Political Crossfire Forums

Eternal · Joined: 29 Mar 2005 Posts: 2049 Location: Somewhere

Gilbert1908 wrote: My offering is not dependent on circumstances, but truth, there is fine but important difference.

I am saying two things, one the Capn can not disagree with one he may.

Only God can determine sin and punishment and sin is based upon intent. If mere words and even actions are meaningless in your salvation I fail to see how they could apply to your damnation. And I think you will find that the Capn would probably agree. Faith is NOT about words or actions it is about faith and one neither creates or denies the truth of faith with words.

I agree with your point that in the context of Christian theology it's the intent not the deed that will be judged. But what I'm examining is the rational underlying the intent, which is about salvation and being kept from the fires of hell. I've no doubt that many Christians are being honest when they confess love towards their God and Jesus. But given the consequences of getting on Gods bad side, how true can that love really be?

Cheers, Eternal

Gilbert1908 · Joined: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 5209 Location: Boston, MA

Eternal wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: My offering is not dependent on circumstances, but truth, there is fine but important difference.

I am saying two things, one the Capn can not disagree with one he may.

Only God can determine sin and punishment and sin is based upon intent. If mere words and even actions are meaningless in your salvation I fail to see how they could apply to your damnation. And I think you will find that the Capn would probably agree. Faith is NOT about words or actions it is about faith and one neither creates or denies the truth of faith with words.

I agree with your point that in the context of Christian theology it's the intent not the deed that will be judged. But what I'm examining is the rational underlying the intent, which is about salvation and being kept from the fires of hell. I've no doubt that many Christians are being honest when they confess love towards their God and Jesus. But given the consequences of getting on Gods bad side, how true can that love really be?

Cheers, Eternal

It is a great question that each of us must constantly ask ourselves.

Not only the Christian but we all must constantly ask ourselves the very question you pose, since love out of self interest is not love.

eynon · Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:16 pm Post subject:

Shady wrote: wannabe wrote: Shady wrote: wannabe wrote: Babylon_Horuv wrote: LostSoul3412 wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: I'd rather die...

Agreed. To lose faith is to lose a part of life.

Shady wrote: But would you sacrifice your family? Your friends? Do you have the right to determine their fates?

This, however, would be the exception. I would sacrifice my life for those I love.

yes, but would you sacrifice your faith?

how can you? :-|

For the life of your family?

just because I throw some incense on the alter of Ceaser to save my family from execution does not mean I've sacrificed my faith.......no-one can make you do that.

I see your point, but that's not really the question here. Would you pretend to follow another religion to save your family and friends?

hmmm.....tricky......if I could practice my truth faith in secret and my false faith didn't consume much of my life(as in I had to sacrifice to Ceaser once and month or something) then yeah, I'd do it to protect those I loved.

Shady · Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 7413 Location: VA

wannabe wrote: Shady wrote: wannabe wrote: Shady wrote: wannabe wrote: Babylon_Horuv wrote: LostSoul3412 wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: I'd rather die...

Agreed. To lose faith is to lose a part of life.

Shady wrote: But would you sacrifice your family? Your friends? Do you have the right to determine their fates?

This, however, would be the exception. I would sacrifice my life for those I love.

yes, but would you sacrifice your faith?

how can you? :-|

For the life of your family?

just because I throw some incense on the alter of Ceaser to save my family from execution does not mean I've sacrificed my faith.......no-one can make you do that.

I see your point, but that's not really the question here. Would you pretend to follow another religion to save your family and friends?

hmmm.....tricky......if I could practice my truth faith in secret and my false faith didn't consume much of my life(as in I had to sacrifice to Ceaser once and month or something) then yeah, I'd do it to protect those I loved.

All right, thanks, that's what I was asking. I think that's a reasonable PoV as well.

toddytodd · Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 2736

Eternal wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: My offering is not dependent on circumstances, but truth, there is fine but important difference.

I am saying two things, one the Capn can not disagree with one he may.

