Political Crossfire Forums

[Saracen]

the sane voice wrote: thats sound like an excuse.but then again its all depends on the context isnt it.

It's not an excuse. The context of the hadith in your signature is that the Muslims are fighting in a war against the Jews and the Anti-Christ. But what Jews? If you take a look at the links I presented, it's obvious that these Jews are Zionists. Therefore, it's not con-specific. And what Zionists, exactly? Zionists who are fighting against Muslims.

[the sane voice]

Saracen wrote: the sane voice wrote: thats sound like an excuse.but then again its all depends on the context isnt it.

It's not an excuse. The context of the hadith in your signature is that the Muslims are fighting in a war against the Jews and the Anti-Christ. But what Jews? If you take a look at the links I presented, it's obvious that these Jews are Zionists. Therefore, it's not con-specific. And what Zionists, exactly? Zionists who are fighting against Muslims.
ho now its sounds right.more or less.still its very obvious whats its says.
for the record.im a zionist-i will fight anyone who will come to fight me.
i have a right to exist.

[nrhy]

Quote: ho now its sounds right.more or less.still its very obvious whats its says.
for the record.im a zionist-i will fight anyone who will come to fight me.
i have a right to exist.

couldn´t you have picked a better spot to exist?

[the sane voice]

nrhy wrote: Quote: ho now its sounds right.more or less.still its very obvious whats its says.
for the record.im a zionist-i will fight anyone who will come to fight me.
i have a right to exist.

couldn´t you have picked a better spot to exist?
no.couldnt you?

[Venom]

Plato
Palestinians are daying at a faster rate than the people of Israel? Hrmm well that has absolutely nothing to do with whom is wrong in the situation. If three bad guys attack a police station killing one cop but resulting in their three deaths I guess that means the cops are the agressive force? No, but your line of thinking seems to think so. So if you want to make an argument don't throw out a number game where the numbers show absolutely nothing to the argument. :roll:

The also you talk about controlling territory, well has given back land to Palestine but that has NOT stop any aggression from them at all. So why would giving all of "their" land back make them less aggressive. Oh wait because their goal is to kill all of the jews..

It's pretty black and white. The terrorists want to kill people in some religious crusade of theirs versus any that is not a devoted muslim by their standard.

Also you refuse to believe in anti-semitism apparently in the Arab world. I guess there wasn't racism in America right? Hrmm that silly Martin Luther King Jr. and his speeches.. Sometimes the obvious thing is the right thing Plato.

Saracen
If your religion calls for the end of Israel and Isreal is full of Jews that is going to make you pretty much anti-Semitic in my eyes. Look at your IslamOnline quote... "O Muslim, O slave of Allah, here is a jew, come and kill him!"
As for the person being the anti-Christ of your religion that is up for debate cause couldn't that be the return of Jesus in Christianity which would make him evil to your religion's eyes.

[Saracen]

Venom wrote: If your religion calls for the end of Israel and Isreal is full of Jews that is going to make you pretty much anti-Semitic in my eyes. Look at your IslamOnline quote... "O Muslim, O slave of Allah, here is a jew, come and kill him!"

That's assuming that Israel is the sole representative of the Jewish state. There are many anti-Zionist Jews out there who want no association whatsoever with the Zionist state. The quote is taken in the context of the battle mentioned, or didn't you know that?

Quote: As for the person being the anti-Christ of your religion that is up for debate cause couldn't that be the return of Jesus in Christianity which would make him evil to your religion's eyes.

No. We believe that Jesus is good, and the question of the Messiah of the Jews, or Christians, or Muslims remains cloudy. Some Jews say that their Messiah is the same as that of the Muslims (anti-Zionist Jews, that is). The same goes for some Christians, more likely to be Roman Catholics or Eastern (Orthodox) Christians). Others disagree. The question, therefore, is obscured.

the sane voice wrote: ho now its sounds right.more or less.still its very obvious whats its says.

No, it isn't. Read the context, if you can understand it. For example, let's say you heard someone say that he wants to kill the city's mayor. You might think the man is a murderer. However, unravel the thing a bit, and you might find that the mayor ruined the man's life, killed and raped his wife, among other incidences. In this context, the Jews who will be killed are those Zionists who fight against the Muslims.

Quote: for the record.im a zionist-i will fight anyone who will come to fight me.

Okay...

Quote: i have a right to exist.

Everyone does. Better yet, no one has the right to exist because they just do. But everyone has a right to maintain his or her existence. ;)

[the sane voice]

do you have a source that support your claims?
or its only your interpretion?

[Saracen]

the sane voice wrote: do you have a source that support your claims?
or its only your interpretion?

