very unbiased and balanced account.

I give it a big thumbs up. It's the best book I've read on that particular period/region. Ghost Wars

Patriot911 · Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Posts: 6937 Location: Denver, CO

Yellow journalism doesn't exist like it existed back then and it is getting SO much harder to practice now that we have open communication over the Internet as lies and false statements can be instantly communicated. Take for instance the CBS attempt to post a false memo. Before blogs they would have gotten away with it.

Regardless, my point still stands. Dismissing the PM article because of what happened 100 years ago is intellectually dishonest. If it is wrong you should be able to point out the lies and debunk the article on the article's merits. You can't do that so you go after the parent company of a respected magazine order to discredit the magazine. That is both childish and a clear indication that you are unable to conclusively discuss WHY the PM article is wrong.