Only God can determine sin and punishment and sin is based upon intent. If mere words and even actions are meaningless in your salvation I fail to see how they could apply to your damnation. And I think you will find that the Capn would probably agree. Faith is NOT about words or actions it is about faith and one neither creates or denies the truth of faith with words.

I agree with your point that in the context of Christian theology it's the intent not the deed that will be judged. But what I'm examining is the rational underlying the intent, which is about salvation and being kept from the fires of hell. I've no doubt that many Christians are being honest when they confess love towards their God and Jesus. But given the consequences of getting on Gods bad side, how true can that love really be?

Cheers, Eternal
Personally, I would hope that eventually christians do good things for God and love God because they want to, even though it might have been a selfish start to their new lifestyle in the first place (accepting God to avoid hell).

connermt · Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 1526 Location: CMH OHIO

Gilbert1908 wrote: Eternal wrote: Gilbert1908 wrote: My offering is not dependent on circumstances, but truth, there is fine but important difference.

I am saying two things, one the Capn can not disagree with one he may.

Only God can determine sin and punishment and sin is based upon intent. If mere words and even actions are meaningless in your salvation I fail to see how they could apply to your damnation. And I think you will find that the Capn would probably agree. Faith is NOT about words or actions it is about faith and one neither creates or denies the truth of faith with words.

I agree with your point that in the context of Christian theology it's the intent not the deed that will be judged. But what I'm examining is the rational underlying the intent, which is about salvation and being kept from the fires of hell. I've no doubt that many Christians are being honest when they confess love towards their God and Jesus. But given the consequences of getting on Gods bad side, how true can that love really be?

Cheers, Eternal

It is a great question that each of us must constantly ask ourselves.

Not only the Christian but we all must constantly ask ourselves the very question you pose, since love out of self interest is not love.
Love out of self interest is not love? How do you figure? Is it not love or not the correct KIND of love?

MKSWEO · Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 32

God comes before the self, before the family, before friends etc.
Your love for god is judged by him alone.

toddytodd · Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 2736

MKSWEO wrote: God comes before the self, before the family, before friends etc.
Your love for god is judged by him alone.

Perhaps, but just because one loves God doesn't mean they can't love them self, family friends, etc.

MKSWEO · Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 32

toddytodd wrote: MKSWEO wrote: God comes before the self, before the family, before friends etc.
Your love for god is judged by him alone.

Perhaps, but just because one loves God doesn't mean they can't love them self, family friends, etc.

totally agree Mr. Todd
I love myself everynight... :wink: :wink:
just kidding. I understand what you mean.
Its another one of those what is "love" questions too, and how do you define love.

LetsGetReal · Joined: 26 Aug 2004 Posts: 5791 Location: Peoria, AZ

MKSWEO wrote: toddytodd wrote: MKSWEO wrote: God comes before the self, before the family, before friends etc.
Your love for god is judged by him alone.

Perhaps, but just because one loves God doesn't mean they can't love them self, family friends, etc.

totally agree Mr. Todd
I love myself everynight... :wink: :wink:
just kidding. I understand what you mean.
Its another one of those what is "love" questions too, and how do you define love. Welcome and I'm glad you came to the site. :hi:

MKSWEO · Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 32

[quote="LetsGetReal]Welcome and I'm glad you came to the site. :hi:[/quote]

Thanks! Hope to see your guys daily! :)

Anti-Spearsy · Joined: 01 Sep 2006 Posts: 67

I pretend to be christian when I go on church trips...

Heheheh, fooled THEM...

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Anti-Spearsy wrote: I pretend to be christian when I go on church trips...

Heheheh, fooled THEM...

You're the one going on the church trip.

:lol:

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Worshiping false gods is worshiping false gods.

If you think it will help you, go right ahead.

But...
I would never pretend to adopt another religion to save my neck. The Bible tells us we will come to this choice, and it tells us what to do in that situation. And it tells us the consequence of making the wrong choice.

Trying to make Christianity palatable to heathens by attempting to make it conform to their reason does not advance the cause of Christianity. It advances the cause of heathenism at Christianity's expense.