I already presented them via links. Scroll back to my previous posts that I made today.

[superskippy]

Quote: That's assuming that Israel is the sole representative of the Jewish state. There are many anti-Zionist Jews out there who want no association whatsoever with the Zionist state.

Save for a few communities of Jews and a few thousand here and there world wide Israel is in fact the sole representative of Jewish people. As for their being many Anti-Zionists Jews there are some not many. You will be hardpressed in every day life to find a Jew that didnt support the creation of the state of Israel and also supports that state contuing to be.

[Saracen]

superskippy wrote: Save for a few communities of Jews and a few thousand here and there world wide Israel is in fact the sole representative of Jewish people. As for their being many Anti-Zionists Jews there are some not many. You will be hardpressed in every day life to find a Jew that didnt support the creation of the state of Israel and also supports that state contuing to be.

Okay... Let's move on to something else. Let's say that Israel AT ITS CURRENT LOCATION is removed. Does that mean that Israel is gone forever? No. It means that you can make an Israel somewhere else.

Sorry for the harsh example, but I'm trying to make a point. :lol:

[the sane voice]

Saracen wrote: the sane voice wrote: do you have a source that support your claims?
or its only your interpretion?

I already presented them via links. Scroll back to my previous posts that I made today.
you know- i read it again,and still from what i understood it never said kill only the 7000 jews-its says,kill the jews.

[superskippy]

Quote: Okay... Let's move on to something else. Let's say that Israel AT ITS CURRENT LOCATION is removed. Does that mean that Israel is gone forever? No. It means that you can make an Israel somewhere else.

This land is the historical Israel, the Kingdoms of Judea and such. We could say the same for you, you could create Palestine in some African country that would easily have territory carved out of it for Palestine. Would you still exist, of course!

Does my example prove anything more than yours does? Would you consent to relocating Palestine?

[danadleman]

Predictably, some people chose to read my article as promoting Hezbollah. Never did I make any ethical judgements about Hezbollah. Morever, I mentioned Hezbollah's social wing not because I wanted to paint these guys as good people (or Israelis and Americans as bad) but to show what an integral part of the Lebanese social fabric Hezbollah is. The main thrust of my article was to illustrate that it is foolhardy for Israel to go after Hezbollah for the same reason that the US can't hope to achieve its objectives in Iraq and Afghanistan. All the magical thinking in the world won't force the Middle East to conform to the US's and Israel's untenable narcissistic projects.

[Pareve]

To be honest, I don't care what the Hadith says. It is irrelevant to my life. What is relevant is when religion is treated the same way as secular law... They are, and should remain as separate as possible. Otherwise, you have people saying things like, "killing Zionist Jews is justified!"

For the record, I am a Zionist Jew. Would you kill me? I give money to plant trees in Israel every year. Some of my relatives were original settlers, carving farms out of the desert. One great uncle started a kibbutz. I am very proud of him, and his convictions, although he is no longer with us.

Saracen, I understand that you care about your culture and religion. I care about my culture and religion too. However, something is very, very, very wrong when you try to justify a defence of murder, even if the person to be murdered is allegedly a bad person. It is even worse when the idea is translated into real-world policy.

[skinn]

nrhy wrote: Quote: ho now its sounds right.more or less.still its very obvious whats its says.
for the record.im a zionist-i will fight anyone who will come to fight me.
i have a right to exist.

couldn´t you have picked a better spot to exist?

:lol:

[skinn]

superskippy wrote: Quote: Okay... Let's move on to something else. Let's say that Israel AT ITS CURRENT LOCATION is removed. Does that mean that Israel is gone forever? No. It means that you can make an Israel somewhere else.

This land is the historical Israel, the Kingdoms of Judea and such. We could say the same for you, you could create Palestine in some African country that would easily have territory carved out of it for Palestine. Would you still exist, of course!

Does my example prove anything more than yours does? Would you consent to relocating Palestine?

palestine is already relocated, and by force.

[superskippy]

I would disagree.

[nrhy]

the sane voice wrote: nrhy wrote: Quote: ho now its sounds right.more or less.still its very obvious whats its says.
for the record.im a zionist-i will fight anyone who will come to fight me.
i have a right to exist.

couldn´t you have picked a better spot to exist?
no.couldnt you?

we happened to be there for thousands of years...european jews belong in europe.

[superskippy]

Oh? So if time is a matter of who belongs where then we should certaintly have our right to be in Israel.

[nrhy]

superskippy wrote: Oh? So if time is a matter of who belongs where then we should certaintly have our right to be in Israel.


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