Shady · Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 7413 Location: VA

cap'n queasy wrote: Worshiping false gods is worshiping false gods.

If you think it will help you, go right ahead.

But...
I would never pretend to adopt another religion to save my neck. The Bible tells us we will come to this choice, and it tells us what to do in that situation. And it tells us the consequence of making the wrong choice.

Trying to make Christianity palatable to heathens by attempting to make it conform to their reason does not advance the cause of Christianity. It advances the cause of heathenism at Christianity's expense.

You would never pretend to adopt religion to save someone else? Your wife and kids maybe?

LetsGetReal · Joined: 26 Aug 2004 Posts: 5791 Location: Peoria, AZ

Shady wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Worshiping false gods is worshiping false gods.

If you think it will help you, go right ahead.

But...
I would never pretend to adopt another religion to save my neck. The Bible tells us we will come to this choice, and it tells us what to do in that situation. And it tells us the consequence of making the wrong choice.

Trying to make Christianity palatable to heathens by attempting to make it conform to their reason does not advance the cause of Christianity. It advances the cause of heathenism at Christianity's expense.

You would never pretend to adopt religion to save someone else? Your wife and kids maybe? Stop placing the burden on him, his actions are not bringing about the loss of his family or wife in this ridiculous hypothetical question. The burden is on the murders!! They kill, they harm, they do everything. He has no control over anything, but yet you try to portray he does. So I ask again stop with this nonsense, unless the make believe is your reality.

Shady · Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 7413 Location: VA

LetsGetReal wrote: Shady wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Worshiping false gods is worshiping false gods.

If you think it will help you, go right ahead.

But...
I would never pretend to adopt another religion to save my neck. The Bible tells us we will come to this choice, and it tells us what to do in that situation. And it tells us the consequence of making the wrong choice.

Trying to make Christianity palatable to heathens by attempting to make it conform to their reason does not advance the cause of Christianity. It advances the cause of heathenism at Christianity's expense.

You would never pretend to adopt religion to save someone else? Your wife and kids maybe? Stop placing the burden on him, his actions are not bringing about the loss of his family or wife in this ridiculous hypothetical question. The burden is on the murders!! They kill, they harm, they do everything. He has no control over anything, but yet you try to portray he does. So I ask again stop with this nonsense, unless the make believe is your reality.

It's unlikely he'll ever be in a situation where he will be forced to recant his beliefs. Why is my hypothetical any more ridiculous. I'm not absolving the murderers of anything, I'm asking would he pretend to adopt another faith to stop them from killing his wife and kids? That's it.

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

Face it. The only way to get rid of Christians is to kill them. And we are not going to fight back.

God will do our fighting for us.

cap'n queasy · Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 34968

The line in the sand is drawn, step over it at your own risk.

LetsGetReal · Joined: 26 Aug 2004 Posts: 5791 Location: Peoria, AZ

Shady wrote: LetsGetReal wrote: Shady wrote: cap'n queasy wrote: Worshiping false gods is worshiping false gods.

If you think it will help you, go right ahead.

But...
I would never pretend to adopt another religion to save my neck. The Bible tells us we will come to this choice, and it tells us what to do in that situation. And it tells us the consequence of making the wrong choice.

Trying to make Christianity palatable to heathens by attempting to make it conform to their reason does not advance the cause of Christianity. It advances the cause of heathenism at Christianity's expense.

You would never pretend to adopt religion to save someone else? Your wife and kids maybe? Stop placing the burden on him, his actions are not bringing about the loss of his family or wife in this ridiculous hypothetical question. The burden is on the murders!! They kill, they harm, they do everything. He has no control over anything, but yet you try to portray he does. So I ask again stop with this nonsense, unless the make believe is your reality.

It's unlikely he'll ever be in a situation where he will be forced to recant his beliefs. Why is my hypothetical any more ridiculous. I'm not absolving the murderers of anything, I'm asking would he pretend to adopt another faith to stop them from killing his wife and kids? That's it. What he does is not wrong, what they do is plain and simple. Stop trying to make it look otherwise....